How do you balance a cheater? With a ban hammer.

[Captain Fortius]

Here's something definitive then;

Clipping a bunch of entities into one another causes lag.
Building/ Spawning stuff that causes lag are generally against most server's rules. I've seen some good admins who actually went around and checked up on stuff that caused lag; Yes, the logs show it.
With the rule system in place, perhaps ever-vigilant automation is not too far.

A pity that creating half-block thick sliding doors that recess into half block gaps, along with a number of other minor non-malicious tricks is also clipping.

What's happening with Beam+Beam weapons are, dishonorable players aside, partially Schema&Co's fault.
They've created a weapon that was unfit for normal use, yet ripe for exploiting.
At least the Quickfire team fixed that.

 

[Az14el]

name calling aside, yes there are some pretty broken mechanics and clear examples are always useful when approaching a fix, point out whatever flaw you can imagine with it, it's the overly powerful archetype of ship that's problematic at the moment, not the numerical values it achieves.

smd always classy~

 

[StormWing0]

I think I remember running into this monster before. The only thing that makes it dangerous is the game rending amount of lag it produces. Other than that it can be dealt with if you have enough time to move before it opens up on you. XD

 

[Dr. Whammy]

While it may be pretty smart to multiply your armor via clipping, it is also extremely unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate to the other players that have to put up with the lag bomb you release on the server.

I get that some of our builds may turn out to be naturally laggy (cough, cough 100x torpedo launcher...) but we shouldn't be building specifically for that purpose.

Regarding armor stacking from overlapping blocks: the only fix for this that would be fair to everyone is to make all blocks occupying the same physical space take the same damage simultaneously when shot. This would take away any tactical benefit from overlapping blocks without penalizing anyone for building creatively; i.e. animated rails, doors, etc.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Reilly Reese]

While it may be pretty smart to multiply your armor via clipping, it is also extremely unsportsmanlike and inconsiderate to the other players that have to put up with the lag bomb you release on the server.

I get that some of our builds may turn out to be naturally laggy (cough, cough 100x torpedo launcher...) but we shouldn't be building specifically for that purpose.

Regarding armor stacking from overlapping blocks: the only fix for this that would be fair to everyone is to make all blocks occupying the same physical space take the same damage simultaneously when shot. This would take away any tactical benefit from overlapping blocks without penalizing anyone for building creatively; i.e. animated rails, doors, etc.

What are your thoughts on this?

I can't think of any immediate issues with this solution if it's implementable.

 

[Az14el]

nobodies building specifically for lag lol
okay probably not entirely true, but it's not the intention behind a "meta pvp build", the intention is combat ability, some of the methods in question cause the lag (methods revealed in the build in question, handy right?), just like a torpedo launcher or elevator. Just for combat rather than decor or for the sake of glorious torpedos.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

nobodies building specifically for lag lol
okay probably not entirely true, but it's not the intention behind a "meta pvp build", the intention is combat ability, some of the methods in question cause the lag (methods revealed in the build in question, handy right?), just like a torpedo launcher or elevator. Just for combat rather than decor or for the sake of glorious torpedos.

Intentional or not; anyone who's been playing this game for more than a few months should have a good idea of what causes sever lag. If you join a server and choose to build like this anyway, you're being inconsiderate to the rest of your server's players. This is why I no longer build/use my old style torpedo launchers and keep elevators and other docked entities to a minimum.

 

[Az14el]

You could say that about sizes too, and yet you have like 700ks on brierie & the gigantic homebases that involves, yeah there's a lot of things that cause lag in starmade. Which is why "being considerate" isn't exactly a science lol, regardless of platitudes people *will* be competetive in a game like this. "Just don't do it", valid or not, straight up isn't going to fix the problem, especially later in developement when there's a larger playerbase. These are issues that need to be brought to light and resolved for the game to be successful later. So really whats the point of all this nitpicking about how "inconsiderate" or "not ReEl MeTA" it is? It's petty at best, shady at worst. As always whenever this ridiculous discussion rears its head across the years here.

Tiring lol

 

[Captain Fortius]

nobodies building specifically for lag lol

Oh, I've seen that.

Massive, featureless plate as a station, with an equally long brick ship glitched through it. Those morons spent two whole days lagging out a server before they were found, killed off and their miscreation dismantled. That' what happens when there are no admins around.

As for intentions in PVP go?
I've also personally seen one of the more infamous "oh-so-hardcore meta pvp" filth keep ramming my station in the hopes he'd lag me out. (Apparently I was being unsportsmanlike, not dropping building the stuff I was interested in, and not leaving a protected home base to fight him, -despite being a fresh arrival on the server, posessing no materiel to shoot back with- when HE desperately needed a boost to his frail and quite possibly deeply wounded ego)
Creep was outta luck though; Having a life and a job, I was able to build a considerable better PC than his one must have been.

And I can tell you these things despite being a VERY rare visitor to public servers.
I'm sure most of you have seen way more.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

You could say that about sizes too, and yet you have like 700ks on brierie & the gigantic homebases that involves, yeah there's a lot of things that cause lag in starmade. Which is why "being considerate" isn't exactly a science lol, regardless of platitudes people *will* be competetive in a game like this. "Just don't do it", valid or not, straight up isn't going to fix the problem, especially later in developement when there's a larger playerbase. These are issues that need to be brought to light and resolved for the game to be successful later. So really whats the point of all this nitpicking about how "inconsiderate" or "not ReEl MeTA" it is? It's petty at best, shady at worst. As always whenever this ridiculous discussion rears its head across the years here.

Tiring lol

What's the point?

Ok. Go play on a server where someone constantly pings ALL players into quadruple to quintuple digits and causes multiple server crashes for an hour, then maybe you'll see the point.

Regarding "Size": While large structures do impact lag, a bigger contributor - the one we are discussing here - comes from clipping and overlapping entities.

If armor multiplication via clipping and multiple entity docking didn't cause excessive lag, do you think we'd even be having this discussion?

As for intentions in PVP go?
I've also personally seen one of the more infamous "oh-so-hardcore meta pvp" filth keep ramming my station in the hopes he'd lag me out. (Apparently I was being unsportsmanlike, not dropping building the stuff I was interested in, and not leaving a protected home base to fight him, -despite being a fresh arrival on the server, posessing no materiel to shoot back with- when HE desperately needed a boost to his frail and quite possibly deeply wounded ego)
Creep was outta luck though; Having a life and a job, I was able to build a considerable better PC than his one must have been.

And I can tell you these things despite being a VERY rare visitor to public servers.
I'm sure most of you have seen way more.

I've had this same scenario play out several times when I was active on multi-player.

I've also seen what I call "area denial" builds; Objects that deter players from flying into certain areas via intense lag/FPS loss.

 

[Reilly Reese]

This last string of posts are still totally irrelevant to both the ship and the complete and possibly purposeful missing of its point going on here.

Its not about whether someone should do something and what admins should do about that.

It's about pointing out existing issues that the game should be able to prevent and at least making a config that reduces the gap between a meta ship and a standard ship.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

This last string of posts are still totally irrelevant to both the ship and the complete and possibly purposeful missing of its point going on here.

Its not about whether someone should do something and what admins should do about that.

It's about pointing out existing issues that the game should be able to prevent and at least making a config that reduces the gap between a meta ship and a standard ship.

True. Any server admin who allows borderline-weaponized lag really isn't doing his/her job.

 

[Scypio]

Gosh you're still trying to have the last word while agreeing to have none.

 

[Tsnonak]

 

[Nauvran]

View attachment 54631

"No meta-crap"
right so now we're not allowed to build systems, wait fuck we cant even build because even with building there are more effective ways of doing it
Schema might as well just put the game in the bin then

 

[Az14el]

ahh yes the old clearly defined "meta crap", where everyone can agree on what it is with but 2 words.
Did someone unironically write that somewhere or was that img a joke that went over my head?

 

[Reilly Reese]

View attachment 54631

 

[The_Owl]

View attachment 54631

Spoiler

Quite possibly one of the worst, most trollish and quite frankly, stupid posts i've seen this month over alot of places. Take your L and leave

 

[Crashmaster]

Did someone unironically write that somewhere or was that img a joke that went over my head?

Super cereal; https://forum.letskautsch.de/index.php?thread/916-server-rules-english/

 

[Tsnonak]

Of course I would not expect any "elite-meta-exploiting-pvper" to understand any of this, but it is quite simple...

1. It is a "Fair-Play" server, we would like to at least see a bare minimum-standard of "sportsmanship" on the server, which as it seems, people who build "crap" like this, have no regard for and are simply not wanted on the server.
2. Considering the current un-optimised-buggy-exploitable-state of SM, "crap" like this is simply not wanted on the server.
3. In reality; actual players that actually play on MP-servers seem to have no interest in "crap" like this, people that use "crap" like this seem to be the actual "minority", and are simply not wanted on the server.

"meta-crap" is the perfect terminology, it basically covers it all in two words, very clearly...
The rule is there to amuse people like you(you know who you are), the rest don't gaf about it.