CraftAU shutting down.

    Discussion in 'Community Servers' started by RabidBat, Apr 14, 2017.

    1. Shaker

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2015
      Messages:
      353
      Throwing just about everyone into the same catagory shows alot of ignorance, saying that if you care about the power system, your a PvPer.

      The power system is the most important system in the ship, it dictates what you can do and how fast you can move. Thus we should all care for how it gets changed.

      All 3 main playstyles (PvE/PvP/RP) need to care for it, the difference is just between minimization,optimal performance and sheer power draw.

      RP cares about it the least as they only need enough to move, weapons are for show so its not really important to balance between
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    2. kulbolen

      Joined:
      Jan 4, 2015
      Messages:
      363
      Released February 28, 2012 (Alpha)
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    3. Mr.Steam

      Joined:
      Oct 24, 2014
      Messages:
      218
      What would be considered a reasonable amount of time for a game with the scope and magnitude of Starmade to be completed? One year? Five years? Ten years? I first heard about Star Citizen like five years ago and I am still waiting on that one, even though they have received like 140 million in funding.

      So I think Starmade is doing pretty good, considering the small amount of resources they have to work with. I just hope they have the stamina to see it through to the end and don't get tired of all the bellyaching on the forums.

      As far as getting my moneys worth. I paid Six bucks for the game several years ago and have gotten far more value out of it than that.
       
      • Agree Agree x 4
    4. Lone_Puppy

      Joined:
      Mar 12, 2015
      Messages:
      940
      Yeah it started out with only a hanger to show off your ships and maybe play with them a bit. It has been while!
       
    5. KaRe

      Joined:
      Feb 11, 2017
      Messages:
      74
      Updated every year since release with at least 2 major updates a year.
       
    6. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      459
      But even if the power system is very important, it doesn't justify to use this argument as a end it all. You know Starmade doesn't have declining users because of a propossal, it has less guys because we can't play it currently with all the bugs. If people would say "the current bugs kill it for me" - I would not argue further. But a way too high percentage of guys around here argue that "the power talk killed Starmade" - and I say this is wrong. I explained it allready why, and you can reread my comments to this thread here. (If you are even interested into another point of view on the powerchange.)

      And I still don't see where it kills your ships, when you have to use the advanced build mode tools, replace old reactors with power capacitors, and cut out a cube where you don't need some systems like power or shield capacitors anymore.

      And now we do a line by liner:

      saying that if you care about the power system, your a PvPer.

      I don't know where you are reffering to here, I assume to this "Third if you really say that your builds are entirely about the power systems instead of rail and logic functions or other design stuff, you are basically a pvper that puts his stuff into cubeshells of grey standard armor." I didn't what you are assuming here.
      I tried to say ships don't consist of power systems entirely and if they were only about the power systems, and then I exagerated, they would be only grey standard armor cubes - to actually explain, that there is more about a Starmade ship, than only it's power systems.

      The power system is the most important system in the ship, it dictates what you can do and how fast you can move. Thus we should all care for how it gets changed.

      And in how far does this sentence support, that the powerchange killed Starmade? I mean this was the point why I wrote, I am sorry to repeat that here, but my point was about: The power change is a very shallow reason to say Starmade has issues, and it's really annoying (and also killing the spirit!) that people bloat this thing up. And don't see where your sentence interacts with my point here. This is very general, and I made some very precise examples about how the power change would actually impact you (...ok I allready wrote that, you are free to reread it, if you are not able to read it and will ignore this stuff again we shouldn't try to get to terms anymore). But I think you want to make a transitition here, to strengthen your next point (and your only actual real argument):

      RP cares about it the least as they only need enough to move, weapons are for show so its not really important to balance between

      Now I agree, that I am not very much emotionally involved to this pvp stuff, even as a dedicated player of Starmade, and my main playstyle is RP. But what does RP mean? You know I only use the word RP, because I want to draw a line to the majority of PVPers I see ingame: very undetailed ships, near to zero interior, mass allways above 20k when they fly around doing anything on the servers. (And I've seen your ships shaker, and surge's youtube stuff too, great designs, I wouldn't throw your stuff into the majority of pvper.)
      You know I would call myself a pvper too. I just don't pvp on Starmade, because I think pvp in Starmade without very strong meta changing rules the fights are...well I am not at the point, where I find it interesting to fight in ships ranging from 10k to 40k. But I try to use the systems very well and for the biggest ship I ve build, I made 2 versions: An RP one and a PVP one. The pvp one has only a small walkway to the core as interior.
      But the most important point here: As RPer, I do care very much about how my weapon damage turns out. I make calculations too, and the pvp versions of my ship explain a lot to me how to use the Starmade gamemechanics. The style in that I design my ship, tries to make them balanced when they fight each other. Two examples: 1 The turrets on my ship are designed to make a certain ammount of block damage, and I wouldn't use smaller turrets, even for the looks, if they didn't do that minimum of needed damage to the enemy vessel. 2 The fighters I build are able to significantly damage each other in a dogfight with a limitted amount of hits. Try to build a fighter below 100 mass for once: As soon as it has more than 1500 shields and only 99 regen it gets really hard if you 1v1 an pirate controlled one.
      My point here: RPers as well can have an important opinion on the power systems that also is based on actual pvp oriented calculations. Saying that RPers don't care for the powerchange are thus not able to justify it's meaning is not a very strong argument, and even this argument I am able to attack with the written examples of mine.

      So I again I wait where you actually attack my initial point, that the power change isn't that big of an issue, with some strong arguments that actually react to my concrete examples with: the replace tool, the transition time like it has been with the old turrets, and the point that ships are not entirely made out of power systems, instead of what you provided up to now. ;)
       
      #66 JinM, Apr 19, 2017
      Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
    7. Shaker

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2015
      Messages:
      353
      Huge wall, sorry guys...

      somewhat correct, alot feel that knowing that the power upgrade is coming, has killed there mood to build. As this upgrade will also have to rebalance every other system block with it, most feel it isnt worth finishing any ships till the upgrade comes out as they will have to learn each system again.
      The transition between old/new power system will only be a couple of months as they try to balance between, kinda like the old turret docks. eventually the current style will be phased out.


      "basically a pvper", "I exagerated"
      all i did was point it out that you are putting nearly everyone into the same catagory.


      its the final nail in the coffin for alot of players, as i mentioned above, everyone is going to have to learn the new way the systems work as the old will be phased out, thus making all current and previous builds obsolete. i shouldnt have to explain it, as so many have already complained about it in the general subforums.
      personally it doesnt bother me, i know now that the heatbox idea has been binned, my only annoyance is the garbage block/filler block.


      RP = care mainly for the looks of the ship
      PvE = balanced
      PvP = care for stats
      I think you would fall in the PvE slot in the playerbase, you sounds alot like me and Surge, you have thought out what weapons you are aiming for and also trying to balance your ship between function and aesthetics, and not bothered to go out and harrass players.


      I think there might be a translation error here, i said, RP CARE ABOUT POWER THE LEAST, OUT OF THE 3 MAIN PLAYSTYLES
      I could quote myself again, where i said everyone should care for this change, as its going to affect everyone.

      considering the size of the power debate thread, i dont think this is a small issue, otherwise it would have passed and schine wouldnt be talking about it in all the meetings and creating their 2nd proposal.
      changing power will also effect each system that rides on it, if they carry on with changing it to heat, how do scanners charge? do they add heat as they charge?
      how does shield regen work? do they add heat or do the shield cap carry the heat?

      You keep saying you care for the "spirit" of the game, guess what, so do all the guys complaining, it just gets worse when the RP side start debating with no content/background knowledge of what they are debating. I can see where each side is coming from, there worries about forced playstyles and the waste of space that heatboxes would have created. Hence why i mostly stayed out of it.
      Maybe you should move your power theories talk to your own thread in general/suggestions instead of derailing CraftAU's goodbye
       
      #67 Shaker, Apr 20, 2017
      Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
      • Agree Agree x 2
    8. JinM

      Joined:
      Jun 11, 2016
      Messages:
      459
      This wasn't a goodbye, this was a goodbye because we think Starmade sux. The problem was not the goodbye, but the focus on whats all wrong on Starmade and making a text that was in a way that even the dev's felt the need to respond here. So the only thing surpising here is, that so few people argued pro Starmade. I mean after all this forum is for players who like playing the game. If I only find negative things on one of my leisure time activity I would just do something I can't complain about so much instead of telling people who still do that what I don't like anymore what's so bad about it.

      If your thread was derailed I am not so sorry, because I think many other threads who just couldn't stop complaining with their illogical power critique should've been stopped too and that way earlier. That you guys all think that your negative point of view on the power change is totally right may be one thing, but after all your opinion can't be changed as many tries in other threads proofed that and I am not very interested in being constructive for the majority of static minds that don't give in even into small correct things and beanpick only the wrong small stuff. I mean that's exhausting for me and as the forum is moderated in a way that unconstructive talking isn't challenged by any mod, I just CAN'T make a constructive thread to it. That's after all not my fault that I am not interested into loosing all my strength for a forum that's not interested into communicating efficiently.

      If the goodbye would ve been without the mentioning on the power it would ve been fine for me I would have stopped talking. But using some "nail on the coffin" as repeating reminder how bad Starmade is really pushes me, as it is not constructive to repeat something thats not true and just got made into some dragon.

      Even though you actually talked to me and I am happy that you choose to change your words you use for me. I also agree with a few points of you that you responded to me, but I think we shared our thoughts and that's ok for me. I said what I think and you told me that you look on it different, that's fine for me. So please don't take my reaction on this overall thread personal.
       
      #68 JinM, Apr 21, 2017
      Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
    9. Ithirahad

      Ithirahad Arana'Aethi

      Joined:
      Nov 14, 2013
      Messages:
      3,805
      Everyone here thinks this game has potential, whether or not they believe that it is or will be taken advantage of to its fullest. We don't have many alternatives, so one way or another we're stuck here. :P
       
    10. Shaker

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2015
      Messages:
      353
      How is it bad, passing knowledge of why a server has decided to shutdown?
      All the information i got given through starmade mail (ingame) was all the builders are waiting for the power update and the fleets bug has done so much damage to their fleets (even after i warned them) that they are just going to wait it out.


      Mostly because they have seen that fleet bug and they are in the suggestions thread coming up with last years ideas again. Jokes

      When has anyone here said they dont like the game? RabidBatRabidBat has 1,500 hours of gametime in steam, i myself have just short of 1,100. Im still playing even after the last local server has shutdown, even though its just in singleplayer.

      They are all still enjoying the game, they are pointing out its flaws in hopes that they get fixed.

      Great to see that you respect other peoples opinions, do you happen to live in north korea?

      It isnt your fault, that power discussion blew up because some players didnt like the fact that their idea came with exploits which other players pointed out.

      Couldnt help yourself hey? Haha
      You should be happy, a server on the other side of the planet full of players that dont agree with you are going. Jokes

      We are on the other side of the planet, also on a different server and not in the suggestions/general subforum. The fact you started reading this thread and then got angry about it, you could have easily ignored it instead of getting upset about it.

      Its all good, just wanted to point out that the other side complaining, care for this game aswell.
       
    11. terra mining corp.

      Joined:
      Aug 1, 2015
      Messages:
      471
      Sorry to hear of the server closing it's doors never a happy moment no matter where, I had same happen to me on the now defunct NASS, I have seen youtube vids of some of the builds and if you guys don't pick up and move to another server will be a HUGE loss to the community,if you need a active server to play on drop in GenX and look me up i'll try to help as much as I can. Glory for the table!
       
    12. Shaker

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2015
      Messages:
      353
      Thanks for the offer, the big problem with australia is its distance from the rest of the world thus comes the increased ping to outside servers making game borderline unplayable for ship vs ship combat.
      Surge has created a small server (starmade downunder), its not as powerful spec wise so alot of us have to learn to scale down our ship sizes. It may make us build a similair size to the rest of you guys haha

      My poor liberator, sitting at 1.3mil blocks, shelfed for singleplayer only lol
       
    13. The Judge

      The Judge Trinova Technologies Officer

      Joined:
      Aug 12, 2014
      Messages:
      283
      Why is your text pink, it burns my eyes.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    14. Calhoun

      Calhoun Guardian of the Time Stream

      Joined:
      May 26, 2015
      Messages:
      624
      Judgemental Prick
       
    15. KaRe

      Joined:
      Feb 11, 2017
      Messages:
      74
      Is this better?
       
    16. Brokengauge

      Joined:
      Mar 3, 2015
      Messages:
      400
      Not enough contrast with the background. Go back to eye burning! Lol

      Or maybe try a sky blue, or a less intense pink if possible.
       
    17. CoolDev2

      Joined:
      Apr 25, 2017
      Messages:
      6
      I read like the first 10 posts when the thread derailed into the various problems..

      DukeofRealmsDukeofRealms AndyPAndyP schemaschema
      I'm not going to question why SM isn't being advertised, or anything like that. I'm going to ask a very simple question. Why are you finally focusing on stability and performance? You're honestly 4 years to late to paying attention to that. Unfortunately back when I started I attempted to help, and give schema all sorts of detailed information about problems and suggestions on ways to improve it. Simple problems like an admin command not working went on for months, or in some cases years. I know of one command that never worked since the day it was added, in early 2014, until the day we at RedShift gave up in June 2015. It astounds me that it took this long, because as far as I can tell schema understands what he's doing.

      As for those claiming that much of it is a servers problem, while I'm not as certain nowadays, for the 2.5 years I played and assisted RedShift, uh no... We had a team of game devs running the thing basically and constantly pushed the server further than any other but it was still the largest pain to keep that server up out of every game we've ever run. We constantly run game servers with hundreds of people on the same hardware we ran SM on with a max of like 60 people back in 2013-2014 before the performance degraded. Before anyone jumps me about this game having higher performance requirements due to collision and other crap, I'm all to aware of that. Koderz (The owner of RS) and I built a voxel engine like this one but in c++ in a few weekends and did quite a lot of research into the collision and we we're playing Jenga with 10m block entities in our engine like it was nothing. SM would implode if you tried that same thing. I'm not trying to diminish schema, or say he couldn't achieve the same thing, only that it's definitely possible, and actually relatively simple to get far better performance than what exists today.
       
    18. DukeofRealms

      DukeofRealms Count Duku

      Joined:
      Sep 4, 2013
      Messages:
      1,245
      We're on the road to beta now, performance/stability is a higher concern. While features do still take priority until we hit beta, we're beginning to slowly switch our focus. We know where we're heading and have a rough idea of how we're going to get there, this new release cycle will help us achieve that. We appreciate the information you gave back in 2014 and 2015 (if you've forgotten your password, feel free to send me a PM, and we'll sort that out).

      We work with many servers and communities, documenting issues they face. A couple of servers go above and beyond when assisting us with bugfixing and testing, in this recent update, that was LvD. We host any participating server owners in our tester slack, who give us invaluable information.
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Agree Agree x 1
    19. CoolDev2

      Joined:
      Apr 25, 2017
      Messages:
      6
      I probably have my account information somewhere, just didn't feel like looking for it right now. Thanks though.

      I understand development cycles of games all too well. You really don't ever want to build an entire game and then try to make up the performance and stability deficiencies late in the cycle. That's just setting yourself up for failure unfortunately. Bugs, performance, and general stability should always be high on the priorities. It's far easier to and faster to optimize as you go than try to revamp half the game later on to account for a low level change you need to make that would have taken far less time earlier on.

      I'm aware of the tester slack and servers and stuff. Koderz was in there for a while as a part of the aforementioned attempt we made to support SM, but honestly it felt to me like said help fell on deaf ears. I'm glad to see the focus shifting but honestly I feel you're quite a bit too late. This was the entire reason several big servers like RS left. It just took too much time to maintain a server if you wanted to do it well. I know it aggravated Koderz to no end to watch what was going on and know exactly how to fix most of it to just get effectively ignored.
       
    20. DukeofRealms

      DukeofRealms Count Duku

      Joined:
      Sep 4, 2013
      Messages:
      1,245
      I've worked with a few game companies, have consulted for many more and have many friends in the industry, I've never seen it work like that :) The base of the game is quite solid, we've always maintained it. In almost all game companies, especially the larger ones, feature development is first, bugs and performance overhauls usually come in late alpha and beta. Sure, you need a solid foundation first, which is what we worked on for the first few years of SM development, as well as the many years of work to create the in-house engine we use. You'll find our recent update isn't a rework/redesign of the engine or overhaul of the game, it's simply massive bug cleaning. The fact that we've scheduled most bugfixes/cleanup for late alpha/beta isn't news, we've been very transparent about this from the very beginning. I can't think of any game I've seen/been involved with that's done otherwise.

      I've seen internal workings of AAA companies, mid-tiers and indies. I know of and am quite close to people who work in all spectrums of the industry. In fact, Schine is part of a couple of game studio programs. If you work (or have worked) in the industry, I'll be happy to listen to how you've seen it work, I just have never seen it work as you've described. I suggest contacting me via PM or Skype (I believe you have my details already), send your credentials, and we can discuss the inner workings of game companies. There's always something to learn.
       
    Loading...