Game Balance DISCUSSION

[Ithirahad]

Turrets need to be re balanced, they are basically useless for anything other then getting shot off.

I suggest a further reduction of the shield sharing % to 10%

Turrets are smaller and easier to shoot off a ship, shield sharing doesn't change this.

Is this some kind of joke? Yes, turrets are smaller and easier to shoot off... And they also turn really fast and have no turnrate penalty for being huge and don't even have to be aimed. The balance is fine; if anything needs fixing it's AI but that's an issue for later on.

 

[Keptick]

Is this some kind of joke? Yes, turrets are smaller and easier to shoot off... And they also turn really fast and have no turnrate penalty for being huge and don't even have to be aimed. The balance is fine; if anything needs fixing it's AI but that's an issue for later on.

Right? Not to mention that it's practically perfect auto-aim (if you don't play with the horrendous default setting). Besides, anything is going to suck if it's not built/used properly. Turrets can be extremely potent, and that was proved during the last starside competition.

 

[Malacodor]

Is this some kind of joke? Yes, turrets are smaller and easier to shoot off... And they also turn really fast and have no turnrate penalty for being huge and don't even have to be aimed. The balance is fine; if anything needs fixing it's AI but that's an issue for later on.

Huge turrets require more rail mass enhancers, which for me counts as a penalty. But I think the real problem with turrets is that neither the AI nor logic can activate defensive effects and that the defensive ion effect doesn't affect shared shields. Thus turrets are easy prey for weapons with offensive ion. Before conducting further balancing changes we should wait for these three bugs to be fixed.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

Is this some kind of joke? Yes, turrets are smaller and easier to shoot off... And they also turn really fast and have no turnrate penalty for being huge and don't even have to be aimed. The balance is fine; if anything needs fixing it's AI but that's an issue for later on.

About a month late, and that post was also late, considering I was unaware of the fact they further reduced the shield sharing to 25%

I suggest you get off my ass and stop sending your friends to rate that post as funny.

 

[Ithirahad]

I'm hardly on your ass, and I didn't send anyone to do anything. I don't operate like that.

 

[godmars]

Not to mention that it's practically perfect auto-aim

Probably my biggest beef with turrets. They really shouldn't be better shots than a player in most circumstances

 

[Ghent96]

Modular ships would be awesome to see more of, dockable and interchangeable engines, yes and more yes...

...except...

Entity lag. It seems in every experiment I've tried, the number of docked entities drastically increases server lag and collisions, still. This was supposedly fixed, but I don't think it is. A single-entity ship is processed by the server much faster than the same size ship including many entities. Until the rail system changes to truly and finally fix all of the collision errors and excess/laggy processing the servers are doing with rail entities, I can't justify a slight engine, power, or shield boost on my ships with all the extra lag or server instability it will cause for other players around me.
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So in the end the effect would be to decouple ships' DPS somewhat from their power recharge. That doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Some servers have tried a mod to power reactors = 0, and power caps = 'huge increase' so that the power capacitors are basically your batteries or fuel. They have not been too popular so far. :/

 

[Valiant70]

Delete the thruster patch. It has hurt small ships too much, and not balanced huge ships enough. There should be a softcap / plateau on thrust, instead, with thrust levels going back to pre-patch.

Directional thrust should be accomplished by the orientation that we lay down thruster modules in. Take away the "R" key on thruster blocks. Take away the thruster menu. Always make a game less complicated when you can, and do things that make sense. Just let thrust be 'static' per ship design, per blueprint, based on block orienation.

Inside of this is also top speed. This should never be determined by thrust. It should be static, and set by the server config. Thrust should give acceleration, which determines how fast you reach your top speed. Doesn't matter if you have 3 blocks or 3 million - your top speed should be the same.

 

[PriZm]

Probably my biggest beef with turrets. They really shouldn't be better shots than a player in most circumstances

Indeed. Bobby AI doesnt need time to lock on with missiles and is not handicaped if many nav indicators are close to the "target". they also have no problems hitting ships when their movement is stuttering because of lags etc. I can only see one use, where bobby AI should actually be better than a human player, and that is in AMS turrets. In any other scenario, it makes no sense from a gameplay/balance point of view.

edit: almost forgot another important aspect. bobby ai can aim multiple weapons computers at the same time. that way, you can make super power efficient waffle cannons with each output/group using its own computer on AI controlled turrets, giving the bobby AI even more of an edge compared to human players...

 

[Aynslei]

Give me a discussion on warpgate range and stuff! Like the map visibility.

I have topics on the matter, just wanted to get the ball rolling.

 

[ltmauve]

I personally don't see the point of max jumpgate distance. Max jumpdrive distance I do get (and I'd personally increase the range to 16 or 32 sectors).

 

[Ghent96]

Indeed. Bobby AI doesnt need time to lock on with missiles and is not handicaped if many nav indicators are close to the "target". they also have no problems hitting ships when their movement is stuttering because of lags etc. I can only see one use, where bobby AI should actually be better than a human player, and that is in AMS turrets. In any other scenario, it makes no sense from a gameplay/balance point of view.

edit: almost forgot another important aspect. bobby ai can aim multiple weapons computers at the same time. that way, you can make super power efficient waffle cannons with each output/group using its own computer on AI controlled turrets, giving the bobby AI even more of an edge compared to human players...

I Disagree. Turrets should be better shots than players, BECAUSE of many of these reason: lag, entity confusion/spam, faster lock on, better aim. Turrets have inherent down-balance in the game due to less shield sharing, more energy use by rail mass enhancers, and the faction block bug (unless you have a faction block on base and barrel both). Turrets or docked AI guns are the best way to allow players with slower comps and connections to compete effectively in combat with other AI or players, especially in crowded sectors or around large stations or planets. Until the game is heavily, heavily, massively optimized... (never? :P ) turrets must retain these bonuses.

besides... you can set the AI accuracy in configs ;p

 

[PriZm]

well, you already said it: All of this won't be necessary anymore, once turrets work properly and the game's performance was optimized. Until then, i'm fine with how they work.
Btw... turrets use far less power than player controlled cannons, when it comes to waffle arrangements and if you build them correctly ^^
they basically only have advantages. The only thing that doesnt make them imbalanced atm, is that they will get stuck or produce lags because of some collision calculations etc.
Imo, piloting and aiming skills of the PC should have a huge impact on the outcome of a battle/dogfight.

 

[godmars]

I Disagree. Turrets should be better shots than players, BECAUSE of many of these reason: lag, entity confusion/spam, faster lock on, better aim. Turrets have inherent down-balance in the game due to less shield sharing, more energy use by rail mass enhancers, and the faction block bug (unless you have a faction block on base and barrel both). Turrets or docked AI guns are the best way to allow players with slower comps and connections to compete effectively in combat with other AI or players, especially in crowded sectors or around large stations or planets. Until the game is heavily, heavily, massively optimized... (never? :p ) turrets must retain these bonuses.

besides... you can set the AI accuracy in configs ;p

I don't really get your point, many turrets are one of the main causes of lag and entity spam. How is making them better shots than 99% of the playerbase going to improve that

 

[Ghent96]

...because, during frame rate lag, a good turrets is the only way you can actually fight.

Besides, fewer and bigger turrets will cause less lag.

Better turrets design will cause less collision detection checks/ errors/ lag. Also,, if the devs would optimize Collison detection with turrets and rail entities, we would see a huge performance gain.

 

[Ithirahad]

Radical changes for 100% slave combos:
- Give CM and and BM double damage with no additional power draw. Shotguns will probably still suck. Tighten the spread much tighter.
- Halve CC fire rate but double damage, to reduce that ridiculous fire rate.

Other:
- Give all weapons inherent push effect. The Push Effect slave can increase this even further I suppose.
- Push Pulse : Reduces rotation rate temporarily on hit. Maybe 50% slower. I don't know, I guess it was always OP. If it's going to be a debuff, it can't have the previous OP Push Pulse/Cannon combo.
- Triple effect strength of Push and Pull slave effect combos.

Nobody would ever use anything other than Cannon/Cannon in that case. :\

 

[Malacodor]

Nobody would ever use anything other than Cannon/Cannon in that case. :\

Half fire rate and double damage wouldn't change the DPS. It would hamper PD turrets, though.

 

[BDLS]

Nobody would ever use anything other than Cannon/Cannon in that case. :\

You got me all confused because I posted that in a different thread, haha.

Same DPS, just less pew flinging through space.

Hampering CC PD is ok in my book.

 

[Comr4de]

Nobody would ever use anything other than Cannon/Cannon in that case. :\

We used it on LCB and we were incredibly satisfied with the results. It helped people use weapons that weren't cannon cannon.

Also BDLS, I believe we reduced the range on cannon/cannon as well. I don't remember how hard tho

 

[Keptick]

We used it on LCB and we were incredibly satisfied with the results. It helped people use weapons that weren't cannon cannon.

Also BDLS, I believe we reduced the range on cannon/cannon as well. I don't remember how hard tho

I bet that it reduced projectile spam lag as well.