Interdiction - No escape!

[Blaza612]

I'll voice my concerns over any game suggestion that could ruin the game play for others.

Like I've said before, I don't have a problem with PVP, it's fine; but an already existing game mechanic that allows players to escape combat and use escape pods should not be broken because some rather vocal players want to go around blowing up whatever ship they see in space, and then get upset because those ships can jump out with their already-charged jump drives.

Jumping was never made for people to escape combat, it was made for travel. Yes, it allows players to escape, but again, there is no reason as to why there shouldn't be a mechanic to prevent jumping, the only reason you've presented it that players should be able to escape, they can, and still would be. These ideas are here to improve PVP when it comes to pirating, and as usual, you seem to have completely ignored the reasoning as to why your ideas are being shunned. Your idea was designed around the idea that you want to spite pirates/people who want to hunt others, as your idea forces fleet tactics. And that's the next problem, this is a SANDBOX game. People should not be forced to do things, there should be needs and different ways to satisfy those needs, my system provides needs and multiple ways to satisfy those needs, your way forces people to go one way. Like on the last thread, I'm done arguing with someone who has their head so far up their own ass that they're completely ignoring the reasoning, and only thinking for themselves. I'm not a pirate in this game, however I say that this is a good idea because I care about the game and making it better. This is a way to make it better, and I will not let you compromise the game for you selfish needs. Good day!

 

[nightwalker_007]

Jumping was never made for people to escape combat, it was made for travel. Yes, it allows players to escape, but again, there is no reason as to why there shouldn't be a mechanic to prevent jumping,

I see you've failed to read my posts. I've agreed before with stationary warp jump inhibitors to avoid hit-and-run tactics on structures. However, I've disagreed with mobile warp jamming without the warp jamming ship undergoing significant penalties. If a ship can warp jam, then there should be penalties applied to it executing that ability-- just like how there are severe penalties placed on what a cloaked ship can do. This would mean warp jamming ships could only effectively be used in fleet combat.

I will not let you compromise the game for you selfish needs

Ah, but the same could be said about every flame you've had against my suggestions and comments. Schine will do as they please with the game. They'll take in players suggestions and decide what best course to take. So I'll voice voice my concerns whenever I see a need to.

 

[Zaphord]

I see you've failed to read my posts. I've agreed before with stationary warp jump inhibitors to avoid hit-and-run tactics on structures. However, I've disagreed with mobile warp jamming without the warp jamming ship undergoing significant penalties. If a ship can warp jam, then there should be penalties applied to it executing that ability-- just like how there are severe penalties placed on what a cloaked ship can do. This would mean warp jamming ships could only effectively be used in fleet combat.

Ah, but the same could be said about every flame you've had against my suggestions and comments. Schine will do as they please with the game. They'll take in players suggestions and decide what best course to take. So I'll voice voice my concerns whenever I see a need to.

Who's failing to read posts now? Remember your earlier posts in this thread.

So more griefing? No. Nothing should be added to the game to make it easier to grief players, period. If anything, things should be added to the game to prevent griefing, and penalize players that engage in this behavior.

As I recall, we've brought up the aspect of interdictors having penalties similar to cloakers, and your reply was?

Hmm.. yes. perma-stealth is hard... and the new update broke my stealth ship but that's another story.

I can see this getting abused horribly. A medium ship killing the warp drive on a tiny warp jump ship, or noob ship. There should be absolutely no warp jamming allowed, period. It's a horrible idea. All that it will do is make the 12-year old kid that wants to be a pirate LOL all day long.

Back peddling. Classic :p.

It's become clear to me that you have no interest in interacting with players in this game, but would rather find a nice little asteroid field to mine and be left alone. The game is capable of generating how may galaxies? 9 quadrillion? I'm sure there's one out there on your server that's unpopulated by players, so go be a hermit all you want. Myself; if I wanted to do nothing but mine and build I'd still be playing Minecraft, this game at least lets me test my mettle against other players.

 

[GDPR 302420]

nightwalker_007 you are the ONLY person in this forum who doesn't agree with interdiction and your arguments are easily countered, your opinion is in the minority, you opinion will not be considered if Schine or the Council reads this

 

[Megacrafter127]

you opinion will not be considered if Schine or the Council reads this

False. It will be considered. If it completely changes the final decision is a different story.

 

[Magirik3]

I don't mind Space stations having an JD area-denial / beam Interdiction module.
To borrow a MOBA expression: Simply don't go tower-diving unless you want to get ganked.

For mobile, on-spaceship tools:
What about more ancient ways of trapping - nets?

Of course, launching a real physics based net would be complicated (size, effectiveness against JD etc.).
Inspired by the idea of a boarding party placing JD negators (as finding the JD-computer might be near impossible) something similar to a block launcher could be an alternative. What about the Hacking Drone in FTL?

Link a Missile Computer to a Jump Drive Computer, and voila, your Missiles will now instead of damaging and destroying enemy blocks in a radius, add JD-negator blocks in radius that drains JD-charge.

To balance things:
- As with regular missiles; range, flight speed, radius, drain, blocks required, etc. are numbers and can be tweaked.
- Probably should be kept dumb-fire or lock-on with low turn speed so smaller ships can dodge.
- Projectiles needs hp or to be untargetable by point-defence systems, else larger ships will not have to bother.
--- (Pewpew on a net already full of holes?)
--- As the negators are supposed to drain, larger ships will still charge albeit slower until drain overcomes charge.
- Spawned blocks can be removed in build-mode or by any external weapon or the Salvage/Healing beam.
--- This means that the negators can do damage if ship is hit and is removed by build-mode before rebooting.

Possible Addition:
--- Allow linking from other Weapon Systems as well?
--- Damage Pulses on the ship that is hit will not clear the negators, as they are considered part of the ship?


My opinion on balance:
Example ship with the ideal amount of JD modules:
Ship mass : 10 000 | JD- modules : 5000 | Charge time : 24 seconds

Is hit with a 5-radius anti-JD-missile (r=5 gives a sphere of ~500). Assuming it hits a flat wall, half is spawned (250).
250 : 5000 = 1 : 20
Imo this is to small relation for Drain > Charge. 1:20 should be more like half or so. Somethin about 1 : 10 feels more right. The Inderdictor ship would then need to hit twice to trap the other ship.

Then how many modules should the Interdictor ship need for the 5 radius - 2 hit stop? Same as the defending part feels right. (5000)

Finally reload: If ideal JD-charge time is 24 seconds, then about 16-20 second reload seems fitting. 2 tries to catch the Pokémon enemy ship. Since first hit is drain, there will be slightly more time to land successive hits.

Thoughts on this?

 

[ltmauve]

add JD-negator blocks in radius that drains JD-charge.

I'd imagine some sort of JD-charging debuff would be far better. No other weapon places blocks.
"Put down blocks that make your ship worse" as opposed to "apply a debuff" is weird and doesn't fit starmade, where all blocks make your ship better.

 

[Magirik3]

You're probably right, less blocks in RAM as well as no need to remove the negators later on. (Even if remove filter helps.)
I actually kindof agree on 'not fitting Starmade' when you mention it. Heh.

Having the debuff as blocks gives Mining Ships a role in combat as well though; make sure people can JD away.
The regular 'apply a debuff' definitely also works.

Comes down to whether one would like a reboot to remove debuff, or remove blocks to remove debuff.

... For another topic: Recon Darts. Sure that guy got away, but since I got a tracking block on him, I know just where he went. ^^

 

[0Samuel0]

Please... Eve is the root of all evil. I've spend over 1000 hours in that blasted game. The very thought of anything eve-like makes my sskin crawl.

Okay there are some good things in it. Fine... Indicators placed on structures I'm okay with, but not on ships. Everyone wins there, except for the bratty-kid's LOLz.

No! You have it exactly backwards.
Where is jamming annoying in Eve? Where is it fun?
Annoying - a warpgate blockage using interdiction structures that immediately jam anyone who comes through
Fun - When the interdictor flies over from it's fleet to the enemy, jamming the titan so that his fleet can destroy it

From a gameplay standpoint, what we want to see is more pvp where people have to think, have to act. AI homebase turrets and interdictors on structures that make it so that anyone who comes near is killed is not fun. We want pvp, not Player vs. AI!
Make it so that interdiction is a beam, and whenever the beam is not hitting the enemy ship, they can warp, and when it isn't, they can.
Most civilian ships are small and easily maneuvered, so they would be hard to interdict. The greifer here loses, but the player trying to interdict the enemy titan does not.

Also, one thing that shows up in science fiction, but not really in games, is warp instability around other objects. Make it so that when a ship is near another ship of similar size, the jump drive has about 50% instability. If they jump, they and the jump drive fails, they deal a burst of damage to themselves and anyone around them of the jump drives charge + (the ship's mass X percentage of effect by the other ship). This damage decreases with distance, and the instability also decreases with distance.
However, if the jump drive does not fail, they jump normally, and they do damage equal to just the jump drive's charge radiating outward, decreasing with distance, and only affecting other ships.
If the ship is next to the jumping ship is significantly smaller, another mechanic comes into play. There is a chance that the smaller ship will execute an imperfect jump with the larger ship, falling out of the jump partway through and doing damage to it based on the mass of the larger ship divided by the mass of the smaller ship, spread equally across the ship. This chance decreases with distance, and the larger the ship is compared to the jumping ship, the smaller the chance it will happen.
If a small ship tries to jump next to a large entity, it will inevitably destroy itself, with little effect to the larger entity. Why? The ship's mass x close to 100% would be enough to overheat the ship for the most part, and then extra effect from the charge will probably be enough that the player is left being ejected from a naked, overheating core.

Now where do interdictors come in? They artificially increase the instability of the jump drive by a far larger amount than a ship of their size normally should. So, if the ship tries to jump, it will have a huge percentage of effect instability, damaging itself a lot, but also likely destroying the interdictor in the process. Also, if they ever, ever run out of power, or miss, and the other large ship warps, they will be brought with it and die.
For this to work, jammers would need to be relatively short range, high power consumption beams. The more blocks they have, the greater the effect on the enemy ship, but the greater the power drain.

However, a much larger ship would have little need for a jammer, because any small ships trying to jump near them would just die.

Now how does this do anything against hit and run? If you fly your ship at the enemy station, or larger ship, you will need to fly away from the enemy station before you can jump, and not just kill yourself. If you are using a larger ship than what you are attacking, then what's the point of doing a hit and run?

EDIT - I'd just like to apologize for responding to the post three pages back, instead of a more recent one. Silly me.

 

[Nickizzy]

nightwalker_007
Why do you not like all of this? All of Blaza612's thruster/jumpdrive/sectorsize threads I've seen you on disagreeing with him. Not that constructive critisim isn't a good thing, but your always talking about grefers and "12 year old [insert critisim here]s" trolling and being anti-Pvp. What do you suggest otherwise, right now jump drives are untraceable, a microsystem in comparisism to what other systems cost, and are really both too slow for intergalactic transportation(to long charge time) and are used to jump out of Pvp evey time your shields drop below 25%.

These things could help pvp and faction warfare, and expand ship types, gameplay, and actually PROTECT against hit and run(stop their jump escape) and trolling(just kill the drone).

Please explain your arguments better, and talk more about why you want certain things, I've never been greffed or raided, when have you? What are your experiances with trollers and raiders and the horrors of starmade?
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No! You have it exactly backwards.
Where is jamming annoying in Eve? Where is it fun?
Annoying - a warpgate blockage using interdiction structures that immediately jam anyone who comes through
Fun - When the interdictor flies over from it's fleet to the enemy, jamming the titan so that his fleet can destroy it

From a gameplay standpoint, what we want to see is more pvp where people have to think, have to act. AI homebase turrets and interdictors on structures that make it so that anyone who comes near is killed is not fun. We want pvp, not Player vs. AI!
Make it so that interdiction is a beam, and whenever the beam is not hitting the enemy ship, they can warp, and when it isn't, they can.
Most civilian ships are small and easily maneuvered, so they would be hard to interdict. The greifer here loses, but the player trying to interdict the enemy titan does not.

Also, one thing that shows up in science fiction, but not really in games, is warp instability around other objects. Make it so that when a ship is near another ship of similar size, the jump drive has about 50% instability. If they jump, they and the jump drive fails, they deal a burst of damage to themselves and anyone around them of the jump drives charge + (the ship's mass X percentage of effect by the other ship). This damage decreases with distance, and the instability also decreases with distance.
However, if the jump drive does not fail, they jump normally, and they do damage equal to just the jump drive's charge radiating outward, decreasing with distance, and only affecting other ships.
If the ship is next to the jumping ship is significantly smaller, another mechanic comes into play. There is a chance that the smaller ship will execute an imperfect jump with the larger ship, falling out of the jump partway through and doing damage to it based on the mass of the larger ship divided by the mass of the smaller ship, spread equally across the ship. This chance decreases with distance, and the larger the ship is compared to the jumping ship, the smaller the chance it will happen.
If a small ship tries to jump next to a large entity, it will inevitably destroy itself, with little effect to the larger entity. Why? The ship's mass x close to 100% would be enough to overheat the ship for the most part, and then extra effect from the charge will probably be enough that the player is left being ejected from a naked, overheating core.

Now where do interdictors come in? They artificially increase the instability of the jump drive by a far larger amount than a ship of their size normally should. So, if the ship tries to jump, it will have a huge percentage of effect instability, damaging itself a lot, but also likely destroying the interdictor in the process. Also, if they ever, ever run out of power, or miss, and the other large ship warps, they will be brought with it and die.
For this to work, jammers would need to be relatively short range, high power consumption beams. The more blocks they have, the greater the effect on the enemy ship, but the greater the power drain.

However, a much larger ship would have little need for a jammer, because any small ships trying to jump near them would just die.

Now how does this do anything against hit and run? If you fly your ship at the enemy station, or larger ship, you will need to fly away from the enemy station before you can jump, and not just kill yourself. If you are using a larger ship than what you are attacking, then what's the point of doing a hit and run?

EDIT - I'd just like to apologize for responding to the post three pages back, instead of a more recent one. Silly me.

No. Just No. This would mean players making doom cubes and jumping around randomly, killing all the noob ships and drones. Small ships would be killed if ever found by a larger ship. Jump drives would become a greffer weapon, and would actually kill anyone jumping away from a shop or station or anything they docked to.