Implemented Maximum Mass limit.

[SuperWookie]

Its not all that easy for me though, I personally feel that titans are too time consuming in terms of resources and credits, When this is a game and games should be about competitive fun, not building massive ships that if destroyed will utterly bring you to tears. Plus i've never built a titan really, I kinda have ADD which means if it takes more than two or three hours i get bored of it. So yes my singleplayer games are riddles with unfinished hulks.

So because you can't or don't want to build a large ship, no one else should be able to either?

Rant is over now dont worry, What im suggesting is a maximum stable mass limit on ships, If you build any larger then you ship will be suddenly racked by "Structural Failures" Meaning that the ship cannot support all that mass, And will start to disintegrate unless you remove the offending blocks.

This should hopefully reduce the size of these ships and encourage smaller less laggy and more nimble builds.

Have you not watched any Scifi shows or played any space games? A lot of ships in those are bloody huge, bigger than what I think we'll ever see in Starmade. I don't see them falling apart because of structural failures due to being too big. There's a fine line between realism and fun, and even then we have to consider that technology and science is far more advanced in these shows and games meaning physics as we know today could be completely different.

 

[Daniel L.]

So because you can't or don't want to build a large ship, no one else should be able to either?

No! i was using myself as an example, I have nothing against a large what i have against is the construction of ships so big they break the game and kill everything around! Titans are too large! The mass limit i proposed would shrink the classification of ships, Being able to kill everything instantly and rule the roost with little effort or strategy at all is not a fair fight, it is little more than griefing!

 

[SuperWookie]

No! i was using myself as an example, I have nothing against a large what i have against is the construction of ships so big they break the game and kill everything around! Titans are too large! The mass limit i proposed would shrink the classification of ships, Being able to kill everything instantly and rule the roost with little effort or strategy at all is not a fair fight, it is little more than griefing!

Optimization to allow for larger ships with less lag is the best way to go with Starmade. I've dominated a couple of servers in my time playing and let me tell you it is not "little effort or strategy". Just building my Templar titan took months (not to mention the multiple times I've had to redo it because of updates), weeks of grinding for resources, all while being attacked by our enemies. But slowly with tactic and number we started winning battles, pushing them back, and eventually we became the most powerful faction. Nothing died instantly, we were up against ships the same size as our own, and it was definitely not griefing.

 

[Winterhome]

As the (temporarily on-break) coleader of a pretty major faction that doesn't use titans if it can be helped (we prefer the 250k-1mil block range), I would be very, very disappointed in schine were they to implement a serverwide default mass limit.

The game is intended to scale upwards indefinitely.

If you don't like that people are able to make and use titans, then go out and destroy everybody that's mining planets so much that it's impossible for anyone to make one.

Massive battles are also a really, really big draw to the game - so restricting large battles just so some derpy asteroid miner can function at 100% effectiveness rather than 60% is a no-go.

 

[Sgtwisky]

Really like that ship SuperWookie. I think I have a few ideas to incorporate into some of my builds from the way you use light!

Somewhat on topic. I don't consider that ship a "Titan" I consider it more along the lines of a large expensive battle ship (Or dreadnought or whatever people want to call it). As for titans, I think they are at least 4x that mass. AND.... titans don't lag nearly as much if they don't have stupid amounts of turrets. Fewer well made and well placed turrets can do just as well as many spammed junk turrets.

Another point to keep in mind is the server hardware your playing on. This game requires a lot from servers. SO If the server is on the low or medium end, its not going to play well with larger ships. It also wont play well with large numbers of small ships. I can say that Ive crashed my game due to too many small ships.... It takes a massive amount... I had around 300 small ships and a few large turret defense ships (lots of lag inducing turrets). The only reason my computer failed was that the room got too hot for my cooling to keep up.

IF I were in a better environment my PC would likely have chugged on without much notice. I say all that to point out, servers should be built better then high end gaming rigs. If they are not, then ether the server admin is going really cheep with the hosting company, OR they built/rented a low spec dedicated server rig. Part of the blame of all the lag for titan ships is also on server admins(at least some of the time).

As for the super titans.... I've never actually seen them used on PvP servers.

 

[SuperWookie]

Somewhat on topic. I don't consider that ship a "Titan" I consider it more along the lines of a large expensive battle ship (Or dreadnought or whatever people want to call it). As for titans, I think they are at least 4x that mass. AND.... titans don't lag nearly as much if they don't have stupid amounts of turrets. Fewer well made and well placed turrets can do just as well as many spammed junk turrets.

Yeah its all about opinion with the classifications, to me its a Titan and bigger ships would be Deus and Mothership class, but either way its still a big ship :D

 

[DeltaEpsilon7787]

The Gigantism Problem is a balance issue. You are fighting effects, not causes. This was already stated billion times and I am not going to repeat it.

 

[Blaza612]

Seriously, this is terrible. It can be useful and generally a good idea, but the justification justifies the above meme.

Gigantism isn't something that calls for a hard cap to fix, (which will ultimately cause more problems than solve), rather, it calls for the economy to fix itself, which is PLANNED as a part of the future empiric factions. I've said this before, titans will soon require the entire efforts of an empire, having to deal in trade with others in order to get the resources, and dedicating all of your workforce to make it (I imagine that this is how it'd go). Gigantism is a temporary problem that is being ironed out, and not only that, but it isn't even that big of a problem.

A 5km carrier would still be possible, Note the "Mass" limit not size, If you build it with metal mesh then it will easily fit within the limit

I'm not going to post the image again, but seriously, no. If I want to build a 5km carrier, then I shouldn't have to build it in METAL MESH. Seriously, that's just terrible, take it out back and shoot it already.

 

[Promethesus]

Im all for gigantism, but im not .
In this video, i am showing 3 full scale venator class cruisers, surlassing 1,000meters.

What would be considered a titan? Because with upcoming systems, my venators have hallways, hangars, and other systems already inplemented into their hull.
The venator shrugs off 100+ pirates with superior shielding, only issue are my turrets which require some time to eliminate the pirates with little to no problems. ( not enough turrets nor strong enough to 1 hit, but 2-4 hit)

 

[SuperWookie]

Im all for gigantism, but im not .
In this video, i am showing 3 full scale venator class cruisers, surlassing 1,000meters.

What would be considered a titan? Because with upcoming systems, my venators have hallways, hangars, and other systems already inplemented into their hull.
The venator shrugs off 100+ pirates with superior shielding, only issue are my turrets which require some time to eliminate the pirates with little to no problems. ( not enough turrets nor strong enough to 1 hit, but 2-4 hit)

Would love to see a 1v1 battle with your Venator against Skylords when its complete :D

 

[Promethesus]

Would love to see a 1v1 battle with your Venator against Skylords when its complete :D

Depends on how close he followed thr venator design.
All weapon systems are following the actual venator weapon systems. But if needed i can make OP ass weapons too

 

[Gonzalo]

Seriously, this is terrible. It can be useful and generally a good idea, but the justification justifies the above meme.

Gigantism isn't something that calls for a hard cap to fix, (which will ultimately cause more problems than solve), rather, it calls for the economy to fix itself, which is PLANNED as a part of the future empiric factions. I've said this before, titans will soon require the entire efforts of an empire, having to deal in trade with others in order to get the resources, and dedicating all of your workforce to make it (I imagine that this is how it'd go). Gigantism is a temporary problem that is being ironed out, and not only that, but it isn't even that big of a problem.



I'm not going to post the image again, but seriously, no. If I want to build a 5km carrier, then I shouldn't have to build it in METAL MESH. Seriously, that's just terrible, take it out back and shoot it already.

It already is implemented...kinda, you can limit ship sizes with the server config now.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

It already is implemented...kinda, you can limit ship sizes with the server config now.

That's just it though, Daniel wasn't wanting a server-option for his own server.
(otherwise, he would have said "Oh, thank you!" when Sven pointed out the server option.)

He was wanting an across the board hard-limit for everyone.
It's his pet fetish at this point.

 

[Daniel L.]

That's just it though, Daniel wasn't wanting a server-option for his own server.
(otherwise, he would have said "Oh, thank you!" when Sven pointed out the server option.)

He was wanting an across the board hard-limit for everyone.
It's his pet fetish at this point.

Really? I would think you'd be happy to have an easier time building when none of your enemies can be insanely large so you can build a massive fleet from the same resources rather than be forced to build 1?

 

[jontyfreack]

precicely we would rather have an easier time building without having to worry about a mass limit
[DOUBLEPOST=1454723664,1454723632][/DOUBLEPOST]*drops mic*

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

Really? I would think you'd be happy to have an easier time building when none of your enemies can be insanely large so you can build a massive fleet from the same resources rather than be forced to build 1?

No, I have an easier time building when there are no mass limits. Because guess what, I'm not swimming in the shitty pool filled with Doom-cubers.

Do you now what a mass limit would cause?
MOAR double-assholes running around ruining the game for everyone.

The kinds of people you are speaking about are the kinds that make DOOMCUBES and are near universally banned for "being an asshole".

A hard mass limit simply causes the "assholes" to spread out their OP mcbullshit, instead of concentrating it into 1 easily avoided spot.


The Mass limit you want ENABLES these assholes, in exactly the same way any Other manner of creativity block enables assholes.

Now, if you well and truly want that limit so bad, make yer own server and Set the limit. But, don't be surprised when it gets over-run with Doomcubes.

 

[Daniel L.]

precicely we would rather have an easier time building without having to worry about a mass limit
[DOUBLEPOST=1454723664,1454723632][/DOUBLEPOST]*drops mic*

If your enemies cant build titans then you wouldnt have to anyway, Meaning those hard mined resources can be made into an epic fleet that can crush anything and afford to take losses, Rather then one big ship that cant be in two places at once and if destroyed is basically your entire faction down the drain.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

If your enemies cant build titans then you wouldnt have to anyway

Mostly wrong, you'd still have to build the same amount of mass. It's actually EASIER to concentrate all that mass in one ship.

Meaning those hard mined resources can be made into an epic fleet

Except it won't be an epic fleet, because there will be DOZENS more of the assholes shooting up your shipyards and mines and factories.

that can crush anything

That flies directly opposite your intention, the smaller a ship, the LESS CAPABLE in ANY field than a bigger ship. (exception: Speed)
Thus, it is fundamentally NOT ABLE to crush anything.

Crushing things is half the reason Titans get designed.

afford to take losses

While it IS easier to absorb losses with a cruiser-fleet, most of the factions that sling Titans can afford to lose 2 or even 3 titans in any given battle.

Titans are a High-risk, Obscenely high reward type of choice.

A common bit of Wisdom : If you can't afford to loose it, don't fly it.
The PVP version : If you can't afford to loose it 20/80/200/etc times a day, don't fly it.

one big ship that cant be in two places at once

That's true too, a single large ship can only be in one place at a time.
On the other hand, unless it happens to be beating the other guy's Titan to death, it is utterly OWNING that one place.
(and sometimes beating the other guy's titan is the entire reason you sent it there.)

if destroyed is basically your entire faction down the drain.

Not unless you are in a hardcore PVP server, and have been loosing basically every battle over the last month or so.

Or have pissed all the other factions on a normal server. (and if you've done that on a Build server, then no wonder you're complaining so loudly. the whole point of a Build server is to BUILD things, usually the BIG things)

 

[JackBeFlippen]

So what you are all saying is that having a limit on a server is not a fun idea to have?

 

[DrTarDIS]

#38 Lord_Greyscale, Feb 5, 2016

#39 JackBeFlippen, Today at 5:10 PM

I lol'd