CraftAU shutting down.

    DukeofRealms

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    • Schine
    I'd say it's not so much this as the fact that every supposedly cool feature, even if it took easily three times the intended two-week development cycle, ended up buggy, disappointing, and unfinished. Big dodecahedron planets? Laggy and useless. Fleets? Buggy, and they can't even hold a command when the issuing player gets offline, meaning that for the one main purpose we wanted fleets for (base defense when offline) we might as well leave our AI ships with just the BOBBY AI and no fleet like before, meaning that they can be lead away from the base... so the fleets are mostly useless too except the carrier features, and the unloaded combat that was mentioned as the 'second part of the fleet update' never came. NPC factions? No reward for helping them, no reward for destroying them, and server owners can't even make them have wars otherwise their database will be spammed up with tons and tons of ships, because again... no unloaded combat, and apparently Schine's focus has shifted yet again. So, useless as well. Cargo? There's no real ingame economy, so useless as well (though it is a really good system). Shop trading? Just removes player agency, really, as we can't even send our own trade ships to fill out orders.
    Sure, and that's what I indicated in my comments about incomplete and unstable features. We know they are incomplete (and probably buggy) before release. We release mainly framework for further development, what that means is that although a significant addition might currently only add very little for the user, it allows us to weave connecting systems together in the backend. Most of the development work has gone into that feature; however, it still needs balancing, fixing and additions here and there to properly function. Plenty of these incomplete features rely on other core systems that are not yet in the game, so furthering their development doesn't make a lot of sense. NPCs, Fleets, Planets are all on their first pass (although, the current planets have been ditched for a different direction). Yep, NPC factions need a second pass to be useful to the player, as they stand, the framework is there for us to incorporate linking features.

    Would I like to see features that are more useful to players on the first release? Of course, however, I have full trust in schema when it comes to how development is handled in the game. I'm not going to pretend it's the best solution for a game with an existing player base, but it is maintainable for a team of our size.

    that release was years ago now. have you put serious thought into the percentage of your potential audience youve already exhausted, given your consideration that its hard to get old players back?
    Yes, most of those were from a number of popular YouTubers covering the game. We've found it is, in fact, easier to get back customers from that period, than it is from any other. While 300,000 users might seem like a lot, it's actually quite small, the overwhelming majority of our potential market has not seen the game. I've evaluated it, and we've had outsiders evaluate it as well.

    _________

    On the power proposal, we knew there was going to be pushback. It doesn't matter how good the proposal or how much it would improve gameplay if done, some people will lose a significant portion of their work. So, of course, there will be a lot of community members who will resist such a proposal.

    We expected significant push back, more than we received. We are here to make StarMade the best game it can be, as according to our vision. Now, I'm not saying we're taking the proposal or the inevitable decision lightly, completely the opposite. We've evaluated that if we create a proposal that matches what we want to achieve and does it well, we will without hesitation, go for it. We've evaluated we're willing to take whatever consequences that entails. Some people are going to get frustrated and leave; some are going to find out that the game is heading in a direction that is not for them and some are going to double down on their support for the game. We certainly would like to avoid replacing something that will destroy player creations, and that does go into how we evaluate whether a replacement is worth it.

    We've been having power proposal meetings almost every day now; we're spending a lot of time coming up with this second proposal. Before we release the second proposal, we'll be releasing our end goals public document. We have an internal version which is quite wordy and refers to features/ideas that have not been made public yet (mainly because they are not set in stone), so a public version is currently being written. This document should help people see where we're heading in development. Hopefully, this will help players know where the game is heading, and assist them to evaluate if they want to stick with us. It'll be a very general document, no real specifics, but it should give an idea.

    As I mentioned in the previous power proposal, it's going to take a lot of planning to get it right, if that can be done at all. We might go through multiple proposals and find that it's not worth it, or we find one that fits. We're not going to be seeing a proposal replace the current one for many months (if at all). The first stage would be a demo version, enabled by config that will allow people to test it, without interfering with the current game.
     
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    While 300,000 users might seem like a lot, it's actually quite small, the overwhelming majority of our potential market has not seen the game. I've evaluated it, and we've had outsiders evaluate it as well.
    im not sure i agree with the evaluation, but the fact that youve looked into it satisfies me. thanks for the reply.
     

    DukeofRealms

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    im not sure i agree with the evaluation, but the fact that youve looked into it satisfies me. thanks for the reply.
    Consider this, the majority of registered players come from early 2013, most of those players come from a 5 day period. The second biggest catch of players is from a 3 day Steam EA release. 8 days of our advertisement has seen ~75% of all our registered players. It'd be pretty impressive if we managed to capture a significant portion of our potential market in 8 days, let alone the majority of it.

    Either way, we've had professionals look into it, in fact, those sorts of evaluations are sometimes mandatory when working with certain companies. When it comes to markets and advertising, I'll take the industry professionals advice. I'm not worried at all.
     
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    Consider this, the majority of registered players come from early 2013, most of those players come from a 5 day period. The second biggest catch of players is from a 3 day Steam EA release. 8 days of our advertisement has seen ~75% of all our registered players. It'd be pretty impressive if we managed to capture a significant portion of our potential market in 8 days, let alone the majority of it.

    Either way, we've had professionals look into it, in fact, those sorts of evaluations are sometimes mandatory when working with certain companies. I'm not worried at all.
    i understand your statement, i just dont have the same faith you do in your evaluation results. im still happy that youre considering it.
    [doublepost=1492471017,1492470543][/doublepost]
    It's not just my own evaluations, we've had multiple professionals evaluate our market. I'll stick with them.
    i expect no less, you dont know me and i dont claim to be a professional evaluator. nothing ive said here is an attempt to change your mind about anything.
     
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    Third if you really say that your builds are entirely about the power systems instead of rail and logic functions or other design stuff, you are basically a pvper that puts his stuff into cubeshells of grey standard armor.
    Dumbest analogy ever
     
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    Warning! Wall of text ahead! ;)

    tl;dr version: PEOPLE ARE BORED AS FUCK.

    Okay I am going to make it as simple as I can. As this topic is why a server, one of the games most popular, is shutting down and why players are leaving.

    Yes in some regards the power is a contributing factor, a small part of the greater whole. But the main reason, and pretty much the reason CraftAU is going is this:

    There were some technical reasons for CraftAU's decision to close down the server, insane memory use, crashes from AI spawn flooding etc. The game is a time sink of hand holding from an Admin point of view. Some minor issues can take hours of a Admin/Moderator's time (whatever term you prefer) to resolve through trial and error and detective work because some issues are not clear, or are clear but difficult to resolve because the console tells you what the error is but not where it is.

    I have sat there for hours myself having to watch players come and go until I see someone log off and the error disappear to know it's related to them. Then I have had to go to their location and spend hours looking at every little thing one by one until we found the offending error to fix it.
    (Pain in the ass when it's a large station with a lot of ships and entities docked)
    Tools meant to help like the 'Lag-o-Meter' are useless now, they tell you anything and everything is lagging the server except for what is actually causing the lag.

    That is the main issue from the running a server stand point......

    BUT BACK TO THE MAIN ISSUE. A MULTIPLAYER SERVER NEEDS PLAYERS, A GAME NEEDS GAMEPLAY o_O
    If a server has no players it is pointless having it. A complete waste of resources. So we need to look at the reasons players leave.
    It's not a matter of money or anything like that, it is a LACK OF PLAYERS.

    After SEVERAL YEARS of playing StarMade and almost nothing changing or being added in terms of GAMEPLAY, people have gotten bored with it, even the most dedicated. People get bored they stop playing. Especially when newer and more exciting things come along.

    GAMEPLAY WISE, (not building, not resource gathering, not systems, etc etc. not technical issues, but gameplay) StarMade has stagnated.
    and THIS I feel is what Schine really needs to address.

    While SM looks prettier and runs a bit better than it did when I first began playing several years ago. Gameplay wise it is EXACTLY the same as it was. Mine, Build, Fight some shitty server breaking boring AI, maybe PvP if you can get people to undock, WASH RINSE REPEAT.

    After a few years that gets boring as fuck. :rolleyes:

    We have a HUGE Universe, possibly the biggest in any game out there, and almost zero to do in it. No reasons to explore. Nothing to do except the repeating cycle above. :cry:

    Every system is essentially the same, nothing to explore planets for, no alien life to discover, no missions or quests, Station are only worth looting, and even then you have to buy the friggin' things after fighting for the right to salvage them as they stupidly become instantly derelict.
    And as mentioned before what gameplay there is, e.g fighting AI is boring and nearly always broken.
    We want something different to do. We want FUN. 5 odd years of "same shit, different day" got old a long time ago.
    Hell, there is no reason to explore any other Galaxies unless you want to just add to a servers hard drive space. 1 Galaxy at this point is more than enough.

    And how ridiculous and boring when you go to fight a pirate station all the freaking turrets fall off. (Hence why I rebuilt all default stations for CraftAU) And when you do fight them so many pirates spawn that it either makes taking a station down impossible unless you have a massive warship, or lags everything on the server until it crashes. o_O

    It stops being fun so people say "Fuck this I am out of here" :mad:

    Just feels like StarMade is going around in circles. Instead of getting new content, like missions, populated stations, fauna, reasons to play and explore other than resource gathering and combat, we just get the same stuff polished over and over.

    AS MANY HAVE SAID:
    Why did I spend hours, weeks and months building these ships when I have nothing to do with them....... well aside from use them to mine and fight over and over.

    But yes, at it's core, gameplay wise, StarMade 2017, is not that different to StarMade 2012.

    This is why other games both triple A, and Early Access alike, even buggy as hell keep players playing. Because they are always adding new content and things for players to do. (y)
    StarMade adds the same old same old over and over with a fresh coat of paint. We get Beta/pre-release content, when we should be seeing Alpha content. o_O
    Pretty consoles, corner lights and pipes are nice, but you know what? Shops with shop keepers that can give out missions would be a million times nicer. Cannot recall the last time I saw a shop keeper even that was not admin spawned. o_O

    But yes, this is the problem with StarMade and why people are mostly leaving, nothing has changed with gameplay, and they are BORED AS FUCK. New content has not been substantial at all if there has been any in the last 2 years. :rolleyes:

    By content I mean once again, gameplay, new stations that kind of thing. (n)
    Start giving us a reason to build and explore. Give us AI that is not shit and broken to fight, and please get rid of the goddamn old docking system and fix what stations you do have.

    MAKE STARMADE FUN. MAKE IT INTERESTING. (y)

    Seriously the bugs and balance issues are the least of this games problems. ;)
    [doublepost=1492495670,1492495467][/doublepost]Oh and if you make a roadmap. Maybe stick to it occasionally. ;)
     

    AndyP

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    RabidBat
    I answered most of the mentioned points in that last post already in the video comments.
    Read the replies there.
    I wont copy them in here as this totally goes offtopic then.

    - Andy
     
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    RabidBat
    I answered most of the mentioned points in that last post already in the video comments.
    Read the replies there.
    I wont copy them in here as this totally goes offtopic then.

    - Andy
    Yep, I will reply to you on my channel when I have a chance Andy.
    Appreciate you interacting with the community and always responding when you can. (y)
     
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    Well thanks for pointing out the obvious and contributing to the discussion buddy. :rolleyes:
    id actually written a post about the topic at hand but the mention of it going offtopic prompted me to delete it all. guess a little facetious humor cant go unpunished eh =D

    i have feelings n stuff about the decline of the game
     
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    id actually written a post about the topic at hand but the mention of it going offtopic prompted me to delete it all. guess a little facetious humor cant go unpunished eh =D

    i have feelings n stuff about the decline of the game
    Well if you have input into the decline of the game then that is on-topic yes?
    Off-Topic for me is people focusing solely on the power issue for example. But I do want to see other peoples opinions on why they believe the game is bleeding players.
    Anything that helps Schine get SM on track can only be a good thing imho. (y) And well, forums are for discussions and opinions after all. ;)
     
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    theyve already dismissed just about everything i have to say with the "playerbase hemorrhaging is intentional" remarks. i dont like that answer but if its true theres nothing to say about it but "that sucks" and move on.

    the general vibe i and my friends stll playing this game get is the dev team believes the current playerbase is unimportant except for helping solve bugs, and they believe they have a big enough potential audience left to draw a new playerbase from once the games ready to charge money for. if theyre right, this makes sense from a business perspective.

    i agree with many of your points about content, although i think stability and lack of intuitive ui/mechanics is the biggest bleed after seeing countless people join, complain, then quit, or quit after 3 disruptive events like (undock bugs) in a row.
     
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    Yeah many like myself are generally okay with bugs. We expect it being play testers and all. But many I know get annoyed when major bugs are released when the devs are aware of it. I mean if they know a bug exists then we don't need to playtest for it. We should be play testing for bugs they have missed, especially when the bugs they know about but release anyway are server breaking. [Is that not what pre-release/test branches are for?]

    But for more casual players yes, a few bugs can be enough to make them give up on the game extremely quick.

    And I really don't buy this whole, player bleed, and approach to getting new players and retaining the old etc excuses they're throwing at us. Seems illogical and backwards.
    Might apply to those playing for free, but is kind of pissing in the eye of those who have financially supported the game as well as dedicated years of their life to it.

    Maybe it's a cultural differences thing, something lost in translation? But a lot I am reading in regards to decision making and explaining things away from the Schine team seems upside down and back to front from my view point.
    Especially when my own eyes and personal experience are painting a different picture to what is being said to us. :confused:

    But a lot of that I will be addressing with Andy on my youtube channel later hopefully.
     
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    Especially when my own eyes and personal experience are painting a different picture to what is being said to us.
    anecdotal evidence gains value when its shared collectively among many experienced individuals.

    but ive already aired my beliefs on these forums so i dont want to seem like im beating a dead horse, they were kind enough to actually respond to my worries, even if its not 100% what i wanted to hear.
     
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    Ithirahad

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    Even taking into account what the devs have said here, there does seem to be a bit of a phenomenon with Schine where it always sounds like the 'good' stuff is a few months down the line, and then there's inevitably some rescheduling of priorities and the best part of whatever's being worked on never arrives and is postponed until the 'near future™' again. What's with that? '~'

    (Thankfully this didn't happen with the bugfixing update, and we're actually getting the fleet docked entity bug fixed ^^)
     
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    People are bored. I understand the sentiment. There's a flurry of activity on my server for a few weeks after a major update, then it goes quiet again. We log on, play with the new stuff, play with some of the old stuff again, then move on to other things until it's time to do it all again. That's just how the cookie crumbles in early-access Alpha games. I think some people have their expectations set too high for the game's current stage of development.
     
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    Dumbest analogy ever
    Thx for pointing out the weak spots in my argumentation line, so I know how to improve.

    Even though it can't hide to me, that you are frustrated.

    I don't know how you are helping the Starmade community by pointing out obvious downsides this game has, and not seeing what actually can be done. You just simply ignore what actually is possible with this game. Just seeing all the negative stuff and walling off the positive sides of this game.

    And cherrypicking my arguments about why the powerchange shouldn't be taken so heavily, isn't convincing the people, that still play this game to suddenly jump on your negative thoughts train. It just comforts the guys who are just as frustrated as you.

    Just one thing: If you like to argue with me, only do it, if you ever plan on playing this game further. If not we might not need your opinion, because it's just based around frustration and "I am pissed because I didn't got the candy I dreamed about" attitudes.

    That doesn't mean negative feedback isn't helpful. But how you talk to me, and how you react to the text I really thought about when I wrote it, is certainly not. I also don't like it if you just call my stuff "dumb", it hurts me and I feel like you don't like me just because I am trying to participate here. It's not like I am ignoring that playing Starmade and having to look at shutted down servers is frustrating at the moment. For me playing Starmade is also not that easy for now. I have issues too. But I try to keep them to myself and try to help other players having fun who still like to play this game.
     
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    In my opinion, the devs are right. Instead of focusing their attention into a single aspect for a while only to completely rebuild it later, they're doing things in passes so as to ensure everything works well. While the community is important in the long run, a good bunch of them are just making asses of themselves, myself included. If they want something, they can suggest it once and then wait. The reason we're still in early to mid alpha is because generic features aren't fully implemented yet. My guess is that mid-late alpha will be adding the next passes and more specific features, but the majority are so impatient they may tear themselves into the ban hammer's path before even the next release.

    TL;DR:
    Devs are fine, community is in the wrong.