Brainstorm This Astronaut Mode gameplay.

[RoyalWolfe]

with the recent changes already being made to the game whats become more and more obvious, is that one area of gameplay has been more and more neglected. so i now would like to warn others of the incoming large sets of text to read, I'm highlighting the important parts with bold text to let you skim them all easier.

That problem is the gameplay not pertaining to the use and or building of ships. Now the reason has been that it is where the core of gameplay, has been, and will remain for the see able future. And that is somewhat a good thing. But the ships while impressive, are cold, dead, and lifeless. Well this is a problem as well.

Even himself is starting to notice this fact. His brief but often revealing interactions with the community have at least noted more commentary towards this problem as well.

OK so we know the problem is that the ships work now, but what do you do with them right? well I have a few blanketed ideas, but all of which need some brainstorming on, and finishing up of details, to get them into a state of which to test them in the current game.

The first set of ideas are already happening, the fauna are indeed coming soon. with them will be new environments to interact with. and new things in them to also interact with. well its has been brought up if we get creatures they will need to drop loot, this is also confirmed to be the case. so flora which is already existing in the game, will also need such changes as well. all of these leads towards farming, both in mobs, and of plants. so all of that is coming, and that is just fine.

But, what we really need is some more gameplay changes, other than to the environment but in fact added to Dave (or for those that use the female skin, Daisy) himself. He will need to evolve as well, or the problem only will get larger.

so I propose to you the next set of challenges to overcome after this fauna update happens. first of which is something you shelved long enough already. The Helmet. OK I know its already in the game. yes, but it doesn't quite work, you can in fact take it off yes. But, Right now the animation for this has been broken for the longest time. and this is due to the fact that other things have crowded its getting fixed. but its only the start of a bigger project.

It's time to take the suit off!

It's time to take off that space suit! to do that we need more than just an item we can put on the hot bar. we need a real inventory UI screen. one with the slots to equip and unequippe things into. that started to become possible when the crafting system got an update adding in the ability to begin that process using the inventory crafting system. that too got depreciated when the new revamp made it totally useless. But I have ideas to fix that as well, well get to that later on. so what I'm suggesting now, are a few changes to the game UI that will need to be done soon and not later, so they need to be prioritized a bit. One of those is the need for an equipment inventory UI. a new sub screen that player will slot things into. right now all we would have are two types of things to put in those slots, and that is the basic idea.

the helmet would go into one of these slots. obviously the other type would be a slot for the many beam weapons we currently have. so this is going to change the way we play the game. it will also mean the addition of even more items to the game. the first of which I believe is that darn suit I was talking about earlier. That will also need a slot and an accompanying new player item model change as well. likewise the player itself will need a new skeleton model for the out of suit skin as well. once this change is done, we can begin to change or add other new things to it at a later date.

did a long time ago during the huge Q&A event say that he intended to allow us to eventually take that space suit off. well It's time now to do so. it will also like the helmet need its own skin as well, and he also mentioned that means that Dave will now need a new character model change as well. That is one thing that need to happen soon. but before that happens we need that equipment screen to come in first. so I propose not that it just be slots you put things into that's the obvious factor, but that it adds the items in but not take up space on the hot bar unless they need to. the helmet for example doesn't, putting it on should just happen when you place it in this slot. it don't need to take up my precious hot bar space.

weapons and tools

here is where the idea also makes the changes to the game we currently play. there are already some weapons and tools in the game which we can already get and use, and they are getting quite numerous.

But here to solve the problem of item bloat, I propose also taking those off the hot bar, but not to free up space. I suggest that they be done this way to limit how many you can carry at any one time. that way we need to manage what actually goes into our players inventory a little more than we do now.

how it works is simple, and this involves something we are already getting, if you download the latest dev build, you will see that we are getting new and, even more rows of hot bars. currently I saw this was only currently working for flight mode only. So my suggestion is doing the same with the weapons and tools.

Let us slot them into the inventory screen, and have them selectable using a hot key toolbar. Also have this allow us to then just swap between a weapon, which goes into one slot representing say one of Dave's hands, and have the tools separated into another slot, say representing Dave's other hand. Then you simply switch between the two by pressing the hot key say for example the T key like the weapons menu works for controlling ships weapons. likewise the concept of getting them out would need a toggle as well, say the H key to holster or draw them out.

 

[questorhank]

Sounds like this would go well with a suggestion from the old site:
http://oldsite.star-made.org/content/personal-defense-armor-weapons-boarding-robots-and-medicine

 

[RoyalWolfe]

Sounds like this would go well with a suggestion from the old site:
http://oldsite.star-made.org/content/personal-defense-armor-weapons-boarding-robots-and-medicine

all of those are great ideas. i agree adding them would be a benefit.

 

[Visitor]

There were some ideas regarding that in the past, and while I'd like to see proper inventory screen with equipment slots (in fact, I've made a post about it which in turn links to another huge post in a thread with idea regarding such things) I first would like stuff like cockpits etc finished.

Other than that, I hope for (and even somewhat expect, since that's where I plan to find much of my enjoyment of the game) more shipless gameplay, together with some simple survival mechanics (limited oxygen, different climate/atmosphere requiring different equipment and so on) and generally - things to do as a character, not as a possessed ship.

 

[RoyalWolfe]

i think where all the talk of this or that needing to happen soon thing lets all just agree that it just needs to happen at some point, and leave it at that. for now baby steps lets keep it simple. first thing to make the whole idea work will be two things getting the equipment UI in the game is the first thing, then getting the ability to take the suit off would be the second goal after that all further additions can taker their time.

 

[mo05mAn]

Adding more astronaut mode game play would be a blast. But what fun would it be having all the tools/gadgets with you at the beginning. I think the shops should sell them or they should be crafted, preferably crafted.

Armor for the astronaut would be cool, maybe different space suits with different perks, like speed but less armor or slow but more armor. Weapons should be buffed, there should be a variety of weapons, maybe instead of just laser, sniper, there should be like a weapon that uses different materials to get different buffs and debuffs(if any) just like how minecraft has wood to be the cheapest and worst, then diamond that is more durable and is more efficient. If we use that system there would be a more variety of tools, armor, and weapons which may allow more astronaut v astronaut game play.

the tools, armor, and weapons should be crafted in my opinion. Some should be easy and some should be hard to craft. Hardest to craft should be able to take down small fighters (just like in titanfall where foot soldiers can take down titans) which would make astronaut mode more interesting. Adding jet packs would help that. I also think that debuffs would be necessary to prevent the astronaut to be overpowered.

Another way to make astronaut mode more interesting is to have view bobing, like when the player starts to move, moving in gravity, using tools, and firing weapons. the firing weapons recoil shouldn't be instant, i think the cross hair should go up in a accelerating pace. If Schine is going to implement this, don't make it like red crucible where the cross hair goes up instantly. weapons shouldn't be perfectly accurate. Maybe the game can track the usage of those weapons and when a player extensively uses the weapons/, give him skill buffs like increased accuracy. This should also be used for tools, giving more efficiency as players use it more (max should be a small percentage, something like a sub 10%) players new to the weapon/tool should be still efficient compared to the weapon normal stats, these buffs should be like 1-3% buffs when the player is stationary. Using weapons while moving in gravity should be fairly inaccurate, using them in space should be more accurate because players float in space without moving body parts.

I've got some more ideas but i don't expect some of them to be implemented into the game, some feedback would be nice
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There were some ideas regarding that in the past, and while I'd like to see proper inventory screen with equipment slots (in fact, I've made a post about it which in turn links to another huge post in a thread with idea regarding such things) I first would like stuff like cockpits etc finished.

Other than that, I hope for (and even somewhat expect, since that's where I plan to find much of my enjoyment of the game) more shipless gameplay, together with some simple survival mechanics (limited oxygen, different climate/atmosphere requiring different equipment and so on) and generally - things to do as a character, not as a possessed ship.

I agree with you very much on how some survival mechanics should be implemented, this might go well with different types of suits.

I also do agree that cockpits should have higher priority but astronaut mode should be a fairly medium priority.

 

[nightwalker_007]

I have brought up problems with playing as an astronaut in http://starmadedock.net/threads/astronaut-from-no-gear-to-a-ship-is-impossible.8062/

I'd love a new game mode in which you start off being placed on (or in orbit) an unvisited word (which is an attribute the game does keep track of) without any gear. Maybe a wrecked escape pod or something without a core-- just an undeathinator. The problem is, if you're just a lone astronaut without any gear and stuck in a gravity well, you'll never fly again. There is simply no way for you to craft a device that can generate power for your factory.

I'd love to see the astronaut have more capabilities and gear. Sheesh, a personal single-use warp device would make a great escape pod (imagine hitting a button on your ship to start the self destruct, and just warp out), a jet pack for moving faster through space would be great too.

 

[mo05mAn]

I have brought up problems with playing as an astronaut in http://starmadedock.net/threads/astronaut-from-no-gear-to-a-ship-is-impossible.8062/

I'd love a new game mode in which you start off being placed on (or in orbit) an unvisited word (which is an attribute the game does keep track of) without any gear. Maybe a wrecked escape pod or something without a core-- just an undeathinator. The problem is, if you're just a lone astronaut without any gear and stuck in a gravity well, you'll never fly again. There is simply no way for you to craft a device that can generate power for your factory.

I'd love to see the astronaut have more capabilities and gear. Sheesh, a personal single-use warp device would make a great escape pod (imagine hitting a button on your ship to start the self destruct, and just warp out), a jet pack for moving faster through space would be great too.

i do like the lone astronaut thing. I think the crashed pod needs to contain a few supplies then combined with the planet's resources, have the ability to get the astronaut out of the gravity well. (lot of crafting).

the self destruct sounds awesome, have a timer?

however i don't think there should be a personal warp. if there would be an warp, there should be an inner ship warp where you can warp from the bridge to the hanger or something. Or there could be no warp and the pilot would face fire spewing out of the hallways? that might be fun.

 

[Bench]

Astronaut mode is definitely important to the game, I think we all recognize that. And with things like missions etc becoming more of a thing in the future there will be more reason for player interactions. Again with taking the player out of the core and into some form of captain's chair we'll see more emphasis on the astronaut. Within our planning structure we have a number of development branches, things like pvp and building are some of them (you can see them as labels on the cards in the roadmap) one of them is also Astronaut. So we have features that are specifically planned for the astronaut, we recognize there's a big RP element to the game and part of that can be expanded upon through expanding the features with the astronaut, so expect to hear more at some point. Until then keep on brainstorming

 

[mo05mAn]

I think it would be very fun to start the game on a planet instead of a shop. We are on a planet now and we have invented space ships. have the game do that. I'm not saying to have long research periods to get the ships. I'm saying to mine gather resources and buy tools from the shop on the planet.

the spawning planet should regenerate its crust so new players have the same chance for resources. Server should be able to modify the planets without it regenerating. shops on the planet should be limited to encourage crafting. once the player has exited the planet, they can use the normal shops that sell everything. players can come back to the planet to help their friends with resources or just let them get on their ship and leave.

 

[Byamarro]

Oxygen and hunger/thrist would also improve feel that You're astronaut not a ship. :P

 

[mo05mAn]

the when you get shot display in astronaut mode is not that alarming, there should be a scream like in minecraft or the red should cover more of the screen. probably making pvp more exiting.

 

[Visitor]

I think it would be very fun to start the game on a planet instead of a shop. We are on a planet now and we have invented space ships. have the game do that. I'm not saying to have long research periods to get the ships. I'm saying to mine gather resources and buy tools from the shop on the planet.

Maybe starting scenarios could be provided, to be set as default for the new players joining a server or chosen for single player game where location, starting loadout, certain events/structures nearby and maybe even faction standing could be determined.

the spawning planet should regenerate its crust so new players have the same chance for resources. Server should be able to modify the planets without it regenerating.

I am somewhat not fond of this. Aside from modified and urbanized planets messing stuff up by regrowing, I don't see why playerbase should be limited to a single planet.

I understand that regeneration is for the sake of not having any player stranded, but why not to provide starting cash/resources by self-replenishing future events (small ship/escape pod crashing onto planet allowing some scavenging, meteors with some ore falling here or there) and quests (simply being paid in credits for the shop or some basic ship components where at quest completion player could choose reward from several offered options) for a scenario of player starting ont he planet without much available initially.

I also would like for players to be spawned all over the place, though I guess having one starting location as a server config could also be a thing.

Oxygen and hunger/thrist would also improve feel that You're astronaut not a ship.

I am generally a big fan of survival mechanics, though in case of StarMade, it really depends how the above would be implemented. I'd like limited oxygen available in the spacesuit with the helmet on (and immediate health drain, or even better - blacking out after a few seconds and death - should one have it off in an atmosphere unsuitable for human life) as well as having life support on ships both players and NPC crewmen would require (already suggested in threads about interiors of the ship).

I am unsure about hunger/thirst though. On one hand, it could be pretty great, on the other it would have to be balanced enough that it isn't a tedious chore when one is simply forced to go to the inventory every minute to chomp down another protein bar - I'd prefer hunger/thirst (frankly, I think lumping them into single 'nutrition' value would be enough to decrease micromanaging) to grow very slowly, but at the same time for edibles to not be just a bunch of items one buys a few thousands of and sticks them into the inventory (in general, probably inventory space, amount of items per stack in character inventory vs containers etc would have to be adjusted). Maybe need to process organic matter (flora/fauna) would allow survival rations, with stations offering 'refilling' on site in some pub or restaurant? Or even, on top of that adding slow but steady food decay for stored organic items/components to disencourage hoarding.

I certainly would enjoy some edibles just for the sake of fun - recreational (or maybe combat?) drugs, intoxicants and snacks.

Either way, make sure one cannot use them with helmet on, Schine. And that they aren't just health potions.

Until then keep on brainstorming

Oh, I could think of plenty things in this theme that'd make the game far more satisfying for quite a few folks (from what I recall in the previous discussions). Aside from the content of this post and the one before with a link to another big post about modular/slotted helmets, armors and weapons, I certainly would like to see, for example, status effects when it comes to characters.

I don't expect the game to ever get as hardcore as it was in classics like Robinson's Requiem (in fact, I suspect it wouldn't fit this game that well), but I'd like for example some organics that one could press into an edible bar to turn out toxic, psychoactive etc. Or an atmosphere of some planets/nebulae (if those ever would get added) that could also have an effect on an astronaut beside draining health - with some of those effects, like radiation, penetrating through insufficiently reinforced suit even when the helmet is on.

That and characters actually interacting manually with their surrounding (using consoles to control things including ships, sitting in chairs, lying on beds/bunks, falling onto floor when killed in gravity or floating with limbs spread out when done in in zero-G) together with proper animations would be most of what I would really expect as basics of shipless gameplay (when not counting things already confirmed like structures to be explored on foot and quests or things that await polishing and balancing like boarding one can very easily protect oneself from).

The problems I see right now regard the fact that big part of astronaut content would probably take place on space stations and planets:

The former would need to be remade when all the features supporting astronaut play would come in (not to mention associated eye-candy when it comes to such, like actual NPCs ranging from random folks or security patrols to service and quest-givers) though that's not that much of a problem as I know of at least a few community members already hoping for new default trade/neutral/pirate station contest so they can show-off their rail and logic systems.

The latter is a bigger hurdle though as planets are still somewhat in need of optimization and improvement (generally, the whole engine - if possible - would benefit from some more work regarding handling bigger structures). From weird physics to features not directly related to astronaut mode but quite noticeable (collisions etc) quite a few features need to be finished and polished.

 

[SomethingSlimy]

Here's my problem with astronaut gameplay: My character moves like a brick! When I press "w," I instantly move forward at max speed. When I let go of "w," I instantly stop. Instantly. When I jump, I come down at exactly the same speed that I came up.

When I press shift, I go slower.

When I press shift, I go slower.

Everyone go load up your copy of Half-Life 2, and then tell me how much better it feels to move in that game.

 

[jayman38]

Here's my problem with astronaut gameplay: My character moves like a brick! When I press "w," I instantly move forward at max speed. When I let go of "w," I instantly stop. Instantly. When I jump, I come down at exactly the same speed that I came up.

When I press shift, I go slower.

When I press shift, I go slower.

Everyone go load up your copy of Half-Life 2, and then tell me how much better it feels to move in that game.

I had a hard time deciding between "agree" and "funny". It's funny cuz it's true! "When I press shift, I go slower." I can almost hear your teeth grinding, and I agree.

 

[ltmauve]

Either way, make sure one cannot use them with helmet on, Schine.

Eh maybe there should be some things you can eat with your helmet on, but they either can't replenish your "nutrition" bar up to full or cost a lot more than normal food.

And that they aren't just health potions.

Are you saying you don't want anything like a health potion?

Or even, on top of that adding slow but steady food decay for stored organic items/components to disencourage hoarding.

I'd imagine there'd be some sort of "volatile" storage that takes power for this (and possible creature creation stuff) After all you'd want to be able to store large amounts of this on your agricultural worlds for supporting your NPC army.

I certainly would enjoy some edibles just for the sake of fun - recreational (or maybe combat?) drugs, intoxicants and snacks.

If you want a serious mechanic behind this, we could have the crew of ships/stations randomly start craving certain foodstuffs or drugs. Or if you aren't taking good care of a crew, drug smuggling starts happening.

 

[mo05mAn]

Here's my problem with astronaut gameplay: My character moves like a brick! When I press "w," I instantly move forward at max speed. When I let go of "w," I instantly stop. Instantly. When I jump, I come down at exactly the same speed that I came up.

When I press shift, I go slower.

When I press shift, I go slower.

Everyone go load up your copy of Half-Life 2, and then tell me how much better it feels to move in that game.

I would personally love for the astronaut mode to have a more smooth movement. look at space engineers, its similar to starmade, the movement feels like a spaceship and it should. but the acceleration cant be too slow. moving in gravity has to have view bobing if enabled, it needs to be more like the source engine.

 

[Visitor]

Eh maybe there should be some things you can eat with your helmet on, but they either can't replenish your "nutrition" bar up to full or cost a lot more than normal food.

To be honest, I'd rather forbid eating when fully covered by hermetic suit altogether. With hunger raising sufficiently slow, one would be able to easily go for EVA or whatever without starving but it would prevent sillyness like people enjoying some special sandwiches when standing near hull breach or generally eating leisurely in environment that is lethal.

Are you saying you don't want anything like a health potion?

Yes, I don't want health potion, at least not as a food. Some side-effect of slightly increased health regeneration (that would be more of a gimmick rather than a thing actually helping during a combat) - maybe. But for efficient healing I'd rather have actual medbays.

I'd imagine there'd be some sort of "volatile" storage that takes power for this (and possible creature creation stuff) After all you'd want to be able to store large amounts of this on your agricultural worlds for supporting your NPC army.

Maybe special containers that can store ingredients rather than finished edibles. The point is that I'd avoid allowing players to hoard great amounts of food. I also must say I didn't count in NPCs as ones needing food. I would certianly hope they'd have requirements for 'ambient' things like oxygen as after making some life-support system one wouldn't have to micromanage it, but it'd be a bit more bothersome with food.

I do recognize the fact that having a crew that needs to eat could make a really good balance for the current situation where players amass wealth but they have no standing expenses and merely use it to get more ships/constructions at their leisure, but I really am not sure if it's worth allowing hunger to be just another gauge to top off with mass of food stored somewhere - if it'd be the case the whole hunger thing does become more management bother rather than a challenge or exercise in planning and resource management.

Maybe setting double standards for food, like crew requiring slightly different thing than the player does would work, but that'd would also be rather bad for immersion.

If you want a serious mechanic behind this, we could have the crew of ships/stations randomly start craving certain foodstuffs or drugs. Or if you aren't taking good care of a crew, drug smuggling starts happening.

Stations 'craving' different things/effects could be a good basis for a fetch quest or general trading, but I'd rather not make the crew too demanding here - again, having crew be a drain on resources would be good, but a need to keep an eye constantly on their wants/needs would be bothersome long-term, even for some of the players liking playing The (Space) Sims.

 

[ltmauve]

To be honest, I'd rather forbid eating when fully covered by hermetic suit altogether. With hunger raising sufficiently slow, one would be able to easily go for EVA or whatever without starving but it would prevent sillyness like people enjoying some special sandwiches when standing near hull breach or generally eating leisurely in environment that is lethal.

I was thinking something like they wouldn't lower your hunger below, say 80%. It'd be pretty much "keep me from dying" stuff. Not something you use unless you absolutely need to (like you bailed out of a ship to sneak away from pirates and now you're stuck in the middle of nowhere.)
Stuff that gives you special effects, or the stuff that raises NPC morale, would definitely be atmosphere only.

Yes, I don't want health potion, at least not as a food. Some side-effect of slightly increased health regeneration (that would be more of a gimmick rather than a thing actually helping during a combat) - maybe. But for efficient healing I'd rather have actual medbays.

True with medbays and healbeams health potions are probably unneeded.

if it'd be the case the whole hunger thing does become more management bother

Yeah that's something that needs to be avoided.


Some more thoughts: In astronaut mode, press "z" (or whatever) at a block to change your orientation to "feet-down" at the block. If close enough, you also mag-lock onto it. Hold the key to free-rotate.

 

[nightwalker_007]

Hunger isn't something I would want to see. Sure, people may call this "minecraft in space" but we don't have to copy every aspect of minecraft. Sheesh, astronauts can survive without a helmet in space.

There should be more options to explore. Maybe procedurally generated objects in space, with clues leading to other objects and sites. Crashed ships on planets and what not. I personally would love to see a game mode where you start off as a crashed ship on a planet (in reality, the "crashed ship" would be part of the planet, and salvaging it would only produce scrap). From there, the player would have to get off the planet and go on from there. It would make creating your first spaceship even more satisfying.

I'm a big fan of making planets only salvageable as an astronaut. It would also be neat if planets occasionally spawned hidden bases an what not. This would force people out of their ships

I'd like to see Lasers with customizable beams. Heal and power beams should get a unique texture so people don't confuse them with weapon fire