Brainstorm This Better Faction War System?

[Ptotheextreme]

(This post will be changed accordingly with the development of this idea)

So, I've been playing for a while now and the current faction system still doesn't quite scratch my want of an awesome system.
I suggest adding to the current system a way to siege an enemy homebase by being in the same sector as the homebase, and by being there it removes faction points from the enemy faction's point pool per minute.

-The more systems the enemy faction has claimed the slower the rate is (alot slower or impossible to siege?);

-A faction has a grace time when created. ( 7 days maybe, and cannot be sieged);

-The siege only works when the 2 factions are at war;

-The enemy players must be online in the sector and uncloacked for it to work;

-The number of enemy players contributes to a faster rate, and the number of defending players in the sector contributes to a slower rate (including aliances);

-Sieging also costs faction points from the attacker (Costs more when the attacking faction has more members than the defending faction, and costs less when the attacker has less members, and being online or offline will not change this cost).

(All of the current faction system details remain the same, the siege system is just an addition)

(More players means a stronger faction now)

(You can still form aliances of course, use this to your advantage!)

(Dont even dare complain about the homebase not being able to defend itself because while you have positive FPs, your home and defenses are still invulnerable.)

This will prevent players from just hiding behind the walls of the homebase and never lose faction points, consequently making them not invulnerable. This will also incourage more expansion and a more dynamic universe.

This will also apply to me
But i want action! (and also want to remove factions from the galaxy map that have been offline for a long time and have made no progress >.> )

Please post your ideas, I would love to hear what you think.

 

[Mariux]

There's a small problem. What if there are no players in the attacked faction logged in at the time? That would mean that basicly anyone can come in and take the system.

 

[ResonKinetic]

There's a small problem. What if there are no players in the attacked faction logged in at the time? That would mean that basicly anyone can come in and take the system.

They better have a good defense system.

 

[Mariux]

They better have a good defense system.

But what if they simply hide some cores with faction modules in turret blindspots? Also, even if theres adequate defence, there's always a bigger ship that will destroy all the defences. While that seems fair, it becomes extremely easy for huge factions to take over any new, small factions that had barely even started setting up their defences.

 

[Ptotheextreme]

The grace period is supposed to fix that, but idk the time length that it should be.
Besides having a big challenge is also part of the fun, maybe they could ask for the help of another big faction, or even unite with other small ones.

Also the rate at which they lose points is undetermined. So it can still be whatever.

 

[Gamel]

A better faction system (with quest and more) is planned, but i forgot the details

 

[CaptainTaz]

For a person like me who plays once or twice a week, this would ruin the game for me. There would be players who leave a siege at my base after creaming all my defenses, and I'd come back 4 days later and have to start over again.

 

[Ptotheextreme]

For a person like me who plays once or twice a week, this would ruin the game for me. There would be players who leave a siege at my base after creaming all my defenses, and I'd come back 4 days later and have to start over again.

First, the homebase is still invulnerable while you have positive faction points,so the defenses are also invulnerable.
Second,you would need more members to help you out or another faction.
Or just dont set a homebase so no1 can see where it is.

The game should always be a fun challenge (to me) not an easy ride.

 

[Mariux]

First, the homebase is still invulnerable while you have positive faction points,so the defenses are also invulnerable.
Second,you would need more members to help you out or another faction.
Or just dont set a homebase so no1 can see where it is.

The game should always be a fun challenge (to me) not an easy ride.

But what if you DON'T want to play with others? This needs to always be an option.

 

[Comr4de]

I'd really appreciate if you elaborated on this further. How would this affect mining bonuses? Ship alerts? Faction point generation?

 

[Thalanor]

There needs to be some improvement in the faction warfare business, but this is not it. Too many playstyles would be excluded from vanilla gameplay, that is a KO criterion.

 

[iceman6491]

if you want a blockade style thingy ma bob, at the very least I think the enemy player MUST be present for the ship to count. Then the rate of decrease could increase with increased enemy players. Then at least a blockade would be quite the time investment. Hell you could even factor in ship mass. So a blockade in a a couple of cores would be stupid slow, but if say 4KepDrones turn up each with a Charon then it might depreciate at a reasonable rate. That or, more likely, the server would die XD

 

[Edymnion]

I will say here what I have said about PvP in countless MMO's.

There are two kinds of PvP players. One kind of PvP player enjoys the thrill and the unpredictable nature of fighting against another human being and all of the challenges that entails. The other is just a griefer asshole that gets their jollies from harassing people and making life miserable for everyone.

The first type of PvP'er is a valuable member of any game. The other is a cancer that needs to be cut out of any game.

What is my barometer for telling which is which? The good PvP'er wants fair fights, the griefer never wants a fair fight. The good PvP'er excels in both structured combat (such as arenas) and enjoys unpredictable open world combat against opponents in their own range. The griefer PvP'er almost exclusively attacks lowbies who are incapable of defending themselves.

What the OP has described benefits the griefer far, far more than the PvP'er.

1) No player should *EVER* be forced into PvP if they don't want to fight another player. Have PvP flags or something like that, those who want to PvP can turn theirs on and PvP all the live long day. Those who just want to mine and build can keep theirs turned off and not have to worry about being harassed.

2) The fact that all of our ships are left floating in empty space when we log out is *ONLY* counterbalanced by the fact that we can dock them to our homebase to make them invincible. In my book, anything that means someone can lose that invincibility and have everything they own destroyed while they are not even on is something that must be avoided at all costs.

This will prevent players from just hiding behind the walls of the homebase and never lose faction points

Hint: This is a person that does not want to fight you. If they hide in their homebase and never come out so you can kill them, it means they don't want to fight you, and you are, IMO, falling square into the Griefer role by trying to force them into it when that isn't the kind of game they want to play.

On my server at least, this scenario would play out like this:
1) You attack someone.
2) They say they don't want to fight you, knock it off.
3) You keep attacking them.
4) You get banned from the server.

Now, on servers that are clearly labeled as PvP and the expectation is firmly set going in that this sort of thing is going to be the norm, great, more power to you. But I have seen way too many games ruined by catering to the griefer PvP crowd that made them unlivable for anyone that just wanted to play the rest of the game to ever get behind anything that allowed unwanted PvP combat in a game ever again.

You want seige mechanics? Fine, set up some structured rules for combat. Simply say that any bases that are to be used in a faction war cannot be home bases. When one side is reduced to nothing but their home base, they lose. But good god, I would never go anywhere near a game that would let people completely wipe me out to the point I was incapable of recovering on my own while I wasn't even online to defend myself.

 

[lilFishy]

Ahm, domewhat unrelated but could there be a system that gives crertain income (of credits and ores) in a system based on the number of planets and asteroids. It would be lower than active gathering but with enough members and sectors it would give a siezable contribution. Should be balanced so that inactive factions couldn't just come back after a couple of weeks and have as much resources as the active factions.

Income would be tied to stations, so you would need to capture the station to take someones income. Wrecking the station woul require setting up a new one.

 

[FullMetalFox]

There are two kinds of PvP players. One kind of PvP player enjoys the thrill and the unpredictable nature of fighting against another human being and all of the challenges that entails. The other is just a griefer asshole that gets their jollies from harassing people and making life miserable for everyone.

Thats a very narrow view, and there are more types of PvP players.

And even the "griefer" has his place, take Neocron 1 and 2 for example, those games would have not been the same withoug those "griefer assholes", the thrill of walking around, knowing around every corner could be a player who doesnt like your face and wants to rob or kill you, going on a leveling party with your clan mates in some specific location, just to have another clan hostile to you show up in the middle of the run, forcing your to fight in the middle between both hostile mobs and players, the tension each time you trade with someone as you never know if someone may show up and bust the whole thing or if youre about to walk into a trap... good memories, and they wouldnt have been the same without this kind of player.

But yes i know there are those "Carebears" who dont want to take part in that, IMHO those people shouldnt play Open World PvP Games, or in terms of Starmade, stay away from PvP Servers, as in the end, those "carebears" are the "assholes" if you ask the open world pvp players and "griefers".

Or, implement a protection like Neocron did. In Neocron every player started with a LE Implant, which made them immune to any damage from other players, and made them unable to damage other players, once you took that implant out, you could put it back in unles you were still below lvl 30, so this allowed newbies to be save in a PvP dominated game, or even play nearly the whole game without ever having to take part in PvP.

 

[iceman6491]

...
Or, implement a protection like Neocron did. In Neocron every player started with a LE Implant, which made them immune to any damage from other players, and made them unable to damage other players, once you took that implant out, you could put it back in unles you were still below lvl 30, so this allowed newbies to be save in a PvP dominated game, or even play nearly the whole game without ever having to take part in PvP.

On the back of this why not have newbies affiliated with the trading guild (or equivalent). Attacking the Guild spawns and sets AI on the hostile figure, like attacking shops does. The newbie attacking anyone other than pirates results in being auto un-associated with the Guild?

 

[Edymnion]

I have no problems with being jumped on a PvP server. As long as I'm being jumped by someone I can reasonably expect to defend myself against.

I find that the griefer types often like to confuse the issue or hide their motivations behind phrases like "open world PvP", because open world PvP generally does not have any kind of scaling or bracketing to it. Despite the fact that we've had the technology to level the playing field for YEARS now, its the griefer vocal minority that rails about it that stops it from being implemented.

In an MMO setting, I would personally *LOVE* to be on a PvP server where I could be attacked at any time by someone in my own power range. As in, if I were leveling in a zone level 15-20, I would love being able to attack and be attacked... by people level 15-20. I love PvP. A lvl 15 being attacked by a lvl 100 is not PvP. That is nothing but griefing in my book. If the person being jumped cannot reasonably be expected to defend themselves, then its not PvP as far as I'm concerned, its just griefing.

Now, this is StarMade, not an MMO. The idea of scaling ships/damage/shields up/down to even the playing field is not an otpion, because thats not the kind of game this is. This is a sandbox build game. People that want to be in a gankfest setting on a PvP server are welcome to do so, I have no problem with that.

I do have a problem with things being added to the game that support the griefer lifestyle that spill over into the rest of the game. Going back to MMO terminology, keep your PvP out of my PvE. Anything that can turn off the invincibility of my home base on my non-PvP server that allows someone to blow up everything i've ever done in the game while I'm not even online... I wouldn't wait for it to happen, I would uninstall StarMade the instant that got announced.

 

[lilFishy]

Eh, no love for me post, ey? Also there is a certain cap that the greifers in other PvP games will reach (lvl, gear....), there is noone stoping someone to make a 2 km doom cube name it wife beater and just troll around the space

 

[Snk]

I do have a problem with things being added to the game that support the griefer lifestyle that spill over into the rest of the game. Going back to MMO terminology, keep your PvP out of my PvE. Anything that can turn off the invincibility of my home base on my non-PvP server that allows someone to blow up everything i've ever done in the game while I'm not even online... I wouldn't wait for it to happen, I would uninstall StarMade the instant that got announced.

I really dislike the way you are arguing this. This is a red herring fallacy - you're making it seem like this about one play style, when really it is about many.
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Eh, there needs to be a better way to do it. I like the idea of sieges - but I don't like the idea of waking up and finding a crater. Good idea, but there needs to be a way for players to defend themselves.

Let us put this in context of a vanilla server with a wide range of players. This server wants to appeal to the widest array of play styles possible. Let's ignore the config for a moment. How would this suggestion benefit it?

The primary thing to remember is that isolationists should still be able to attacked and killed. It is just the way the game works - if you want to shell up on your little planet and stay invincible, that isn't fair to everyone else. You're denying this server a source of PvP combat. On the other hand, if you want to waltz around the map shooting up newblets, that is a dick move and that person should fly into a star.

The primary point:
1. A faction member must be online for you to damage any of their holdings or steal their faction points. There must be one defending faction player per every 3 hostile members in the home base sector.
Doesn't this fix most of your concerns?
I'm not sure how to prevent isnta log offs. That seems more like an administrative issue.

I believe that fixes it.

1) No player should *EVER* be forced into PvP if they don't want to fight another player. Have PvP flags or something like that, those who want to PvP can turn theirs on and PvP all the live long day. Those who just want to mine and build can keep theirs turned off and not have to worry about being harassed.

Bruh. Not everyone plays on build servers. This is an open world game. If I wanna conquer, I should be able too.

2) The fact that all of our ships are left floating in empty space when we log out is *ONLY* counterbalanced by the fact that we can dock them to our homebase to make them invincible. In my book, anything that means someone can lose that invincibility and have everything they own destroyed while they are not even on is something that must be avoided at all costs.

If you loose things in a fair fight, there should not be a problem.

But what if you DON'T want to play with others? This needs to always be an option.

I'd suggest playing on a server that doesn't allow this, or playing Singleplayer.

I do have a problem with things being added to the game that support the griefer lifestyle that spill over into the rest of the game. Going back to MMO terminology, keep your PvP out of my PvE. Anything that can turn off the invincibility of my home base on my non-PvP server that allows someone to blow up everything i've ever done in the game while I'm not even online... I wouldn't wait for it to happen, I would uninstall StarMade the instant that got announced.

It isn't griefing if there is someone online to defending their holdings.


In my honest opinion, Star Made is a game where you can do anything. That includes destroying other factions. It's just a fact of what kind of game this is.

 

[FullMetalFox]

I have no problems with being jumped on a PvP server. As long as I'm being jumped by someone I can reasonably expect to defend myself against.

If you cant, then well thats though luck, but unles you have some kind of area level and downscaling, that can always be the case. But then again this can even be part of the play, take EVE for example, when you run some well rewarding delivery mission into low sec with a cargo hauler, you wont be able to defend yourself, even if the attacker is new player with just a frigate under his butt.

I find that the griefer types often like to confuse the issue or hide their motivations behind phrases like "open world PvP", because open world PvP generally does not have any kind of scaling or bracketing to it. Despite the fact that we've had the technology to level the playing field for YEARS now, its the griefer vocal minority that rails about it that stops it from being implemented.

In an MMO setting, I would personally *LOVE* to be on a PvP server where I could be attacked at any time by someone in my own power range. As in, if I were leveling in a zone level 15-20, I would love being able to attack and be attacked... by people level 15-20. I love PvP. A lvl 15 being attacked by a lvl 100 is not PvP. That is nothing but griefing in my book. If the person being jumped cannot reasonably be expected to defend themselves, then its not PvP as far as I'm concerned, its just griefing.

Well there certainly are games out there that use downscaling, but if that is practial also depends on the game itself, in some games you cant do that. But then again, good example is Neocron again, that game had a very good Clan dynamic, newbies often pulled out their LE Implants early to get the Leveling Boost, so they got ganked, asked for help in public chat, and got help, that caused a chain of events.
1: Ganker/Griefer type player had some fun.
2: Newbies realize the brutality of the Games setting.
3: Other PvP players get an occasion for PvP, aka killing the Ganker/Griefers.
4: The Newbies got protected, thanked the people that helped them. This very often ended in those newbies gaining new friends, or even joining clans very quickly, as it was standard for clans to protect their members.

Half of my clan back then was players that got in contact with us because we helped them against Gankers.

Now, this is StarMade, not an MMO. The idea of scaling ships/damage/shields up/down to even the playing field is not an otpion, because thats not the kind of game this is. This is a sandbox build game. People that want to be in a gankfest setting on a PvP server are welcome to do so, I have no problem with that.

I do have a problem with things being added to the game that support the griefer lifestyle that spill over into the rest of the game. Going back to MMO terminology, keep your PvP out of my PvE. Anything that can turn off the invincibility of my home base on my non-PvP server that allows someone to blow up everything i've ever done in the game while I'm not even online... I wouldn't wait for it to happen, I would uninstall StarMade the instant that got announced.

Yes, this is Starmade, and one of the great things about Starmade is: Configs.
There is no reason to not add anything like this if you also add it to the configs, as the configs already contain a setting for the Homebase invincibility being disabled once a faction lost all faction points and sectors. So with a config setting you could just disable it, and you could Carebear all day long, without hampering the fun for people who think differently than you.

Thats the great thing about configs.
Dont like it? Turn it off.
Dont like it and you dont have a server? Look for a server without it.

So i dont get why you are so much against this, did you not know about Starmades extensive configs?