Brainstorm This Crew: Stations, bonuses, specialties, experience & expense.

[MacThule]

+1
Crew experience, specialties, additional console effects.

The additional console effects actually reflect things I *REPEATEDLY* find myself daydreaming about while playing. Hadn't thought about the crew XP & specialties but absolutely LOVE the idea. It makes me feel like the player would be the CEO or Lord of their own NPC group with specialists to manage, organize protect and employ. So intriguing.

 

[PizzaPress]

Weapons computers, turrets, manning ships, and fighting on planets and ships will all be functions of crew... The other stuff is just incentive for people to have crews beyond just a few weapons officers and security personnel.

The problem is, this feels kinda lazy. I'm sure there's plenty of other mechanics that can be introduced to make crew something helpful without just arbitrarily buffing crewed ships.

Am I the only one who feels that crew just sitting at stations and passively buffing the ship doesn't feel right? I feel like that's a task that would not necessitate the use of crew, the crew sitting there don't seem like they would feel like they're actually doing something, and are just machines part of the ship.

(And also no real decision to use or not use them. It doesn't add to the dynamic, and doesn't feel right IMO. Especially if it's tacked on to a previously functioning system, without adding depth.)

It's not just a matter of small buffs vs. large buffs. IMO, crew should not just sit at a station and give a passive buff. That just feels lazy, and is more of a computer's job. (An equal tradeoff for specialization might be good.)

(If you just wanna add maintenance(ugh), add fuel.)
There's plenty of jobs to perform, like having them re-align shields or repair the ship. But not just reinforce the shields or add to the armor strength. They should be active people, not passive machines.

 

[herr_phil]

I know what you mean by the crew bascially being reduced to another component that needs to be installed to tge ship. The problem with making them a bit more active is in the wayfinding problems I can forsee in a ship. No matter how carefully you build something in starmade there is always a bit of wonkiness when walking around a moving vessel. Compound this with a good size crew and it just won't work the way we want it to.

This can be tweaked to a degree if the crew had personalities and they talked to you. Some have even mentioned the idea of having to take care of your crew as far as food/fatigue goes. That alone would mean they are still components, but now they become higher maintainence for optimal efficiency.

I like the idea of the crew being able to assist you with repairs and boarding operations. Pulling a weapons officer off gunnery and instead on repair is an interesting tactical decision.

All of that would still be dependant on a well laid out ship and some way to keep them from leaking out of the ship however...

 

[MacThule]

I know what you mean by the crew bascially being reduced to another component that needs to be installed to tge ship. The problem with making them a bit more active is in the wayfinding problems I can forsee in a ship. No matter how carefully you build something in starmade there is always a bit of wonkiness when walking around a moving vessel. Compound this with a good size crew and it just won't work the way we want it to.

Remember "Ender's Game"? In Battle school the hallways had colored lights that told personnel where they were supposed to be going at any given time. So part of making a station or ship crew-worthy might be adding pathing blocks. That and ensuring hatches and corridors are wide and convenient enough to prevent pathing obstruction. Nothing wrong with that - most systems require a bit of skill to implement optimally.

 

[GaeasSon]

Remember "Ender's Game"? In Battle school the hallways had colored lights that told personnel where they were supposed to be going at any given time. So part of making a station or ship crew-worthy might be adding pathing blocks. That and ensuring hatches and corridors are wide and convenient enough to prevent pathing obstruction. Nothing wrong with that - most systems require a bit of skill to implement optimally.

This has been suggested before... Not that it doesn't have merit, (says one of the previous people to suggest it) But it didn't seem to get a lot of traction.

If I were the Dev... My version of the idea was a block with a sort of deck plate texture on the top and a ladder texture on one side. That way you could define a pathing map within your ship. Algorithms to navigate a defined map are much less complex than those necessary to generate a pathing map from an arbitrary 3 dimensional structure. Hmmm.

 

[MacThule]

This has been suggested before... Not that it doesn't have merit, (says one of the previous people to suggest it) But it didn't seem to get a lot of traction.

If I were the Dev... My version of the idea was a block with a sort of deck plate texture on the top and a ladder texture on one side. That way you could define a pathing map within your ship. Algorithms to navigate a defined map are much less complex than those necessary to generate a pathing map from an arbitrary 3 dimensional structure. Hmmm.

I like the ladder/path thing, but I was honestly thinking more of a block that NPCs would keep within a radius of or use as a pathing "landmark" more than a linear path, but your approach may be the only practical version. Hard to say.

 

[GaeasSon]

I like the ladder/path thing, but I was honestly thinking more of a block that NPCs would keep within a radius of or use as a pathing "landmark" more than a linear path, but your approach may be the only practical version. Hard to say.

Hardly the only way. Another version like yours that doesn't even require blocks would be to use a tool in creative mode to define and connect way-points within the ship. Store the waypoint data in a meta-array as a set of absolute coordinates relative to the core. Requires no blocks. It's not subject to ship damage... on the other hand, it's not subject to ship damage. You'd wind up with Daves walking down obliterated corridors to non-existent duty stations. I admire devotion to duty and all, but that would be creepy.

 

[Ithirahad]

Hardly the only way. Another version like yours that doesn't even require blocks would be to use a tool in creative mode to define and connect way-points within the ship. Store the waypoint data in a meta-array as a set of absolute coordinates relative to the core. Requires no blocks. It's not subject to ship damage... on the other hand, it's not subject to ship damage. You'd wind up with Daves walking down obliterated corridors to non-existent duty stations. I admire devotion to duty and all, but that would be creepy.

Might be a little expensive performance-wise, but you can always just check for block destruction near the path nodes or something. Break enough - or break the duty station block - and the path dematerializes.

 

[HappyTurtle]

In regards to the command station idea, I think it would be great if you could give commands to that ship, similar to the way you can give commands to individual crew

 

[jayman38]

Might be a little expensive performance-wise, but you can always just check for block destruction near the path nodes or something. Break enough - or break the duty station block - and the path dematerializes.

Or maybe have them perform repairs on their duty station room.

 

[BrotherLazarus]

Just stumbled across the clearly necro'd thread and I like it, with one caveat:

Penalties for suited crew is ludicrous. In essentially every science fiction story, novel, or show that isn't Star Trek/Star Wars levels of soft science fiction, when General Quarters sounds, all crew suits up to be prepared in case of a hull breach. All crew.

That means everyone from hydroponics on up to bridge command is wearing a helmet. We shouldn't be penalized for thinking in terms of crew survival--if (god forbid) oxygen systems or life support were added my crew's safety would be my first priority--there's no reason I should ignore their health and welfare; even if they're NPCs.

 

[GaeasSon]

Penalties for suited crew is ludicrous. ...

If I may defend my original thought. Heck yes. If you are on space you want to be in a pressure suit. My thought was not so much to penalize suited crew but to encourage captains to give them pressure and gravity. It is more difficult to get things done when your feet keep floating off, and your helmet fogs

Maybe zero-G training would be another skill they could learn, allowing them to give their bonuses even when helmeted. Or maybe some crew stations (bunks, commisary, med bay, etc) would require pressure and gravity to work

 

[BrotherLazarus]

If I may defend my original thought. Heck yes. If you are on space you want to be in a pressure suit. My thought was not so much to penalize suited crew but to encourage captains to give them pressure and gravity. It is more difficult to get things done when your feet keep floating off, and your helmet fogs

Maybe zero-G training would be another skill they could learn, allowing them to give their bonuses even when helmeted. Or maybe some crew stations (bunks, commisary, med bay, etc) would require pressure and gravity to work

That, I can get behind--they can't be in zero G and on acceleration couches all the time after all. They need time to unwind. I can totally agree with the off-duty areas needing gravity and more concerns than just seating arrangements and pressure suits.

I'm not sold on the whole atmo idea, though. SE has oxygen mechanics and they're absurdly easy to break--especially since I can never get my helmet to stay on in StarMade.

 

[Ithirahad]

I'm not sold on the whole atmo idea, though. SE has oxygen mechanics and they're absurdly easy to break--especially since I can never get my helmet to stay on in StarMade.

This is a bug, and actually not very hard to fix. I think helmets are supposed to be put on by right-clicking (and they have to stay in your hotbar) but for whatever reason they automatically get put on and taken off again if you have them selected. Also, pulling the helmet out of your hotbar will cause your character to take it off, but this is probably intended.

 

[ltmauve]

So, thought of something else for this
Officers.
Basically if you have a bunch (probably 5+) crew in a single department (weapons, thrust, repair, etc) you need an officer to prevent diminishing returns. Just another crew member whose job it is to manage a bunch of other crew.
They would also serve as the interface for that department. So rather than telling 10 engineers to focus on the jump drive, I just tell the chief engineer "Scotty I need warp drive in five minutes or we're all dead."

Also what are people's thoughts on training crew? As in just dropping them off at your station and saying "work on your hand-to-hand" or something like that.

 

[Ithirahad]

So, thought of something else for this
Officers.
Basically if you have a bunch (probably 5+) crew in a single department (weapons, thrust, repair, etc) you need an officer to prevent diminishing returns. Just another crew member whose job it is to manage a bunch of other crew.
They would also serve as the interface for that department. So rather than telling 10 engineers to focus on the jump drive, I just tell the chief engineer "Scotty I need warp drive in five minutes or we're all dead."

Also what are people's thoughts on training crew? As in just dropping them off at your station and saying "work on your hand-to-hand" or something like that.

I like all of these. Bonus points 'cause I'm a Trek fan, but in general this just seems like one more immersion thing I'd like to see.

 

[Lecic]

Also what are people's thoughts on training crew? As in just dropping them off at your station and saying "work on your hand-to-hand" or something like that.

I'd like training to take at least a little bit of time, and I'd like it to require actual player input. For example, you could have a training facility that improves weapon operation. It's got giant rock targets for weapons crew to blast away at. Or one that improves shield training by having a small gun that fires at a shielded object. Or maybe a facility that teaches crew how to keep a ship that's taken heavy damage online.

So, instead of going, "learn this" and then X minutes later they're masters, you have to actually train them. Since it takes time, too, towards the end of major wars you start having fewer trained crew in reserve.

If your crew take serious time to train, this could make things like capturing enemy crew for ransom something people might actually do, rather than just shooting them and the commander just going and buying another crew member from a shop.

I'd also like crew to be able to either master one thing, or be decent at many things, but not both. This gives a new decision to make when designing a crew- do you make crew that are very good at what they do, or do you make crew that can be reordered around if necessary but aren't as good at their jobs?

 

[nightrune]

I simply want them to learn like they do in FTL. It sucks when they die but you hire more and get back to work. It would be great if they have quips but they don't have to.

 

[BrotherLazarus]

I'd like training to take at least a little bit of time, and I'd like it to require actual player input. For example, you could have a training facility that improves weapon operation. It's got giant rock targets for weapons crew to blast away at. Or one that improves shield training by having a small gun that fires at a shielded object. Or maybe a facility that teaches crew how to keep a ship that's taken heavy damage online.

So, instead of going, "learn this" and then X minutes later they're masters, you have to actually train them. Since it takes time, too, towards the end of major wars you start having fewer trained crew in reserve.

If your crew take serious time to train, this could make things like capturing enemy crew for ransom something people might actually do, rather than just shooting them and the commander just going and buying another crew member from a shop.

I'd also like crew to be able to either master one thing, or be decent at many things, but not both. This gives a new decision to make when designing a crew- do you make crew that are very good at what they do, or do you make crew that can be reordered around if necessary but aren't as good at their jobs?

This is also a good idea.

A candidate training program that eventually gets upgraded to a shakedown cruise in pirate territory alongside more experienced crew before getting into actual warfare would also help more serious roleplayers grow attached to their crew.

Though perhaps a shipyard sim module, so that your candidate training school doesn't -kill- them if you accidentally dump a bit too much fire into that damaged craft.

 

[ltmauve]

I'd like training to take at least a little bit of time, and I'd like it to require actual player input.

The first point I agree with you. If I had written a detailed post I would have put that in there.
But how much player input with training is a good amount? Maybe ranking up requires the player to come around and "pass" the crew. Or maybe some crew will rank up after a few hours automatically but some crew require you to come over and give them a hand so they get it.
But having the player have to stand around and watch them do all their training is boring.

candidate training program that eventually gets upgraded to a shakedown cruise in pirate territory alongside more experienced crew before getting into actual warfare would also help more serious roleplayers grow attached to their crew.

hmm...
Candidate program? Gives me an idea.
Okay first off, let's make a Logistics department for a ship's crew. Cargo movers, Personnel officers, things of that nature. One of the positions would be Evaluator.
So your faction recruits crew every X faction turns (probably). They have randomized stats, obviously, but your faction recruits don't know their stats, until you assign them to a station, and then they only know their rating for that station. The Evaluator would reveal all the stats for your faction recruits, and give you the option to automatically sort crew by their stats, with one of the categories being "go home." So you can set it up so that only recruits with stats above a certain level go directly to your ships, while others are either rejected or trained.