Disabling Systems after HP % is Pointless, PART TWO!

[Mered4]

I am reposting this thread per Crusade's request:
"No need to re-ignite this. To the OP, please start a new thread. Next time can we please keep it on topic.
Locked."

The OP:
Seriously. Why is this even in the game? This is a game that involves destroying blocks. If you haven't tested the HP system yet, you need to kill about half the opponents ship to overheat his core and then kill him with swarmers or turrets or whatever. That's right. I said HALF. I don't know about you, but when half of my ship is gone, it doesn't work. Especially if the computers are hit - then I'm a sitting duck.

Right now, if you hit 55% Structural HP, your base systems (thrust, power, and shields) basically stop working. So, as if losing half the mass on your ship and probably all your weapons and effect computers wasn't bad enough, now you cannot move.

*sarcasm*
I was doing just fine until I lost my thrust!
*/sarcasm*

Here's my point:

The disabling of systems after a certain percentage of structural damage is completely pointless because those systems can be destroyed by the enemy anyway. They probably have already. Like I said earlier: HALF YOUR SHIP. It's gone. I'd be gone at 25% shields, tbh. I'm not repairing that. Are you kidding?

TL;DR

It's pointless and should be removed. Give us Fleet Control! :D
[DOUBLEPOST=1434912419,1434912327][/DOUBLEPOST]The last post in the thread before it was locked:

Anyone can ask anyone to help with anything. Whether you help is your own decision.

I'm not here to volunteer my time in blissful ignorance for the "greater good" of Starmade. I'm asking for some accountability on the part of Schine. Come clean about the fact that YOU DO NOT HAVE A PLAN (which I've already got evidence for, but they just refuse to admit), and maybe we can start to rebuild from the terrible mess you've made of this wonderful game.

I just received word that our server is crashing every hour or so due to the new patch. Fantastic.

 

[Zeno9141]

I'm not here to volunteer my time in blissful ignorance for the "greater good" of Starmade. I'm asking for some accountability on the part of Schine. Come clean about the fact that YOU DO NOT HAVE A PLAN (which I've already got evidence for, but they just refuse to admit), and maybe we can start to rebuild from the terrible mess you've made of this wonderful game.

I just received word that our server is crashing every hour or so due to the new patch. Fantastic.

Not to derail the thread completely, but just saying: the devs have had a plan, and a roadmap for a really long time. There's even a public roadmap. And besides, adding one or two quick features in a rush doesn't mean the game is ruined.

 

[Mered4]

Not to derail the thread completely, but just saying: the devs have had a plan, and a roadmap for a really long time. There's even a public roadmap. And besides, adding one or two quick features in a rush doesn't mean the game is ruined.

Please go read the rest of the other thread. Please. That's not anywhere close to what I'm insinuating.

 

[Crusade]

Good, now that it's back on track:

The roadmap that is available is a short list of short/medium term goals of Starmade. As far as I know, the final 'idea' for Starmade is not set in stone. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The game will obviously be based around space exploration, building and combat. It will not turn into 'Cake Tycoon 2017'

As for features that are buggy/missing; Welcome to alpha, where the game you want is not the game you get.

NOW, the HP system, the juicy little bit of golden deliciousness.

The system encourages better builds (ships that can survive and function while missing a ludicrous amount of systems), I for one like the idea that my thrust will suffer if my systems are damaged, even if the thruster group itself is completely intact. It adds a derpy level of strategy to the game, and that is very welcome.

Like I said earlier; alpha game.

Before you go haywire about 'Alpha isn't an excuse' Let me butt in there, It is. Alpha is a stage of development where the core mechanics of the game are being put into place, and those features being changed/balanced and modified to fit the game over time.

I hope this conveys the thoughts in my mind, at 5am. Have a nice day/night.

 

[Pacific_Jim]

Honestly, the debuff is slight enough that it doesn't feel crippling, while still having a bit of a presence. I'm not especially fussed by it either way, but it's not really a bother. My disappearing weapon computers on some of my ships on the other hand is a much bigger penalty :P

 

[Mered4]

Good, now that it's back on track:

The roadmap that is available is a short list of short/medium term goals of Starmade. As far as I know, the final 'idea' for Starmade is not set in stone. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The game will obviously be based around space exploration, building and combat. It will not turn into 'Cake Tycoon 2017'

As for features that are buggy/missing; Welcome to alpha, where the game you want is not the game you get.

NOW, the HP system, the juicy little bit of golden deliciousness.

The system encourages better builds (ships that can survive and function while missing a ludicrous amount of systems), I for one like the idea that my thrust will suffer if my systems are damaged, even if the thruster group itself is completely intact. It adds a derpy level of strategy to the game, and that is very welcome.

Like I said earlier; alpha game.

Before you go haywire about 'Alpha isn't an excuse' Let me butt in there, It is. Alpha is a stage of development where the core mechanics of the game are being put into place, and those features being changed/balanced and modified to fit the game over time.

I hope this conveys the thoughts in my mind, at 5am. Have a nice day/night.

Unlike Criss, you just ignored my arguments and cited your own opinion as golden when it comes to game balance.
You and the rest of the buddy squad can go around telling yourselves how great the builds are - but you have to be realistic. THIS IS ALPHA. If you can't accept that your work is flawed, you need to resign and rethink your principles. One of the basic building blocks of interacting with other people is admitting you make mistakes. If you are unable to do this, I really have little to no confidence in your ability to function in any leadership role in any organization.

Honestly, the debuff is slight enough that it doesn't feel crippling, while still having a bit of a presence. I'm not especially fussed by it either way, but it's not really a bother. My disappearing weapon computers on some of my ships on the other hand is a much bigger penalty :p

Saying that it "isn't that bad" is not a reason to keep it in the game. I'm asking for the gameplay variety that this feature adds. I've already shown that boarding is a gimmick, so that's not on the list. What else is there?

 

[Pacific_Jim]

It adds a bit of immersion, as your ship begins to take damage its performance gets worse all round.

And I wouldn't say boarding is a gimmick. Incomplete, but that's too be expected. Something I would recommend is speeding up the self destruct sequence, forcing players to disable (or head on while its fully intact) a ship if they want to loot its pieces. Some ways to stop people cheesing borders would be nice too.

 

[Mered4]

It adds a bit of immersion, as your ship begins to take damage its performance gets worse all round.

And I wouldn't say boarding is a gimmick. Incomplete, but that's too be expected. Something I would recommend is speeding up the self destruct sequence, forcing players to disable (or head on while its fully intact) a ship if they want to loot its pieces. Some ways to stop people cheesing borders would be nice too.

In both those situations it is ridiculously easier to just have a salvage array and a stop beam on your ship and salvage the ship after it overheats.

What evidence do you have that boarding isn't a gimmick that won't be used in regular PvP combat?

 

[therimmer96]

You and the rest of the buddy squad can go around telling yourselves how great the builds are - but you have to be realistic. THIS IS ALPHA. If you can't accept that your work is flawed, you need to resign and rethink your principles. One of the basic building blocks of interacting with other people is admitting you make mistakes. If you are unable to do this, I really have little to no confidence in your ability to function in any leadership role in any organization.

You're acting like he is a developer. The council wasnt even aware that boarding was happening, it was a small, extra surprise.

 

[Puddles]

Unlike Criss, you just ignored my arguments and cited your own opinion as golden when it comes to game balance.
You and the rest of the buddy squad shroomites can go around telling yourselves how great the builds are - but you have to be realistic. THIS IS ALPHA. If you can't accept that your work is flawed, you need to resign and rethink your principles. One of the basic building blocks of interacting with other people is admitting you make mistakes. If you are unable to do this, I really have little to no confidence in your ability to function in any leadership role in any organization.

 

[Mered4]

Puddles, we in the MushroomFleet enjoy having intense disagreements all the time. Some of my best buddies there are guys I regularly have shouting matches with. Iron sharpens iron. We disagree on a lot of things, but we're all here to play Starmade. Some want to help make it better, and they like to bounce their ideas off of the playerbase for feedback. We don't condemn anyone - Raiben, Saber, or Dalmont can come back at anytime and we would welcome them as long as they didn't cause trouble.

 

[Pacific_Jim]

In both those situations it is ridiculously easier to just have a salvage array and a stop beam on your ship and salvage the ship after it overheats.

What evidence do you have that boarding isn't a gimmick that won't be used in regular PvP combat?

If the time frame before destruction were tighter you'd need a pretty hefty salvager to be able to pull that off. And salvaging a non-overheating ship is impossible, so stealing an intact ship is only possible through boarding. Salvage beams also can't pick up cargo or loot clouds.

And as for how viable it is in PvP, in its current state not really at all, long term maybe? Either way Starmade isn't a pure PvP game, and even if it's never properly viable against other players ship stealing is fun (it would be nice to have guards on the ships or something though).

 

[Mered4]

If the time frame before destruction were tighter you'd need a pretty hefty salvager to be able to pull that off. And salvaging a non-overheating ship is impossible, so stealing an intact ship is only possible through boarding. Salvage beams also can't pick up cargo or loot clouds.

And as for how viable it is in PvP, in its current state not really at all, long term maybe? Either way Starmade isn't a pure PvP game, and even if it's never properly viable against other players ship stealing is fun (it would be nice to have guards on the ships or something though).

You already could steal ships - when they were unfactioned. No one wants their ship stolen that they've slaved for hours creating or bringing into the game. It's fun for trolls, basically. Actual gameplay where you have PvP between factions fighting for territory? No. Boarding isn't going to happen. Sorry. You can try to force the feature if you like, but even then it will feel like a gimmick that is used in promotional videos.

 

[Puddles]

You already could steal ships - when they were unfactioned. No one wants their ship stolen that they've slaved for hours creating or bringing into the game. It's fun for trolls, basically. Actual gameplay where you have PvP between factions fighting for territory? No. Boarding isn't going to happen. Sorry. You can try to force the feature if you like, but even then it will feel like a gimmick that is used in promotional videos.

Would be great for taking down those single-person, mega doom-cubers. You know, things that might not happen on a server that openly bans for such minor things.

1 man factions not being able to grab a giant titan and level everything without challenge is a good thing, and a bit less than a gimmick.

 

[Winterhome]

Az, stay on topic, please.

Last thread, it devolved into conspiracy theories and attacking Schine. I don't see any reason it wouldn't this time around either, considering that it has the same starter and is a continuation of the prior thread rather than a restart.

This discussion isn't going to go anywhere any time soon. We have two parties that are desperately ignoring any points that the other makes while taking cheap shots at eachother, and it all boils down to council drama.


Anyhow, on-topic.

You can still fly half a ship perfectly fine. It works perfectly fine. It'll shoot (unless the weapons or weapons computers are gone), it'll fly (unless the thrusters are gone), it'll keep generating power. It's not as efficient as a full ship half of its original mass, but it works nonetheless.

In any sort of real ship, you have all sorts of fun things like fuel lines, power conduits, and the like running the length of the ship. Any damage to those would result in the entire ship losing significant functionality regardless of how much it has in the way of "redundant systems". You have to repair that damage for it to function at, at the very least, minimal capacity again. If your ship starts shutting down and you find you can't fly it at 80% or so, then you don't need to wait for it to hit 55% to get out and run to an escape pod. If you're good at ship design, you may easily have escape pods at multiple locations within the ship. Chances are at least *one* of the ones you can get to without dying is intact. You don't even need anything more than basic power, a thruster or two, and a fully charged jumpdrive on it. Problem solved, you're out of there and you're still alive.

As for boarding, I have every reason to believe that that was an easy thirty minute coding job, since it only hijacks functions that already exist in the game. Adding it did not cause any appreciable loss in progress in any other system.

We've given you all plenty of evidence that there is a plan in place. You've seen the old interviews. You know where the game is headed. Yet you cling to this bizarre belief, which I can't even begin to understand, that there's "no plan". If there were "no plan", then we wouldn't have constructible ships that we can fly around and shoot eachother with in the first place. If there were "no plan", then this would still be a space voxel deathmatch with death star cores.

 

[Mered4]

*removed for decency*

 

[MrFURB]

*Sigh* Darnit, you two, you're feeding each other like lovers. At least provide me with the knowledge that you respect the forum enough to attempt to stay on topic and away from this silliness. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't be here.

 

[Mered4]

*Sigh* Darnit, you two, you're feeding each other like lovers. At least provide me with the knowledge that you respect the forum enough to attempt to stay on topic and away from this silliness. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't be here.

When he has factual evidence to present, I'll listen. Until then, I hope he stays on topic with the HP system, because anything else is getting ignored.

 

[starhaiden]

typed the person that created two threads against crew boarding

 

[Mered4]

typed the person that created two threads against crew boarding

Brother, read the first line of the OP. :D
[DOUBLEPOST=1434922127,1434921702][/DOUBLEPOST]On advice from an unnamed source, I am removing my reply to Azereiah.