Read by Council Hinder design theft

    Erth Paradine

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    Thats my major problem with this. I maybe log into a server once a week, if that(when i have internet at all which isnt often lately, this is the most internet use ive had in four months, most of the time i dont have any because of my job), if i know my friends are on, and i seldom build a new ship on a live server unless its a build server. when it comes to RP or pvp servers, i use ships ive already made, and blueprinted, its easier that way, and it allows me to have some time to get the resources for them when i play.
    At some point, a balance between online and offline play needs to be fairly accommodated. Especially if the end-results of more balanced accommodations leads to broader design strategy exposures, right?

    I suppose the question is: how often do you truly steal a ship, and then integrate some interesting design quirk into it? How complicated are these design elements, and is there a particular reason you cannot use screenshots to capture the essence of a design prior to efforts at offline replication?

    Or framed another way: you see a beautiful sculpture in the art gallery, and you want to integrate some of its elements into your work. Do you get to take that sculpture home with you? Or do you maybe consider taking an art class, which happens to be held in the same room as that sculpture? Or is your camera good enough to capture what catches your eye.
     
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    At some point, a balance between online and offline play needs to be fairly accommodated. Especially if the end-results of more balanced accommodations leads to broader design strategy exposures, right?

    I suppose the question is: how often do you truly steal a ship, and then integrate some interesting design quirk into it? How complicated are these design elements, and is there a particular reason you cannot use screenshots to capture the essence of a design prior to efforts at offline replication?

    Or framed another way: you see a beautiful sculpture in the art gallery, and you want to integrate some of its elements into your work. Do you get to take that sculpture home with you?
    Awwww that is a very qood question actually.

    The design element i am talking about right now and one im actively using a ship(this time not stolen, cant get onto a server to even try or i would have) are shield like wing elements, its not that complicated, but i keep having to look at it, and the pieces over and over to fix it.

    Screenshots dont work for me when it comes to that, but that is a personnel problem, and im sure not a common one, nor should it be something that prevents this either.


    100% honesty, every ship ive stolen, ive integrated something from it into one of my designs at some point. i still have turrets that i nabbed off a ship a few months ago that i have yet to actually take apart, but i will be for the raven lord, since its big enough to handle the size they are.
     

    Erth Paradine

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    Awwww that is a very qood question actually.

    The design element i am talking about right now and one im actively using a ship(this time not stolen, cant get onto a server to even try or i would have) are shield like wing elements, its not that complicated, but i keep having to look at it, and the pieces over and over to fix it.

    Screenshots dont work for me when it comes to that, but that is a personnel problem, and im sure not a common one, nor should it be something that prevents this either.

    100% honesty, every ship ive stolen, ive integrated something from it into one of my designs at some point. i still have turrets that i nabbed off a ship a few months ago that i have yet to actually take apart, but i will be for the raven lord, since its big enough to handle the size they are.
    On the turrets topic, nothing in this proposal would prevent you from still doing the same thing: remove turrets from a stolen ship, and re-dock them to another. In-fact, the latest evolution of this idea would accommodate you saving a "repair design" of your own ship, with someone else's protected blueprints; you would just need to detach (or reverse-engineer/rebuild) those turrets before trying to save a portable blueprint.

    Your point about needing to revisit/review a build is a good one. Try duplicating TT Demo Platform - Display Demo with just screenshots...although even with this example, the OP would not hinder your ability to duplicate the works of ToasterBorst , as they've shared it broadly.
     
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    On the turrets topic, nothing in this proposal would prevent you from still doing the same thing: remove turrets from a stolen ship, and re-dock them to another.

    Your point about needing to revisit/review a build is a good one. Try duplicating TT Demo Platform - Display Demo with just screenshots...although even with this example, the OP would not hinder your ability to duplicate the works of ToasterBorst , as they've shared it broadly.
    That brings up a problem in its self, turrets are part of a ship too arent they? shouldnt they also receive that same protection?

    And that is also true, but what if that person had never shared it? I mean you could try screenshotting it, or im sure if you had some sort of recording software you could literally record yourself taking it apart, and then rebuilding it if you had to.
     

    Erth Paradine

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    That brings up a problem in its self, turrets are part of a ship too arent they? shouldnt they also receive that same protection?
    ...
    The topic of turrets (or other docked entities) was covered a few pages back. Basically: at the time of spawn, it inherits whatever was set for the root core.

    ...
    And that is also true, but what if that person had never shared it? I mean you could try screenshotting it, or im sure if you had some sort of recording software you could literally record yourself taking it apart, and then rebuilding it if you had to.
    ...
    "...hey dude, that's a really awesome display. Will you teach me?"
     
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    The topic of turrets (or other docked entities) was covered a few pages back. Basically: at the time of spawn, it inherits whatever was set for the root core.



    "...hey dude, that's a really awesome display. Will you teach me?"
    Alright that makes sense for turrets, and it works.
     
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    Dr. Whammy

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    "...hey dude, that's a really awesome display. Will you teach me?"
    Nailed it...

    I can't speak for everyone but as opposed as I am to someone insta-copying my designs, I will assist anyone who asks me how to build something in StarMade.
    All anyone has to do is ask and be ready to take good notes.

    There is a big difference between being a lazy copy cat and someone who is actively trying to become a better builder. I tend to favor those who are the latter.

    If someone approaches me; wanting to learn my methods, then takes the time to learn to build the same way I do, I'll have a lot more respect for them as an artist; even if their designs start to look a lot like mine. After all, you've earned the knowledge so I can't be mad.
     
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    Spoolooni

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    Nailed it...

    I can't speak for everyone but as opposed as I am to someone insta-copying my designs, I will assist anyone who asks me how to build something in StarMade.
    All anyone has to do is ask and be ready to take good notes.

    There is a big difference between being a lazy copy cat and someone who is actively trying to become a better builder. I tend to favor those who are the latter.

    If someone approaches me; wanting to learn my methods, then takes the time to learn to build the same way I do, I'll have a lot more respect for them as an artist; even if their designs start to look a lot like mine. After all, you've earned the knowledge so I can't be mad.
    It's been mentioned that the highest from of flattery is having a particular composition #stolen.
     

    Dr. Whammy

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    It's been mentioned that the highest from of flattery is having a particular composition #stolen.
    It's funny how the lines between "flattery", malice and blatant disrespect have become so blurred. If someone says, "Hey, you have a nice looking bike" then cuts the chain lock and steals it when you're not looking, how flattered would you feel?
     

    Spoolooni

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    It's funny how the lines between "flattery", malice and blatant disrespect have become so blurred. If someone says, "Hey, you have a nice looking bike" then cuts the chain lock and steals it when you're not looking, how flattered would you feel?
    No no, #stolen is a meme thats an exaggeration of inspiration. When I see a particular design on someone's ship that I like, I will apply their idea to my own creation. Hence in some of Saber's or Raiben's videos, the word "stolen" is use a form of creative banter that involves a favored composition.

    I didn't mean it that way you mentioned. F#@! that, that's just being an asshole at that point haha.
     

    Dr. Whammy

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    Sorry, (inserts foot into mouth) I'm not up to date on all this new online lingo. But yes, I agree; if someone takes the time to imitate your designs, you must be doing something right. ;)

    That's why I like this community so much. For the most part, people here bounce ideas off of each other and then come up with their own variant of designs they like. When an improvement is made, the ideas flow in reverse; causing and endless stream of creative flow.
     

    Edymnion

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    Or framed another way: you see a beautiful sculpture in the art gallery, and you want to integrate some of its elements into your work. Do you get to take that sculpture home with you? Or do you maybe consider taking an art class, which happens to be held in the same room as that sculpture? Or is your camera good enough to capture what catches your eye.
    My phone has an app that lets me build 3D models from pictures I take.

    I have on more than one occasion scanned a large piece of art in this way, then printed out a replica on my 3D printer.
     

    Erth Paradine

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    My phone has an app that lets me build 3D models from pictures I take.

    I have on more than one occasion scanned a large piece of art in this way, then printed out a replica on my 3D printer.
    Was the artist OK with your duplication? Did you sell or give away your duplicate, as your own original work? Did you distribute duplicates in a medium where the original artist is competing for compensation? Did your app also determine how any internal wiring was run? Did the printer apply such wiring/lighting/controlls/buttons/switches as well?
     
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    Edymnion

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    Point is I still made and modified a copy of the work for my own private use.

    And I do not feel bad about this in any way.

    As I do not feel bad in any way about taking a publicly available blueprint and doing whatever I want with it, nor do I feel bad if someone takes one of mine and does whatever they want with it. If I didn't want everyone and their brother doing whatever they wanted with it, it would never have gotten in their hands in the first place.
     

    Spoolooni

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    Correct me if I am wrong, is it possible for people to save blueprints of your ship via stealing your ship in game?
     

    Dr. Whammy

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    Correct me if I am wrong, is it possible for people to save blueprints of your ship via stealing your ship in game?
    Yes. In fact, that's that's a big part part of our concern. Some of us do not want it to be that easy for someone to copy our work. That's why we had the talk about having to go through the trouble of manually reverse engineering a ship to make a copy of it rather than just clicking a single button.
     

    Spoolooni

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    Yes. In fact, that's that's a big part part of our concern. Some of us do not want it to be that easy for someone to copy our work. That's why we had the talk about having to go through the trouble of manually reverse engineering a ship to make a copy of it rather than just clicking a single button.
    Ah- seems like the only way to protect your work is to sketchfab your model and protect your work on their platform. It's a bit silly how Starmade clearly states the ships we create on their program is our creative content yet they aren't prioritizing the concerns around intellectual property such as blueprint theft.
     

    Dr. Whammy

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    Ah- seems like the only way to protect your work is to sketchfab your model and protect your work on their platform. It's a bit silly how Starmade clearly states the ships we create on their program is our creative content yet they aren't prioritizing the concerns around intellectual property such as blueprint theft.
    Actually, they now say the exact opposite in the End User License Agreement. In the EULA, they specifically state that anything posted in community content can be used or modified by Schine. They also warn against posting anything in community content or uploading to multi-player that you do not want made public or used against you.

    Based on the EULA alone, it doesn't look like they recognize our concerns over intellectual property use.
     

    Spoolooni

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    Actually, they now say the exact opposite in the End User License Agreement. In the EULA, they specifically state that anything posted in community content can be used or modified by Schine. They also warn against posting anything in community content or uploading to multi-player that you do not want made public or used against you.

    Based on the EULA alone, it doesn't look like they recognize our concerns over intellectual property use.
    Well, I can understand why they are specifically stating what you post on community dock can be used by them. Facebook actually has a similar EULA in a sense that they partially "own" what you put on their social platform in order to protect themselves from bigger companies that put their concept art or use their platform to advertise their IP. Let us say Facebook did not state they had rights to the IP and decides to one day show a slideshow of their new wall-promoting program to the public sphere, all those corporate IP's that happen to be on their page could indirectly cause them a lawsuit. I can understand Schine protecting themselves by stating that and I find it reasonable.

    However, what you create on Starmade is still technically your creative work, and that's enough to warrant concerns around blueprint theft.
     

    Dr. Whammy

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    Well, I can understand why they are specifically stating what you post on community dock can be used by them. Facebook actually has a similar EULA in a sense that they partially "own" what you put on their social platform in order to protect themselves from bigger companies that put their concept art or use their platform to advertise their IP. Let us say Facebook did not state they had rights to the IP and decides to one day show a slideshow of their new wall-promoting program to the public sphere, all those corporate IP's that happen to be on their page could indirectly cause them a lawsuit. I can understand Schine protecting themselves by stating that and I find it reasonable.

    However, what you create on Starmade is still technically your creative work, and that's enough to warrant concerns around blueprint theft.
    Agreed. I am in full support of protected blueprints. Schine is of no concern of any of us. While they may use our work to improve the game (NPC fleet submissions for example) they aren't going to directly impact our experience in multi-player. The purpose of this thread is to allow for in-game profit from ship manufacturing and to either prohibit or de-incentivize malicious and lazy players from stealing other players' work.