Buff warhead damage/radius poll

    Buff warheads(Pick one radius and one damage please)


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    Oh, I would also point out, that as far as warheads being used by cloaker/jammer ships, I don't think we should balance warheads around that. As its widely known that the mechanics for those two systems are not balanced at all.

    I also don't think we should worry about warheads covered by blocks... as they will do no damage. Until collision damage is officially in and is operational, I don't think we should balance around the idea people will use "Armored Torpedo's".

    Both of these things IMO are things people can exploit simply because other systems that affect overall game play are not balanced. Balancing around bugs/non functional features, I believe would be a mistake. Rather we should assume that these Mechanics will be removed/changed to be balanced, and work with whatever weapon systems we have Assuming they are balanced against other weapon and defense types.

    Just my opinion, but I think it is unwise to try to prevent exploits, when they are present due to other (Somewhat) unrelated system's that have flaws.
     

    Az14el

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    The fastest and safest resource way of mass griefing at this moment are unfactioned
    warheads, if you make a nofactioned ship that shot using logic the objetive CAN DEFEND HIS SELF if bobby is on, on the other hand using warheads = objetive don´t move or shot.
    Ignoring something? The reason warheads don't cause a wardec is because they dont have a faction module, neither does the logic weapon, the reason warheads aren't targetted is because they generally have no bobby AI on them, neither does the logic weapon. Nothing magical about the warheads here its the bobby & the faction module, these can be foregone on any ship ever, it's only actually advantageous on logic weapons & warheads, and one of those things is actually good at what it does (since some people still have a problem understanding, I promise you it sure as shit isn't the warhead).

    And as for "try to stole ships from a homebase of a medium or high group of players,"
    Well, yeah, that's kinda half or more of my income on this entire game. I don't use warheads much unless there's absolutely no alternative, because why the hell would I go through the extra effort? Better neutral weapons exist, Blowtorches exist & Homebases exist. Only reason I can think of currently using them in any seriousness is when that's just the best I could afford, and even then I'd almost definitely be better off mining, because warheads are incredibly slow at causing damage.

    If warhead damage changes, then just maybe they'll be useful for something other than Player vs Stationary Object/AFK/Offline. And as it stands, even that can be done better with any other weapon system. Just to reiterate they are not "useful for griefing", they are awful for EVERYTHING. And that's the problem.

    tl;dr this whole thread -
    Warheads do very little damage compared to any other weapon system and need work,
    Neutral warhead weapons are possible but done far better with actual weapon systems,
    AI have targetting problems against entities without player or AI control, which can be taken advantage of with warheads, but again is more to the benefit of actual weapon systems due to their superior damage,

    (Notice how only one of those things actually relates to the strength of warheads? And the others have much broader ramifications and affect more than just warheads? Wonder why they were such a big deal in the first place *shrug*)
     

    FlyingDebris

    Vaygr loves my warhead bat.
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    I can understand things not having a faction being used to shoot things without causing a wardec to be a little exploit-ey, even though I've done it myself numerous times on the now-defunct LCB server and elsewhere. That said, having them do more damage is also something I'd definitely get behind, as they're the closest thing we have to minefields.

    Perhaps having them and logic-based weapons in unfactioned ships save the faction of whoever used them last and then if they do something that would cause a wardec that will wardec the person's faction?
     

    Az14el

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    Well let me try explain better, the "no moving objetive" at warhead use it´s because with less warheads = Overheating fast, if you launch only 1 warhear block or do lines better you must to try other shapes, and remember 2 things:

    - Never put warheads blocks near the other normal blocks at the torpedo, that makes less damage to objetive.

    - I love logic weapon systems, that is the reason i want warhead damage increased but i do not want peps abuse from that.
    None of this is a response to what you quoted, heres the key part: The reason warheads don't cause a wardec is because they dont have a faction module, neither does the logic weapon, the reason warheads aren't targetted is because they generally have no bobby AI on them, neither does the logic weapon. Nothing magical about the warheads here its the bobby & the faction module.


    If this is what is holding back warheads, then it's pointless, as it can "abused" with other weapon systems, and on that point.


    Neutral weapons better than that, Are you kiding me? Blowtorch = The faction that you atack know it, please tell me a neutral weapon example better than a no factioned warhead that don´t make boby star shoting.
    A Blowtorch is NOT a neutral weapon. A Torpedo CAN BE a kind of neutral weapon by removing the faction module from it. A 100k block swarmer missile system could ALSO be a neutral weapon. Using this with a regular weapon system (Swarmers for actually attacking, Dumbfire or cannons activated on wireless for demolition) is always superior, no extra entities required, no collisions, free reloading, far superior damage if you want it, and often you can simply reclaim the weapon. Warheads on the other hand have static damage that takes multiple to break advanced armor, even a cloaked minefield with perfectly spaced warheads is laughably weak against anything with hull, and a fast torpedo is almost impossible to aim from the distances required for it to reach the right velocity for clipping reliably. Pretty set in stone reasons why regular weapons are better than warheads, they always have been. Putting them on logic and failing to give them a faction module doesn't change the numbers.


    I´m starting to think you know how to grief anonymously and dont want to lose that.
    As its been said by multiple people here, "Griefing anonymously" is called "Playing the game" to others, while I consider griefing to be something like Joining a faction purely to take everything they have. Others might consider griefing as any kind of unorganised PvP.

    If you want to know my personal opinion on "griefing" - if it can be protected against simply by using the in game protections provided; (Infinitude of empty sectors, Homebases, Advanced shop docking), then its not a matter of Griefing, pure and simple. "Dock your shit" basically.

    If griefing is taking undocked shit or making guerilla attacks on someone I can't face in a ship to ship battle, then hell yeah, I'm a griefer.
    I prefer "PvP Player", so do most of the others I know.

    If you consider griefing to be taking advantage of in game systems to take or destroy what would otherwise be protected (Abusing lag to get around homebase protection, or faction system to simply walk away with an entire factions inventory & ships in your pocket, hacking their account etc), then no, I'm not, and wouldn't approve.


    Yes it´s repeting time for me Warheads must be launch factioned or they must be unarmed to prevent abuse from players.
    How do you get this ^^^^

    From this \/\/\/\/

    Warheads do very little damage compared to any other weapon system and need work,
    Neutral warhead weapons are possible but done far better with actual weapon systems,
    AI have targetting problems against entities without player or AI control, which can be taken advantage of with warheads, but again is more to the benefit of actual weapon systems due to their superior damage,
    That "Abuse from players" is clearly far worse with non-warhead methods.
     

    AtraUnam

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    Most of the above, if you want to grief without war-declaration then warheads are about the worst way you could do it.
     

    FlyingDebris

    Vaygr loves my warhead bat.
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    No offense ark, but not only are you being an ass, you're an ass with bad spelling.

    Glitching stuff off of homebases has no point in this discussion as it's a bug and will be patched. Shooting things with warheads is definitely PvP but quite frankly you're never going to properly kill any decent ship with them and they are for the most part used for boarding. Once you break open the doors you have to get at the faction module which will take a *very* long time with warheads and is basically exactly what torches were intended for.
     

    Az14el

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    And I forgot I was staying away from this thread again :u
    Wanting to buff warheads because they literally can't destroy armor without multiple hits = just a griefer defending his methods
     

    FlyingDebris

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    Do not worry, you have not offended me for calling me the word that ends in hole, or highlight my bad spelling, my level of English is similar to "advanced tarzan".

    You've really offended me for not understanding my point of view.

    As I said earlier warheads are near useless vs moving entities instead against static entities once you have pierced "the skin of the ship" is when they start decent damage on Hp bar.

    Simplifying an explanation to the maximum:

    Big ship mass = warheads at big numbers

    If you look at the title of the thread it from higher up would remain in:

    Big ship mass = warheads at less than numbers above.

    This is due to the increased damage that suggests this thread, if you've never used an entity with more than 200 torpedoes is normal that I do not understand me.


    Leave aside the issue of glicht of homebasas, parts of the misconception that the factionblock will be in an accessible area of the ship, it is normal to hide that can not be accessed with the astronaut.

    The torch really "real pvp" only serves to expel the core driver and try to kill him, for Griefing tactics it´s another history.



    I think of all the words that I used in this thread, you have not understood anything.

    Try to damage no armored blocks, and perhaps you can get my point, and try to investigate other shapes at warheads more than 1 block or 1 line, and remmeber never put warheads near other block types you lost damage doing that.
    I've tested warheads extensively and been involved in a number of other players' tests for the specific purpose of finding out whether warheads could viably kill a ship. The answer, thus far, has been a resounding no. They, in their current state, are a boarding weapon capable of breaching doors and not much else.

    No offense, but your argument in the last post was less than coherent so I tried to answer it as best I could.