An analysis of the relationship between planets, faction interactions and resource acquisition.

[The_Onion]

I love the idea of automated harvesters, but I hope that setting up one of these harvesters would involve more depth than simply plopping down a harvester block and collecting the goodies. Perhaps something along these lines:

Tier 1: basic harvester. Collects resources and deposits into connected storage. harvester can be switched from harvesting ore/shards, or harvesting fuel(more on that below)
Tier 2: link to docking area. resources will transfer to ship storage when it docks on that docking area.
Tier 3: link a structure that increases efficiency when powered. Uses harvested fuel to operate. Can add storage tanks to increase fuel storage. When out of fuel, harvester will still function, but without the efficiency bonus.
Tier4: link a laser focus. the laser focus raises the chance of harvesting specific ores/shards. Can only link one focus per harvester. Uses fuel for power.

I think this would go a long way in creating an immersive universe, filled with supply ships flying around, refueling harvesters, collecting resources, etc(particularly if/when we are able to give AI designated routes to fly)

 

[Keptick]

I love the idea of automated harvesters, but I hope that setting up one of these harvesters would involve more depth than simply plopping down a harvester block and collecting the goodies. Perhaps something along these lines:

Tier 1: basic harvester. Collects resources and deposits into connected storage. harvester can be switched from harvesting ore/shards, or harvesting fuel(more on that below)
Tier 2: link to docking area. resources will transfer to ship storage when it docks on that docking area.
Tier 3: link a structure that increases efficiency when powered. Uses harvested fuel to operate. Can add storage tanks to increase fuel storage. When out of fuel, harvester will still function, but without the efficiency bonus.
Tier4: link a laser focus. the laser focus raises the chance of harvesting specific ores/shards. Can only link one focus per harvester. Uses fuel for power.

I think this would go a long way in creating an immersive universe, filled with supply ships flying around, refueling harvesters, collecting resources, etc(particularly if/when we are able to give AI designated routes to fly)

Uh... I kinda covered that in the OP...

 

[The_Onion]

Uh... I kinda covered that in the OP...

I was merely expanding on your idea.

 

[Keptick]

Could a moderator please move this to the suggestion section? MrFURB WarSong BearishMushroom

 

[MrFURB]

Thread moved by OP request.

 

[Keptick]

Thread moved by OP request.

Thanks ^_^

 

[Snk]

What we need is the devs input on this. They seem to have been absent from the forums recently.

 

[Mered4]

What we need is the devs input on this. They seem to have been absent from the forums recently.

Oh, he's not absent. Hi schema !!

 

[lupoCani]

Could a moderator please move this to the suggestion section? MrFURB WarSong BearishMushroom

Is this such a good idea? The suggestions forum is where threads die within days, particularly the well-written and agreeable ones, since they aren't flooded with bumps from people critizising it. I've always thought this is why the manifesto-style threads belong in the significantly more hospitable general forum.

 

[petlahk]

I would love to be able to build AI miners.

That would be great if we are doomed to stick with the current system, though Kep's system seems all around more fun.
[DOUBLEPOST=1419202695,1419199752][/DOUBLEPOST]I haven't read through all 4 pages to make sure nothing like what i'm about to post has been posted, though I did read through the first.

First, i'd like to ask a question, with the current crafting system will this method require enough incentive to capture, and mine multiple planets? By that I mean, to me it seems that even with one planet plate's worth of resources it still takes a lot more to manufacture the parts needed to build a large ship. I may be incorrect, but if that's the case then this system is fine as it is. If i'm incorrect, then each planet in total should produce less resources so that the expansion and fighting is still necessary. A number of planets should be required in order to build a large ship, let alone a few.

Another person said that the universes have no boundaries, and are infinite. This may present a problem to the idea that it encourages conflict.

After reading some comments i'm also kind of concerned that it may be too much of a challenge to solo players. Asteroids should still have the standard resources, and should still be open to mining.

Someone else mentioned that pirates should be attracted to planets with mining cores on them, I think that this is a great idea.

I may have missed parts of the point of your post after reading down the comments. Though I think my comment has some validity.

 

[Kotking]

Planetary mining... hmm never thought about that, mostly because for my low end PC planets are devastating for my fps counter. I would like to share my idea that fits and maybe add something to your suggestion.
The thing is I got myself a good hangar type base with friends.We got some materials from asteroids and we started a Battlecruiser type(From SC) ship. There is 2 ways to gather resources - Asteroids/Planets and pirates. We can find Huge stations worth of millions of credits! The fact is there is no point to have more than 1 homebase station(As stations won't lag as much as planets), none.
My Idea is to make decayed Mining Stations. Stations which will generate ores/crystals over time via transporter ships. The cost for these kind of stations must be billions, as they are one of the kind stations and maybe even have rare spawn chance/ spawn in distant systems(allowing/requiring more travel as shops are only near start system). This will also make players to be more creative against enemies.He got station in system xx xx xx, we must get it but don't use rockets, we need this station operating or there is no point.In other hand, The Faction YYYYY is to strong, we must destroy their stations!
Your idea is good when there is a lot of factions and not many planets around, but won't give importance for a faction to make a move.They got working miners on that planet! Don't bother, in system across there are a lot more planets.
I agree with you on point that there is little interactions between factions and there is no benefit for aliance or war, but stations also need some value. The only value for stations are that they are so beautifull... you don't want to touch them even.

 

[sadron]

You spelled the word 'losing' wrong in your point, please fix, x-x

 

[Blakpik]

I just read your post and I must say, are you a wizard? Everything you said was ingenious. If it comes down to it, I will definitely vote for this.

 

[Snk]

Planetary mining... hmm never thought about that, mostly because for my low end PC planets are devastating for my fps counter. I would like to share my idea that fits and maybe add something to your suggestion.
The thing is I got myself a good hangar type base with friends.We got some materials from asteroids and we started a Battlecruiser type(From SC) ship. There is 2 ways to gather resources - Asteroids/Planets and pirates. We can find Huge stations worth of millions of credits! The fact is there is no point to have more than 1 homebase station(As stations won't lag as much as planets), none.
My Idea is to make decayed Mining Stations. Stations which will generate ores/crystals over time via transporter ships. The cost for these kind of stations must be billions, as they are one of the kind stations and maybe even have rare spawn chance/ spawn in distant systems(allowing/requiring more travel as shops are only near start system). This will also make players to be more creative against enemies.He got station in system xx xx xx, we must get it but don't use rockets, we need this station operating or there is no point.In other hand, The Faction YYYYY is to strong, we must destroy their stations!
Your idea is good when there is a lot of factions and not many planets around, but won't give importance for a faction to make a move.They got working miners on that planet! Don't bother, in system across there are a lot more planets.
I agree with you on point that there is little interactions between factions and there is no benefit for aliance or war, but stations also need some value. The only value for stations are that they are so beautifull... you don't want to touch them even.

Ooh, I like the idea of space stations that generate a small amount of goods. But I think planets would be a smarter idea - with stations, you'd need to have AI transports mine and deliver goods. With a planet, you could just plop down some mining blocks.

 

[Mr. V]

Great ideas - in general it would be nice if there were ways beyond building larger salvage ships to expedite the mining process as you get more established in the game. Automated planet minding sounds like a fantastic idea (both to decrease the tedium of mining and to motivate player expansion/competition in general).

 

[Utopiaman]

This seems awesome the main cause of lag on planets seems to be their animated cores and partially their rotation and orbit (not sure if orbit exists; haven't had time to check)

 

[Keptick]

This seems awesome the main cause of lag on planets seems to be their animated cores and partially their rotation and orbit (not sure if orbit exists; haven't had time to check)

I think that it's mainly because even the smaller ones have over 10 million blocks :p

 

[Utopiaman]

true the rotation seems to be a lot of it

 

[Malacodor]

I think that it's mainly because even the smaller ones have over 10 million blocks :p

Right, a pentagon can be made out of three triangles, while each cube requires two triangles per visible face, and each triangle costs GPU power.

 

[Valiant70]

This is an analysis of the current situation of faction interactions and general game economics, as well as a suggestion to fix to a LOT of issues can currently plague the game. This is a long one, but I strongly suggest that you read it. And yes, I know that the current game is incomplete, but I'd still like to get this out. Lets start with the facts:

Facts:

1. Planets are the best source of resources. They can provide many asteroids worth of resources with a single plate. Combined with the fact that they respawn (harvest one completely, kill it and reload the sector) this makes them the ideal source of resources for all factions and players out there.
2. Mining planets causes extreme server lag. (From personal experience, starting to mine a planet raises my ping, along with everyone else's, from 14 to a couple of hundreds on Elwyn Eternity, a very beefy server.)
3. Incentives for factions and/or players to interact are practically null. Why would I go fight this other faction when there's absolutely no benefit to do so? Especially when I risk loosing a ship that I worked very hard to produce?
4. Assumption: Mining is the equivalent to an MMO grind in that it is a very basic, repetitive and boring thing to do. Mining is NOT fun, a game should be played for fun.
5. Capturing and extending a territory has practically no use. Even an entire faction would have a hard time depleting the asteroid belts of an entire system before they respawn.
6. There is currently no fp penalty for loosing territory.

Conclusion from the above points:

Factions have absolutely no incentive to interact and combat due to the 100% loss no gain for any of the factions (except if they want to harvest the other faction's ships, which would just cause said faction to not show up at the next fight). Capturing more systems currently serves no purpose other than bragging rights as there is nothing to do with these extra systems. In addition, defending captured systems (that aren't the home system) serves no purpose since there is absolutely no penalty to loosing it. Simply waiting for the aggressor to leave and recapturing it with a 5 block outpost is the best way to go (which is very bad game-play-wise).

The solution below is something that I think would solve all this. However, even if it's rejected by the devs, the above points will still stand.

The solution™:

Notice: Please read this completely as it wouldn't work if a single point is missing. Do not argue or comment if you haven't read and understood every point and what they entail.

1. Make planets invulnerable against mining beams (impossible to mine).
2. Each planet in the universe has the same resource regeneration rate (in minutes or seconds, depending what's better for performance).
3. The base regeneration rate of a planet can be influenced (increased/decreased) by multiple factors:

• • The radius of a planet. A planet with greater radius has a higher regeneration rate.
  • The distance from the center of a galaxy. The center having the richest planets and the external systems having the poorest ones. For example, a 200m radius planet located at the center of the galaxy would have a greater regeneration rate than an identical planet located at the tip of a galactic arm.
  • (optional) The more planets in a system the richer they are. The reason I say this is optional is because, while not being essential, it would encourage people to fight over rich planetary systems even more.
  • (optional) Show the sovereignty of planets on the star map. This is just a quality of life feature and isn't essential.

Ok, so that's the planetary part of things. Now, you might be asking: "what the hell is he on about". The juicy part comes next:

1. Implement a new block, called the "deep core miner". This block could be placed on planets and would essentially harvest (produce) minerals that are contained in the plate it's on. This could be linked to plex storages and would deposit the minerals there (just like mining beams). The materials being harvested aren't actually taken from the planet's blocks. As in, it doesn't actually mine the blocks out of a planet. Instead, it kinda poofs them into existence (more on that latter, for those concerned about realism).
2. The "deep core miner" would have a base harvest rate (per second or minute, as with planet regen rate). This rate could be increased with the use of harvest enhancers. Every enhancer block would add a set amount of "harvest speed" to the "deep core miner". However, don't forget that the planet has a resource regeneration speed. Having your harvest rate go over the regen rate would be a waste of extender blocks.
3. Each plate has it's own "deep core miner". Meaning that if you want to completely exploit a planet you need a "deep core miner" on every single plate. Quite some work to set up, but very rewarding.
4. The territory mining bonuses apply to the "deep core miner". Meaning that being in friendly territory grants a x12 (or whatever is set on the server) bonus to the materials harvested.
5. The miners must ABSOLUTELY keep on working even when the sector is unloaded.

Addressing concerns:

• Asteroids would become useless
  • not really. Asteroids are the only source of colored rock (such as larimar), which is required to make colored hull. Besides, it's not like a player could set up harvesters right off the bat. Some asteroid mining would be required to craft these harvesters. In addition, planetary mining is already much more time efficient than asteroid mining.
• Infinite resources = really bad for economy
  • When you think about it, resources are already infinite. Planets DO respawn, providing an infinite source of easy to obtain minerals. My suggestion would eliminate the server crippling lag, provide players with materials in a non-boring way (one would still need to set-up harvesters. Depending on their cost it might not be easy to do). More combat would also mean more resources disappearing, thus, balance is achieved.
• A single player could harvest multiple planets on his own, meaning that he'd have an extreme abundance of resources.
  • While this is true, remember that only the home base is invincible. If you don't like the fact that a player captured 15 solar systems then simply attack the planets and make them your own! First of all, a single person would never be able to defend a massive planetary array. Secondly, a player could never faction 15 systems because of the fp cost. So, while it would be possible for a single player to become insanely rich, it is extremely unlikely. Setting up harvesters dozens of planets alone would also be a massive undertaking. Remember, it is a lot harder to defend than to attack. If a player manages to defend 15 planets on his own then all powers to him, he deserves to keep them. Also don't forget that he'd have to go to each harvester one at a time to get the stuff they produced, just that alone would take a fairly big effort.

In conclusion:

While this may seem overly complicated at first it's actually a fairly simple systen. The benefits is that factions would have a concrete incentive to expand and attack/defend their territory. Imagine an 8 planet system located close to the galactic core. Everyone and their mother would try to get their hands on it's planets to set up very profitable harvesters. In my opinion, having to fight over resources would revive the flame of factions in a very fun way! It's also much better than getting bored while lagging the server to death (aka: the current resource acquisition system). This could also bring players together. Factions could band up and defend their territory together (since planet plates are independent you could have multiple factions harvesting a single planet). It could also potentially pave the way for ground combat (since capturing stuff is easier than having to rebuild everything).


Thanks for reading this, if you have any comments or concerns that I didn't cover then please let me know so that I can demolish address them . Just kidding, if you have anything positive or negative to say don't be shy and say it ^_^ (as long as it's constructive, please).

Ps: I wasn't sure if I should put this in general or suggestion sub-forums since it's part analysis part suggestion. Feel free to move the thread, if it's needed @mods.

Edit: changed the name from harvester to deep core miner. Credit goes to Crimson-Artist for the idea

You, sir, have earned a...
BIG, GREEN, ALL-CAPS, BOLD, ITALICIZED, UNDERLINED "YES"
This would solve so much! Oh, and what about making ore more common and crystals less common on planets and vice versa on 'roids, while increasing 'roid mineral density? The crystal/ore balance change alone would add incentive to asteroids.
[DOUBLEPOST=1419905411,1419905356][/DOUBLEPOST]REQUESTING STICKY!