An analysis of the relationship between planets, faction interactions and resource acquisition.

[Lidren]

I've already said I love your ideas. I have to disagree with two of your "facts" because they aren't. Planets do not naturally/are not supposed to "respawn". Also, I enjoy mining quite a bit and know a few others who do.

 

[Snk]

I've already said I love your ideas. I have to disagree with two of your "facts" because they aren't. Planets do not naturally/are not supposed to "respawn". Also, I enjoy mining quite a bit and know a few others who do.

You can still mine on asteroids.

 

[Valiant70]

This is an analysis of the current situation of faction interactions and general game economics, as well as a suggestion to fix to a LOT of issues can currently plague the game. This is a long one, but I strongly suggest that you read it. And yes, I know that the current game is incomplete, but I'd still like to get this out. Lets start with the facts:

Facts:

1. Planets are the best source of resources. They can provide many asteroids worth of resources with a single plate. Combined with the fact that they respawn (harvest one completely, kill it and reload the sector) this makes them the ideal source of resources for all factions and players out there.
2. Mining planets causes extreme server lag. (From personal experience, starting to mine a planet raises my ping, along with everyone else's, from 14 to a couple of hundreds on Elwyn Eternity, a very beefy server.)
3. Incentives for factions and/or players to interact are practically null. Why would I go fight this other faction when there's absolutely no benefit to do so? Especially when I risk loosing a ship that I worked very hard to produce?
4. Assumption: Mining is the equivalent to an MMO grind in that it is a very basic, repetitive and boring thing to do. Mining is NOT fun, a game should be played for fun.
5. Capturing and extending a territory has practically no use. Even an entire faction would have a hard time depleting the asteroid belts of an entire system before they respawn.
6. There is currently no fp penalty for loosing territory.

Conclusion from the above points:

Factions have absolutely no incentive to interact and combat due to the 100% loss no gain for any of the factions (except if they want to harvest the other faction's ships, which would just cause said faction to not show up at the next fight). Capturing more systems currently serves no purpose other than bragging rights as there is nothing to do with these extra systems. In addition, defending captured systems (that aren't the home system) serves no purpose since there is absolutely no penalty to loosing it. Simply waiting for the aggressor to leave and recapturing it with a 5 block outpost is the best way to go (which is very bad game-play-wise).

The solution below is something that I think would solve all this. However, even if it's rejected by the devs, the above points will still stand.

The solution™:

Notice: Please read this completely as it wouldn't work if a single point is missing. Do not argue or comment if you haven't read and understood every point and what they entail.

1. Make planets invulnerable against mining beams (impossible to mine).
2. Each planet in the universe has the same resource regeneration rate (in minutes or seconds, depending what's better for performance).
3. The base regeneration rate of a planet can be influenced (increased/decreased) by multiple factors:

• • The radius of a planet. A planet with greater radius has a higher regeneration rate.
  • The distance from the center of a galaxy. The center having the richest planets and the external systems having the poorest ones. For example, a 200m radius planet located at the center of the galaxy would have a greater regeneration rate than an identical planet located at the tip of a galactic arm.
  • (optional) The more planets in a system the richer they are. The reason I say this is optional is because, while not being essential, it would encourage people to fight over rich planetary systems even more.
  • (optional) Show the sovereignty of planets on the star map. This is just a quality of life feature and isn't essential.

Ok, so that's the planetary part of things. Now, you might be asking: "what the hell is he on about". The juicy part comes next:

1. Implement a new block, called the "deep core miner". This block could be placed on planets and would essentially harvest (produce) minerals that are contained in the plate it's on. This could be linked to plex storages and would deposit the minerals there (just like mining beams). The materials being harvested aren't actually taken from the planet's blocks. As in, it doesn't actually mine the blocks out of a planet. Instead, it kinda poofs them into existence (more on that latter, for those concerned about realism).
2. The "deep core miner" would have a base harvest rate (per second or minute, as with planet regen rate). This rate could be increased with the use of harvest enhancers. Every enhancer block would add a set amount of "harvest speed" to the "deep core miner". However, don't forget that the planet has a resource regeneration speed. Having your harvest rate go over the regen rate would be a waste of extender blocks.
3. Each plate has it's own "deep core miner". Meaning that if you want to completely exploit a planet you need a "deep core miner" on every single plate. Quite some work to set up, but very rewarding.
4. The territory mining bonuses apply to the "deep core miner". Meaning that being in friendly territory grants a x12 (or whatever is set on the server) bonus to the materials harvested.
5. The miners must ABSOLUTELY keep on working even when the sector is unloaded.

Addressing concerns:

• Asteroids would become useless
  • not really. Asteroids are the only source of colored rock (such as larimar), which is required to make colored hull. Besides, it's not like a player could set up harvesters right off the bat. Some asteroid mining would be required to craft these harvesters. In addition, planetary mining is already much more time efficient than asteroid mining.
• Infinite resources = really bad for economy
  • When you think about it, resources are already infinite. Planets DO respawn, providing an infinite source of easy to obtain minerals. My suggestion would eliminate the server crippling lag, provide players with materials in a non-boring way (one would still need to set-up harvesters. Depending on their cost it might not be easy to do). More combat would also mean more resources disappearing, thus, balance is achieved.
• A single player could harvest multiple planets on his own, meaning that he'd have an extreme abundance of resources.
  • While this is true, remember that only the home base is invincible. If you don't like the fact that a player captured 15 solar systems then simply attack the planets and make them your own! First of all, a single person would never be able to defend a massive planetary array. Secondly, a player could never faction 15 systems because of the fp cost. So, while it would be possible for a single player to become insanely rich, it is extremely unlikely. Setting up harvesters dozens of planets alone would also be a massive undertaking. Remember, it is a lot harder to defend than to attack. If a player manages to defend 15 planets on his own then all powers to him, he deserves to keep them. Also don't forget that he'd have to go to each harvester one at a time to get the stuff they produced, just that alone would take a fairly big effort.

In conclusion:

While this may seem overly complicated at first it's actually a fairly simple systen. The benefits is that factions would have a concrete incentive to expand and attack/defend their territory. Imagine an 8 planet system located close to the galactic core. Everyone and their mother would try to get their hands on it's planets to set up very profitable harvesters. In my opinion, having to fight over resources would revive the flame of factions in a very fun way! It's also much better than getting bored while lagging the server to death (aka: the current resource acquisition system). This could also bring players together. Factions could band up and defend their territory together (since planet plates are independent you could have multiple factions harvesting a single planet). It could also potentially pave the way for ground combat (since capturing stuff is easier than having to rebuild everything).


Thanks for reading this, if you have any comments or concerns that I didn't cover then please let me know so that I can demolish address them . Just kidding, if you have anything positive or negative to say don't be shy and say it ^_^ (as long as it's constructive, please).

Ps: I wasn't sure if I should put this in general or suggestion sub-forums since it's part analysis part suggestion. Feel free to move the thread, if it's needed @mods.

Edit: changed the name from harvester to deep core miner. Credit goes to Crimson-Artist for the idea

I had another idea about the whole planet value concern. What if instead of having random resources, planets had specific resources on them? I think this would drive factions to try to control one or more of each planet and trade with other factions if that is not possible. Natural resources are important to an economy, and if they're the same everywhere trade has a greater chance of stagnation.

 

[Snk]

I had another idea about the whole planet value concern. What if instead of having random resources, planets had specific resources on them? I think this would drive factions to try to control one or more of each planet and trade with other factions if that is not possible. Natural resources are important to an economy, and if they're the same everywhere trade has a greater chance of stagnation.

I think it should apply to whole systems instead of planets. Each system would have a higher concentration of one or maybe two ores, and once in a blue star three. They'd still have other ores, so a new player could get off the ground. But you couldn't support a larger faction with a couple of systems.

 

[lupoCani]

Aaaand this is buried beneath FTL tweaking, elevator, quest and docking system suggestions. I told you so, moving this to the suggestions forum was a horrible idea, you might as well have deleted it outright.

 

[Keptick]

Aaaand this is buried beneath FTL tweaking, elevator, quest and docking system suggestions. I told you so, moving this to the suggestions forum was a horrible idea, you might as well have deleted it outright.

Good point.... I'd have it moved back to general discussion but feel like it would be abusive...

 

[Snk]

Those mods need discipline anyways *whip*

 

[Comr4de]

every time someone uses the term "manifesto" at this point I take a shot

 

[C4N]

Agree

 

[Keptick]

every time someone uses the term "manifesto" at this point I take a shot

You might as well call the ambulance now

 

[Valiant70]

I think it should apply to whole systems instead of planets. Each system would have a higher concentration of one or maybe two ores, and once in a blue star three. They'd still have other ores, so a new player could get off the ground. But you couldn't support a larger faction with a couple of systems.

That too. I think we need differentiation between planets and asteroids as well as between systems.

 

[Lecic]

every time someone uses the term "manifesto" at this point I take a shot

Old thread, but...

 

[lupoCani]

If we can't have the thread moved back to the general discussion forum, how about we repost it?

 

[SgtFlexxx]

I might be the 1% or something here, but I have to respectfully disagree with most points

I don't think mining planets is that beneficial, nor is it by any means infinite resources since AFAIK they don't respawn, but even then, if they did, most of the community would not know that, so fixing an exploit with a solution isn't the best way to go, it's simply removing the exploit.

I think mining asteroids is best since you can easily mine an asteroid's resources AND it's minerals and refine both of them into capsules/Alloy/Circuits (It's been a while, so I don't remember what they're called)

I also know some might say that mining is boring, but for me, it's actually quite amusing. The whole crafting mechanics as well as building yourself a giant efficient mining ship and wiping asteroids clear within minutes would sustain your crafting needs for a while (Depending on what you're building)

That said, even though I think Asteroid mining is more beneficial, I don't think planet mining should go at all. Planets are the most obvious source of resources when they start up, whilst asteroids take a while to spot since they're much more spread out and have a much lower render distance.



Overall, IMO, the current system of mining and everything is fine as is, as long as Asteroids and Planets don't actually respawn (and they shouldn't). The only thing I know that needs fixing is planets, both as a bug (the horrible lag it causes) and player incentive (there's not much of a reason to go to them besides new players)

 

[Keptick]

Got the thread moved back here (many thanks for DukeofRealms ) it was getting buried in all the not so new suggestions.

 

[Keptick]

Faction interaction and PvP combat is practically inexistent at the moment. I don't care what it is, but something NEEDS to be done.

The game is really being hurt right now.

 

[QuantumAnomaly]

I do agree on your points about planets and resource mining, and your most recent comment notes one of the biggest issues, which though addressed in your original topic holds a lot to be expanded on, which is FACTION INTERACTION.

I think if you took take the idea of automated mining, and apply it to other things that a faction can do, there are many ways to help increase the likehood of faction alliances/war. Here's just a few ideas (keep in mind % values are really rough and do not involve any calculations, they're just there for you to get an idea of the concept):

Station Bonuses: Either a flat bonus or something that can be set on the faction cube of a space station, allowing for combat bonus, trade bonus, or construction bonus. Giving something like a 20% boost to one thing (trade bonus might give you bonus credits from sold items, combat bonus increases damage/shields, construction bonus effects factories etc).

Only one station of each type can be used to claim the bonus from any system, meaning you can have 6 stations in a system, but only 1 of each with the bonuses described above.

Your faction gains some kind of an overall boost for all members/systems/bases (even ones without a specialty) to one of these stats based on the highest number of stations with that bonus they own factionwide. This gives you warriror factions, who want to own a lot of combat starbases, trade factions that want trade bases, and industrial factions that want more factory bases. If a faction has 3 combat bases and wants to be a trade faction, they have to either build 4 trade stations or convert their 3 combat ones. Factions can only change their "demeanor" once per week, so even if the above faction type built the 4 trade bases, it would be a week before they would claim the trade faction bonus. Since you can only claim each bonus once per system regardless of the number of bases you have, this further increases spreading.

Loss of a station hurts not just faction points, but decreases the bonuses of any stations in adjacent systems by 75% (since their close neighbors are under attack, workers are trying to get out of dodge so to speak).

Any enemy destroyed in a faction sector gives bonuses (to help keep defending from being a moot point, since defense is harder than attack), Like bonus credits, bonus faction points, and a 50% BOOST to any station bonuses in that system for 24 hours so long as it isn't attacked again, as your minions rally under your leadership.

Ally bonuses and penalties: If you ally with someone, you get a 1% bonus to whatever stat your ally chose as their main stat, meaning a trade faction allied with 5 combat factions still gets a 5% bonus to combat in their systems from the frequent exposure to the war stories of their allies.

I dunno, this was all off the top of my head. Maybe someone can take it and run from here.

 

[aceface]

lag from dumbshits

the wording is just so perfect!!!

 

[Noc]

"Planet-goo" won't promote conflict, it will simply turn the game into haves and have-nots.

 

[Keptick]

"Planet-goo" won't promote conflict, it will simply turn the game into haves and have-nots.

Where did you get planet-goo from? . Please read the thread, not just look at it for 2 seconds before typing a generic reply.