Interdiction - No escape!

[nightwalker_007]

This is how interdictor ships are used in Eve:

1. Player 1 warps into a system, finds a ship they want to harass, and prevents it from jumping
2. Player 2 warps into the system and blows up the ship that can't escape
3. Player 1 and player 2 LOLz over the scrap heap.

This is not a game mechanic we want.

 

[Winterhome]

This is how interdictor ships are used in Eve:

1. Player 1 warps into a system, finds a ship they want to harass, and prevents it from jumping
2. Player 2 warps into the system and blows up the ship that can't escape
3. Player 1 and player 2 LOLz over the scrap heap.

This is not a game mechanic we want.

Sure it is.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get multiple people together?

Plus, if you're getting jumped by a fleet, you probably have a fleet of your own stashed somewhere.

 

[nightwalker_007]

Sure, if StarMade was a game that could support 30,000 players at one time on one server. Sheesh, I don't even think 30,000 people play the game at one time! And StarMade has a much bigger universe than Eve Online does.

This is a horrible idea and will only spoil the game for players, especially those starting out. We have enough problems keeping players to begin with.

 

[Zaphord]

Sure, if StarMade was a game that could support 30,000 players at one time on one server. Sheesh, I don't even think 30,000 people play the game at one time! And StarMade has a much bigger universe than Eve Online does.

This is a horrible idea and will only spoil the game for players, especially those starting out. We have enough problems keeping players to begin with.

First off, if your just starting off you wouldn't have the resources to build an interdictor on the first place. Once the game is set for implementing a purely survival mode, you couldn't just spawn one in you downloaded either.

Second, there will be greifers regardless of what server you're on. So defenses against interdiction would be a must have if it were to be implemented.

Third, Having to chase down a ship in pvp that can just keep warping away cause it has 4 jump drives is an even bigger pain that being kept from jumping in the first place.

 

[godmars]

This is how interdictor ships are used in Eve:

1. Player 1 warps into a system, finds a ship they want to harass, and prevents it from jumping
2. Player 2 warps into the system and blows up the ship that can't escape
3. Player 1 and player 2 LOLz over the scrap heap.

This is not a game mechanic we want.

id rather have this than people slapping 5 jump drives on their ship, charging them all, then warping into a sector and spamming missiles, then warping away to repeat until everything is dead

 

[Zaphord]

Here's how I would do it;

Ship based interdiction would work in one of 2 ways - keeping a single ship from using it's jump drives or blocking all jumping in an area around it, friend and foe alike.

Focusing your interdictor on a targeted ship would be great to keep it from warping away with your boarding party still on board or to prevent that slippery pirate with the bounty on his head from getting away on you. Mind you, you'll be a sitting duck while you hold that ship in place, so bring some faction buddies to do the dirty work and keep you from getting blasted to atoms.

Now preventing all warp travel in an area around you is a double edged sword. You'd be just as trapped with your victims as they'd trapped with you. No one's coming to their aid, and no one will be able to warp in and save you. This is more of a fleet combat mechanic than anything; find and knock out the interdictor so your fleet's reinforcements can warp in.

As for structures; they will either block incoming jumps, a form of area denial, or they work like a warp trap keeping ships from jumping out. This doesn't keep them from entering or exiting an area using their thrusters, just keeps them from fast traveling in this area.

 

[Blaza612]

Here's how I would do it;

Ship based interdiction would work in one of 2 ways - keeping a single ship from using it's jump drives or blocking all jumping in an area around it, friend and foe alike.

Focusing your interdictor on a targeted ship would be great to keep it from warping away with your boarding party still on board or to prevent that slippery pirate with the bounty on his head from getting away on you. Mind you, you'll be a sitting duck while you hold that ship in place, so bring some faction buddies to do the dirty work and keep you from getting blasted to atoms.

Now preventing all warp travel in an area around you is a double edged sword. You'd be just as trapped with your victims as they'd trapped with you. No one's coming to their aid, and no one will be able to warp in and save you. This is more of a fleet combat mechanic than anything; find and knock out the interdictor so your fleet's reinforcements can warp in.

As for structures; they will either block incoming jumps, a form of area denial, or they work like a warp trap keeping ships from jumping out. This doesn't keep them from entering or exiting an area using their thrusters, just keeps them from fast traveling in this area.

With the interdictor structure, we run into a slight problem. Speed. The people you're trying to catch can very easily fly away and out of range, so sectors will need a size increase to account for this. But this will also make warping more of a mainstream travel system. The problem with that, is the charge time. It takes a retarded amount of time to charge the warp, so, we'll need to either:

A) reduce the charge time significantly

or

B) change how the warp drive works entirely. At the moment, it's just something that teleports you from one place to another, so, why not do something similar to EVE Online, on how it just propels you at ludicrous speeds, well, it moves the space around you. Make it similar to how a real life warp would work. Collisions wouldn't need to matter, as they aren't apart of the space that you're moving, so it'd just be warped around the warp bubble. Charging the warp would also be replaced with having to align yourself properly, and gain some speed. This will allow warp to become much more mainstream, allowing Interdictors to also become a more viable option in the future.

 

[nightwalker_007]

Boarding should be dangerous. If you board a ship and you're grappled to it, then it decides to warp, well then, you deserve to be taken for a ride. If you want to prevent a ship from warping, then destroy the warp computers.

StarMade is not EVE online There are things that work in Eve that won't work in other games. EVE needs pirate-players and griefers to maintain the game economy-- but these players ruin the fun for anyone new to the game.

There is a simple solution to all of this that won't break the game nor require any additional blocks: Firing weapons will cause your warp capacitors to drain. Done. Hit-and-run tactics against stations and other ships are now no longer an issue. This means non-combative ships can warp out when attacked-- unlike in EVE, where pirate player frequently use warp jammers on mining ships that have no combat role.

 

[Blaza612]

Boarding should be dangerous. If you board a ship and you're grappled to it, then it decides to warp, well then, you deserve to be taken for a ride. If you want to prevent a ship from warping, then destroy the warp computers.

StarMade is not EVE online There are things that work in Eve that won't work in other games. EVE needs pirate-players and griefers to maintain the game economy-- but these players ruin the fun for anyone new to the game.

There is a simple solution to all of this that won't break the game nor require any additional blocks: Firing weapons will cause your warp capacitors to drain. Done. Hit-and-run tactics against stations and other ships are now no longer an issue. This means non-combative ships can warp out when attacked-- unlike in EVE, where pirate player frequently use warp jammers on mining ships that have no combat role.

The problem with that is the fact that there is no real gain's other than Hit & Run tactics no longer working, which isn't really a gain in itself. I would prefer to be able to hit and run, rather than annoy a pirate since they have to wait a little longer for their warp to charge. The best way to implement an interdictor so far is the one that I proposed above. And sure, this isn't EVE Online, but there's a reason that EVE is so successful, so why not borrow some elements and implement them in it's own way, that would allow other things, such as interdictors, to be more viable.

On a side note, another gain it would provide, people have always been annoyed at how close everything is, that it's extremely easy to just get some thrusters, and fly to the other side of the system in a matter of minutes. What I've proposed would make the sectors significantly bigger, making everything feel further away. The thing EVE does best is scale, making warp the main system both feels more "spacey" and makes the game a little more realistic, as conventional thrusters will not be able to get us very far.

TL;DR, EVE's system does scale best, people complain about scale, EVE warping + Starmade = better scale that people like.

 

[nightwalker_007]

I get that you want to be able to bash other players and prevent them from escaping. Fine. The whole point of a jump drive is so that you can warp to other sectors AND escape. Warp jamming would make escape pods pointless to put on a ship, because the ability for them to warp as well would be blocked.

I'll have to go back to my original position. No warp jamming. Let players warp in and out as they wish. If your station isn't strong enough to take a few missile hits, then too bad-- get more point defense turrets, or more shields. If you have a boarding party on a ship, and the ship warps, then too bad. You took that risk. If you're out in an asteroid field mining away, and a pirate jumps in to take your stuff, well then, too bad, that ship should be able to jump out before those missiles have a chance to lock on. If you need your turrets to hit right away, then use beams.

 

[GDPR 302420]

I get that you want to be able to bash other players and prevent them from escaping. Fine. The whole point of a jump drive is so that you can warp to other sectors AND escape. Warp jamming would make escape pods pointless to put on a ship, because the ability for them to warp as well would be blocked.

I'll have to go back to my original position. No warp jamming. Let players warp in and out as they wish. If your station isn't strong enough to take a few missile hits, then too bad-- get more point defense turrets, or more shields. If you have a boarding party on a ship, and the ship warps, then too bad. You took that risk. If you're out in an asteroid field mining away, and a pirate jumps in to take your stuff, well then, too bad, that ship should be able to jump out before those missiles have a chance to lock on. If you need your turrets to hit right away, then use beams.

Every Mechanic in StarMade or any other game can be abused, its the nature of gaming, take Minecraft and TNT Cannons as an example and players love this functionality.

And everyone except for you loves the mechanic so your opinion is in the minority, and therefore will not be recognised, i am all for this mechanic i dont want a warp drive to be an "I win" button

 

[Winterhome]

but these players ruin the fun for anyone new to the game.

On the contrary. I got suicide ganked by CODE on my first day, within hours of finishing some parts of the tutorial, and I'm still doing just fine in EVE.

 

[nightwalker_007]

Every Mechanic in StarMade or any other game can be abused, its the nature of gaming, take Minecraft and TNT Cannons as an example and players love this functionality

TNT cannons in minecraft take some time to build, You're better off just dumping tons of TNT around a structure, or under it. Besides, most minecraft servers disable TNT and fires. You're comparing apples and oranges here. You've proposed a new game mechanic that breaks an existing one, and removes the ability for non-combative players to escape from combat situations.

i dont want a warp drive to be an "I win" button

I don't want a warp jammer to be a "I Win" button either-- which it would be for non-combat ships, which is why I said the warp drive capacitors should be tied to weapons. If you fire first, then you're not going to be able to jump out. If you don't fire, then your warp drive would remain fully charged and you can jump without a problem. The only players that would get pissed off by this would be pirates who attack other players that don't want to engage in combat.

 

[Winterhome]

You consent to PVP by leaving protected sectors or by undocking from your homebase in PVP servers.

If it's such a problem, leave it as a config option.

 

[Zaphord]

I get that you want to be able to bash other players and prevent them from escaping. Fine. The whole point of a jump drive is so that you can warp to other sectors AND escape. Warp jamming would make escape pods pointless to put on a ship, because the ability for them to warp as well would be blocked.

I'll have to go back to my original position. No warp jamming. Let players warp in and out as they wish. If your station isn't strong enough to take a few missile hits, then too bad-- get more point defense turrets, or more shields. If you have a boarding party on a ship, and the ship warps, then too bad. You took that risk. If you're out in an asteroid field mining away, and a pirate jumps in to take your stuff, well then, too bad, that ship should be able to jump out before those missiles have a chance to lock on. If you need your turrets to hit right away, then use beams.

You seem to be missing the point of what everyone has been trying to tell you this whole time; the advantages outweigh having to put up with a few greifers who will probably get blown away the first time they try it because no greifer I know of would ever be organized enough to use it effectively.

When I refer to interdiction, I don't mean 1 ship locking down another in open space, I mean a fleet encounter where the interdictor's job is to keep enemy reinforcements from moving in and out of battle. Keep damaged front line ships from jumping back to their support fleet a few sectors away and you've basically taken control of the battlefield. Prevent enemy reinforcements from warping in, now you've pretty much won by attrition. The catch is you have to keep that interdictor protected at all costs, or the whole plan falls apart and the tides of battle will turn on you.

This isn't something some 12 year old with nothing better to do will do for fun if the result is the guaranteed destruction of a very expensive and strategically important ship. Even if said 12 year old did manage to get a few friends together, I doubt the results would be any better for them seeing as now they will probably have several factions on the server gunning for them for being annoying.

Killing an idea for a game mechanic over something as trivial as it's minute potential to amuse the local trolls is poor game design, if it could be used as a major exploit then it can always be balanced out later. That's why we test these things.
[DOUBLEPOST=1436346861,1436346781][/DOUBLEPOST]

You consent to PVP by leaving protected sectors or by undocking from your homebase in PVP servers.

If it's such a problem, leave it as a config option.

Truer words were never written. Don't want to get ganked? Stay off the pvp servers.
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With the interdictor structure, we run into a slight problem. Speed. The people you're trying to catch can very easily fly away and out of range, so sectors will need a size increase to account for this. But this will also make warping more of a mainstream travel system. The problem with that, is the charge time. It takes a retarded amount of time to charge the warp, so, we'll need to either:

A) reduce the charge time significantly

or

B) change how the warp drive works entirely. At the moment, it's just something that teleports you from one place to another, so, why not do something similar to EVE Online, on how it just propels you at ludicrous speeds, well, it moves the space around you. Make it similar to how a real life warp would work. Collisions wouldn't need to matter, as they aren't apart of the space that you're moving, so it'd just be warped around the warp bubble. Charging the warp would also be replaced with having to align yourself properly, and gain some speed. This will allow warp to become much more mainstream, allowing Interdictors to also become a more viable option in the future.

Hadn't thought of that, good point. The warp trap thing might not work unless the sectors were much larger.

 

[nightwalker_007]

I'm not completely against warp jamming. I'm against mobile warp jamming. If you want to lock down the sector around your base and make the only way to warp in and out is to use the warp gates, then fine-- but ships should not be able to do this. Just like ships currently can't place certain blocks on them (no factories, for example).

 

[Zaphord]

I'm not completely against warp jamming. I'm against mobile warp jamming. If you want to lock down the sector around your base and make the only way to warp in and out is to use the warp gates, then fine-- but ships should not be able to do this. Just like ships currently can't place certain blocks on them (no factories, for example).

That's going to change once we get capital ships, so be prepared for interdicting constructor ships.

Besides, even if you get caught by a mobile interdictor, who's to say you can't shoot it down or fly out of range? Come to think of it, a mobile warp jammer would be quite fragile, so just shoot it down and laugh at the troll who tried to grief you as you salvage his ship for scrap.

 

[nightwalker_007]

Erm.. Well if warp jamming also means that the jamming ships shields drop to zero... that'll work.

 

[Blaza612]

Erm.. Well if warp jamming also means that the jamming ships shields drop to zero... that'll work.

While an interdictor should be vulnerable, that's too vulnerable. That should only happen if the power is managed so badly, that the shields no longer have the necessary power.

 

[nightwalker_007]

If you're jamming, then the ship should become fully dedicated to that task and unable to move, shoot or anything else besides sit there and jam a sector. That would force those that wish to use a jammer to have a large fleet to protect it. In the meantime, you'll just have to protect that fancy jamming ship with tons of armor and astrotech beams. That's the only way I'd find this remotely acceptable and would force well thought out fleet tactics to use such a ship in battle.