Read by Council Integrate a "difficulty" function into /sector_chmod

[Erth Paradine]

Request/Goal:
Enable the creation of "protected" areas, without stripping all NPC spawn chances.

Currently:
The entire universe is a free-for-all:

• Pirates randomly spawn; a battleship, and two-block ship, both have an equal likelihood of attracting the same pirate waves. This is not a realistic scenario: nothing is gained when large fleets suddenly attack targets incapable of effective defense, anywhere, at any time.
• Some miners don't care for any combat, others are willing to take some risks. Same goes for traders, builders, etc.

Result of proposed:

• Moving away from the boolean yes/no for AI spawn chances.
  
• Add support for trade/safe/build zones, without completely removing AI wave possibility.

Suggested Method:
Integrate a "difficulty" field via /sector_chmod, perhaps just an integer from 0-99.
Correlate sector "difficulty" with AI spawn difficulty. For instance:

• Sector 2 2 2 has difficulty set at 10, any AI spawn difficulty greater than 10 shall not spawn in this sector.

When setting on a sector, for each sector outwards deduct difficulty by one. For instance:

• Sector 2 2 2 has difficulty set at 10
• Set difficulty for 2 2 1 at 9
• Set 2 2 0 at 8
• 2 2 -1 at 7
• 2 2 -2 at 6
• etc...

Rationale:

• Protected and spawn areas would be far less likely targets of devastating NPC attacks, creating in-effect safer areas for designated areas of space.
  
• Areas safer from NPC fleets remain at risk of attack via PVP, but at least those attacks require someone's effort, instead of just raw random chance. Attacks are also more likely to be proportional to their target.

Alternative Approach:
While the following suggestion doesn't help with the all/nothing difficulty concern raised above, it may be simply to implement in the short-term. Of course setting this for anything more than a 3x3x3 block of sectors means an NPC spawn chance is basically 0 at all times for players in/near the center. That seems a bit too extreme to me.

Add support for defining "boxes" to /chmod_sector . For instance, the following command could set the same sector mode for sectors 2 2 2, 2 2 1, 2 2 0, 2 1 2, 2 0 2, etc...

• /chmod_sector 2 2 2 0 0 0 + peace

 

[jontyfreack]

I see no flaws in this just yet. I have a feeling it might already be planned, but hey if not this is a good as a start to planning it as any.

I would like for ai "waves" to get progressively more difficult the further away from the spawn sector, perhaps each star system away from 0,0,0 gets progressively more difficult would be a more workable solution for those like me, who like to stay in the same area, then suddenly cross half the galaxy in search of stuff.
and with the new ai factions and the procedurally generated factions with ships built by players, being more likely to encounter more and more difficult factions and ships the further away from the spawn you go, this would be a good idea.

-the cookiemonsterdreadnought(aka jontyfreack) approves of this suggestion-

 

[jayman38]

I think custom difficulties per sector would be great. It would be nice for an admit to "get" the current difficulty level of the current sector, especially if sectors will get procedural difficulty levels (E.g. more difficulty farther from spawn).

It would be nice to be able to set difficulties for entire ranges of sectors. E.g. 0, 0, 0 - 8,8,8 or 0-,0-,0- (any sector with a negative coordinate)

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I wonder if the tedium of a system such as this would fit with planned features.

There is a faction overhaul planned that will likely remove the most if not all of the randomness of enemy spawning (speculation). We know there will be the Trade Guild, Outcasts, and Scavengers (Pirates) as well as all the proceduraly generated factions being added from the current contest and several not yet announced planed factions. I expect the procedural factions could be randomly hostile or neutral to players but that's just speculation.

Now, as far as I know (so don't quote me on this) the factions will control and defend their own space while at the same time attempting to expand and take over enemy space. Trying to go deep into enemy territory will likely be harder or perhaps the more you anger them the more likely they are to send larger ships (speculation). Certain systems of the galaxy will likely be safe from attack if you are far away from enemy controlled space or while in friendly space. There is already a huge new spawn station planned to be added to the game and the trade guild will likely control a lot of space around spawn making it a relatively safe as long as you do not anger them.

Also because it came up: Personally I've never liked the "harder because farther" idea. It discourages exploration and for me breaks any immersion as there is no real reason things would get more difficult just because you go far away from a central point. It makes sense in linear single player games but as this is an open galaxy sandbox it just doesn't seem to fit.

 

[Erth Paradine]

I wonder if the tedium of a system such as this would fit with planned features.

There is a faction overhaul planned that will likely remove the most if not all of the randomness of enemy spawning (speculation). We know there will be the Trade Guild, Outcasts, and Scavengers (Pirates) as well as all the proceduraly generated factions being added from the current contest and several not yet announced planed factions. I expect the procedural factions could be randomly hostile or neutral to players but that's just speculation.

Now, as far as I know (so don't quote me on this) the factions will control and defend their own space while at the same time attempting to expand and take over enemy space. Trying to go deep into enemy territory will likely be harder or perhaps the more you anger them the more likely they are to send larger ships (speculation). Certain systems of the galaxy will likely be safe from attack if you are far away from enemy controlled space or while in friendly space. There is already a huge new spawn station planned to be added to the game and the trade guild will likely control a lot of space around spawn making it a relatively safe as long as you do not anger them.

Also because it came up: Personally I've never liked the "harder because farther" idea. It discourages exploration and for me breaks any immersion as there is no real reason things would get more difficult just because you go far away from a central point. It makes sense in linear single player games but as this is an open galaxy sandbox it just doesn't seem to fit.

If this is the direction of things, that would be an interesting evolution.

Although to clarify the "harder because farther" idea, at least from my suggestion, was more to effect "safer" zones around specific pre-designed spots. Trade hubs for instance, warpgates, easier mining spots (for noobs to get a foothold), etc. To me, this type of concept would make sense; populated areas are more patrolled/policed, and therefore NPC pirates are less likely to roam.

IMHO, things should be more difficult out in the Void, as there's not many natural resources to harvest, so pirates should be more aggressive about obtaining needed resources. As for a galaxy-proper, I do agree that a generic "harder because farther" (e.g. difficulty increases with distance from galaxy core) does not make a great deal of sense.

 

[Madman198237]

I like the idea of difficulty ratings. Also, the idea of nexuses of easiness/difficulty is appealing. Together they make for a system by which you can determine how dangerous a section of space is, and can easily visualize why and who's making it dangerous.

So, planets/stations owned by factions can change the difficulty of space. Let's say that a pirate station sets the local difficulty (In its sector) to 99. If you enter the space, you have a 99% chance of being attacked, with a wave of X difficulty based on the size of your ship and the size (Value) of the station to the faction. The TG will not send half a dozen battlecruisers after you for shooting a robotic shop twice with a handgun, but if you attack with a fighter, they'll send a couple of their own ships.
This difficulty decreases (Exponentially, by an operation of multiplication, linearly, somehow) towards the galactic background danger. This number in itself should change based on galactic pirate activity versus neutral/friendly factions power. In other words, if you're allied with the TG and an enemy of the Scavs, and the Scavs own most of the galaxy, no matter where you are is going to be more dangerous than a "normal" galaxy.
This number would probably need to different for everyone based on their relative standings with various groups.


If any of this is unclear or unfinished, that's probably because it is. Please make a mention of any discrepancies and/or utter crap you read. I'll fix it.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Although to clarify the "harder because farther" idea, at least from my suggestion, was more to effect "safer" zones around specific pre-designed spots. Trade hubs for instance, warpgates, easier mining spots (for noobs to get a foothold), etc. To me, this type of concept would make sense; populated areas are more patrolled/policed, and therefore NPC pirates are less likely to roam.

Yeah I got the intention of making safe zones without making them completely peaceful. Manually setting up a galaxy would be such a pain though so the game does need a way to make areas more dangerous/safer than others which would be best done with controlled space. It makes sense and adds immersion if factions own and defend their own space instead of just being random TG, derelict and Pirate stations in every single system.

IMHO, things should be more difficult out in the Void, as there's not many natural resources to harvest, so pirates should be more aggressive about obtaining needed resources. As for a galaxy-proper, I do agree that a generic "harder because farther" (e.g. difficulty increases with distance from galaxy core) does not make a great deal of sense.

In that same regard pirates have no reason to be out there because there is no resources and rarely would be a ship to raid. Maybe it's a good place to hide a solitary base but there wouldn't be a huge pirate population in every system. I agree the void should not be a place to casually wander into but not because there is a guarantee of big bad pirate ships. I would put my vote into anomalies and hostile space faring creatures.

 

[Ghent96]

OP is a great idea for admins to customize certain sectors, but what we also need is a more global way to set sector difficulty in a range/array of sectors / systems, and a way to create a procedural-gradient of difficulty in certain shapes - eg - sphere, torus, line, random. We need a way to correlate randomized/procedurally determined sector or system difficulty with AI Spawn groups under the admin tab also. We can ensure certain ship types spawn in certain areas, that pirate capitals don't spawn next to 2,2,2 and spawn-camp newbies, and we can create NPC and faction wars that players can jump in and out of as participants.

also:

/chmod_system
/chmod_system_range
/chmod_sector_range

 

[Erth Paradine]

OP is a great idea for admins to customize certain sectors, but what we also need is a more global way to set sector difficulty in a range/array of sectors / systems, and a way to create a procedural-gradient of difficulty in certain shapes - eg - sphere, torus, line, random. We need a way to correlate randomized/procedurally determined sector or system difficulty with AI Spawn groups under the admin tab also. We can ensure certain ship types spawn in certain areas, that pirate capitals don't spawn next to 2,2,2 and spawn-camp newbies, and we can create NPC and faction wars that players can jump in and out of as participants.

also:

/chmod_system
/chmod_system_range
/chmod_sector_range

Oh hell yes! Afterall, the routine's octree math/coding has already been implemented in the pre-existing command: /load_sector_range

In-fact, your suggestion really should be a separate thread.

 

[Benevolent27]

Request/Goal:
Enable the creation of "protected" areas, without stripping all NPC spawn chances.

Currently:
The entire universe is a free-for-all:

• Pirates randomly spawn; a battleship, and two-block ship, both have an equal likelihood of attracting the same pirate waves. This is not a realistic scenario: nothing is gained when large fleets suddenly attack targets incapable of effective defense, anywhere, at any time.
• Some miners don't care for any combat, others are willing to take some risks. Same goes for traders, builders, etc.

Result of proposed:

• Moving away from the boolean yes/no for AI spawn chances.
  
• Add support for trade/safe/build zones, without completely removing AI wave possibility.

Suggested Method:
Integrate a "difficulty" field via /sector_chmod, perhaps just an integer from 0-99.
Correlate sector "difficulty" with AI spawn difficulty. For instance:

• Sector 2 2 2 has difficulty set at 10, any AI spawn difficulty greater than 10 shall not spawn in this sector.

When setting on a sector, for each sector outwards deduct difficulty by one. For instance:

• Sector 2 2 2 has difficulty set at 10
• Set difficulty for 2 2 1 at 9
• Set 2 2 0 at 8
• 2 2 -1 at 7
• 2 2 -2 at 6
• etc...

Rationale:

• Protected and spawn areas would be far less likely targets of devastating NPC attacks, creating in-effect safer areas for designated areas of space.
  
• Areas safer from NPC fleets remain at risk of attack via PVP, but at least those attacks require someone's effort, instead of just raw random chance. Attacks are also more likely to be proportional to their target.

Alternative Approach:
While the following suggestion doesn't help with the all/nothing difficulty concern raised above, it may be simply to implement in the short-term. Of course setting this for anything more than a 3x3x3 block of sectors means an NPC spawn chance is basically 0 at all times for players in/near the center. That seems a bit too extreme to me.

Add support for defining "boxes" to /chmod_sector . For instance, the following command could set the same sector mode for sectors 2 2 2, 2 2 1, 2 2 0, 2 1 2, 2 0 2, etc...

• /chmod_sector 2 2 2 0 0 0 + peace

I like this. But I also think this could be used in conjunction with the way the universe is spawned. For example, sectors with a trade station in it are safe right now. But the sectors next to them are not. Why not make those sectors half-safe? Then for sectors surrounding a pirate base, these should be more dangerous than other sectors, right? Simply entering one of these sectors might spawn some pirates in.