am i blind or?.....Is the under fire shield recharge gone?

[Daro_Khan]

So i noticed that when shields get hit now there is no under-fire or reduced shields/sec anymore? Is this fully the case now?

Because if there is a shield recharge negative when under-fire It makes my Docked Shield supply beam idea Work. (over comes lower shield regen)

If there isn't no such negative bonus then its just better adding the same Docked supply beams total mass as just plan shield recharger and caps. on the ship and forget the whole docked supply thing.


Am i wrong?


If am right, the only use for this would be Combat actions to reinforce a focused allied ship shields. and rotate shields on whoever is taking the most damage, Like Eve online or any game that has a *healing* function/role.

ship that's big enough to have a effective enough shield supply beam to add its shield transfer strength to his allies shield recharge rate

Is......a massive force enlarger

 

[Gristle]

I believe with the armor update it was changed so that once shields are broken a period of 10 seconds with no damage has to occur before shields start to recharge.

 

[Winterhome]

Using a Shield Supply beam counts as that entity being under fire, so it also receives the recharge penalty of being under fire.

You start out with 5% shield recharge under fire at high shields, which becomes 10% recharge at very low shields. Shield recharge stops for a few seconds after shields are knocked down to 0, then starts up again, and it takes something like 60 seconds for shield recharge to go back up to "normal" rather than combat regen.

 

[Beld]

So i noticed that when shields get hit now there is no under-fire or reduced shields/sec anymore? Is this fully the case now?

Because if there is a shield recharge negative when under-fire It makes my Docked Shield supply beam idea Work. (over comes lower shield regen)

If there isn't no such negative bonus then its just better adding the same Docked supply beams total mass as just plan shield recharger and caps. on the ship and forget the whole docked supply thing.


Am i wrong?


If am right, the only use for this would be Combat actions to reinforce a focused allied ship shields. and rotate shields on whoever is taking the most damage, Like Eve online or any game that has a *healing* function/role.

ship that's big enough to have a effective enough shield supply beam to add its shield transfer strength to his allies shield recharge rate

Is......a massive force enlarger

When i started playing starmade again a few months ago I noticed my ship was getting full recharge while under fire, not that long ago it seemed to change back to 10% under fire and over the last couple of days its back to 100% under fire. Its all very confusing.

 

[Daro_Khan]

Beld
It very much is confusing. Becuase regen doesnt change at all no mater what % my shields are atm right now


Azereiah
The under-fire from supply beams is no more but back when the under fire was a thing, id have the logic setup to turn on and off the docked shield supply so if am getting shot and i want to boost my shields the underfire thing dont matter as much as the shield supply give me a buttload of extra shields it would be a way to overcome combat shield recharge issues. But out of combat you wouldnt use it so id just turn it off with logic.

 

[Winterhome]

Beld
It very much is confusing. Becuase regen doesnt change at all no mater what % my shields are atm right now


Azereiah
The under-fire from supply beams is no more but back when the under fire was a thing, id have the logic setup to turn on and off the docked shield supply so if am getting shot and i want to boost my shields the underfire thing dont matter as much as the shield supply give me a buttload of extra shields it would be a way to overcome combat shield recharge issues. But out of combat you wouldnt use it so id just turn it off with logic.

I mean the object *firing* the beam is counted as "under fire" >_>

 

[Mork2]

Most people don't bother with docked shield recharger with shield supply beams or drain.

As far as I'm aware while in "combat" your actual shield regen is between 10-5% of your normal out of "combat" shield regen rate.
A docked module that uses are shield supply beam or having a shield drain beam used against it counts as being in "combat" as well. So the docked shield module shield regen will be 10-5% while supplying shields to the main ship. As someone said above you get your normal regen when the module is considered out of combat. So for a shield regen module to regen shields at normal speed you would need it to not be supply shields for a while till it can regen at normal rate then transfer the shields to the main ship then pause again while you wait for the module to come out of combat and recharge its shields. Most people just don't bother, your better off usually just by adding more shield rechargers to the main ship. Since recharging is nerfed under combat most people just use more shields. Though with enough rechargers it is possible for the 10-5% effectiveness to make a difference but usually at that point you have a far larger ship than your opponent anyway.

With the docked railed entities being protected by the main ships shields while above 50% it ends up better by just increasing the main ship shields and rechargers, and then maybe some shields on the docked entities for when the main shield is under 50%.

I do fit a shield supply beam on my larger ships just encase there is something I want to keep alive though and if have the room for it.

 

[GRHayes]

So i noticed that when shields get hit now there is no under-fire or reduced shields/sec anymore? Is this fully the case now?

Because if there is a shield recharge negative when under-fire It makes my Docked Shield supply beam idea Work. (over comes lower shield regen)

If there isn't no such negative bonus then its just better adding the same Docked supply beams total mass as just plan shield recharger and caps. on the ship and forget the whole docked supply thing.


Am i wrong?


If am right, the only use for this would be Combat actions to reinforce a focused allied ship shields. and rotate shields on whoever is taking the most damage, Like Eve online or any game that has a *healing* function/role.

ship that's big enough to have a effective enough shield supply beam to add its shield transfer strength to his allies shield recharge rate

Is......a massive force enlarger

There is a reduced shield charge while under fire. Not sure about the 10 seconds after loosing shields sounds right though. I do know there is a 60 second period you have to go without receiving damage before shields resume normal charging.

Most people don't bother with docked shield recharger with shield supply beams or drain.

As far as I'm aware while in "combat" your actual shield regen is between 10-5% of your normal out of "combat" shield regen rate.
A docked module that uses are shield supply beam or having a shield drain beam used against it counts as being in "combat" as well. So the docked shield module shield regen will be 10-5% while supplying shields to the main ship. As someone said above you get your normal regen when the module is considered out of combat. So for a shield regen module to regen shields at normal speed you would need it to not be supply shields for a while till it can regen at normal rate then transfer the shields to the main ship then pause again while you wait for the module to come out of combat and recharge its shields. Most people just don't bother, your better off usually just by adding more shield rechargers to the main ship. Since recharging is nerfed under combat most people just use more shields. Though with enough rechargers it is possible for the 10-5% effectiveness to make a difference but usually at that point you have a far larger ship than your opponent anyway.

With the docked railed entities being protected by the main ships shields while above 50% it ends up better by just increasing the main ship shields and rechargers, and then maybe some shields on the docked entities for when the main shield is under 50%.

I do fit a shield supply beam on my larger ships just encase there is something I want to keep alive though and if have the room for it.

If your docked module is getting down like that you have it setup poorly.
You should have approx the same shields on it you can draw a second. The beams should be your shields /1500 x2. The times 2 is because a beam is two seconds long.

when you are set up this way the shields on your system will be charged a good bit of the time. Because your they nearly equal the beam draw on them. Thus you will get about 60% of it out without the 10x power drain and 1/10 speed. That is a hell of a lot better than normal shields

You can see my test setup on http://starmadedock.net/threads/app...ion-in-approx-70-200-cubes.21305/#post-236803

Feel free to download the module I am sure I can even improve on it. Because the module isn't fully in that 10x mode you don't need the power requirements for that either.

 

[Panpiper]

From the Wiki:
Upon taking a hit, the shield regeneration per second drops to
R = NR * 5.5 * (1 + S / C) / 20

This would clearly mean that indeed, shield recharge in combat is between 0-10% of listed recharge. This would make regular shield rechargers virtually useless in a fight, ultimately useful only for recharging a shield 'after' a fight. If this is true, then anyone adding any more than the amount of rechargers necessary to rebuild one's shields over the course of a few minutes, is likely making a huge mistake. It would also be the case however that if this is true, virtually everyone should see their shields dropping regularly and dropping fast, while in combat.

This has not been my experience.

I have had ships under substantial fire relative to their shield recharge, and rather than experiencing only a 10% of listed recharge rate, I am quite convinced that I am getting much more than that. The pirates on my server easily dish out a DPS of 20-40K each, and in a fight with several of them, a ship with three million shields and 300K regeneration (my medium sized battleminer), should see a fairly rapid shield depletion in a fight with multiples of such pirates (if the above formula is correct). I don't see that. My battleminer is able to maintain shields at 100% in such fights.

Moreover from a game design point of view, it makes little sense to me to create a system in which shields are so utterly nerfed as to render them virtually useless. If shields cannot effectively recharge in combat, one is 'vastly' better off simply using plenty of hull with pierce and punch defensive effect. A mechanic however that uses the above formula in which the trailing 20 was in fact a 2 and not a 20, that would make perfect sense.

I am 90% sure the posted formula is actually a typo. I strongly suspect the 20 is meant to be a 2.

I would dearly appreciate an official word on this.

Edit:
Reading from the blockBehaviorConfig.xml:
<ShieldRecoveryMultPerPercent>0.5</ShieldRecoveryMultPerPercent>
<!-- MAX % at high health - in direct recovery, the shield recharge will be multiplied by (1-((shield/max)*thisValue));-->

(Multiplying by .5 is the same thing as dividing by 2.)

It would seem to me to read that my above interpretation is indeed correct, the 20 is a typo and it should be a 2.

This would mean that one essentially gets one's full listed shield regeneration when one's shields are at or near maximum, and that as one's shields drop in strength, the shield regeneration drops proportionately, such that at 90% of shield strength, one would have 90% of one's shield regeneration capacity, at 50% of shield strength, 50% of shield regeneration capacity, at 10% of shield strength, 10% of regeneration capacity, etc.. This is how I would design it were I the designer, and I believe this is how the designers did in fact design it.

Shield recharge in combat is between 10-100% of listed recharge.

 

[Dvaren]

There is a reduced shield charge while under fire. Not sure about the 10 seconds after loosing shields sounds right though. I do know there is a 60 second period you have to go without receiving damage before shields resume normal charging.




If your docked module is getting down like that you have it setup poorly.
You should have approx the same shields on it you can draw a second. The beams should be your shields /1500 x2. The times 2 is because a beam is two seconds long.

when you are set up this way the shields on your system will be charged a good bit of the time. Because your they nearly equal the beam draw on them. Thus you will get about 60% of it out without the 10x power drain and 1/10 speed. That is a hell of a lot better than normal shields

You can see my test setup on http://starmadedock.net/threads/app...ion-in-approx-70-200-cubes.21305/#post-236803

Feel free to download the module I am sure I can even improve on it. Because the module isn't fully in that 10x mode you don't need the power requirements for that either.

I tested this myself this morning. Using a docked shield supply entity definitely does not work efficiently. The second the docked entity fires it's shield supply beam, it's shield recharge rates reverts to the reduced "in combat" rate. So although it may be able to SUPPLY shields to the master faster than the masters native under fire rechargers can, it will quickly run out of shields, therefore making it good for a very short term burst only.

Assuming this is not working as intended, this "bug" has been around a long time. I would guess that firing your own shield supply beam into another ship should not put your personal shield rechargers into combat recharge mode.....sigh....

 

[GRHayes]

I tested this myself this morning. Using a docked shield supply entity definitely does not work efficiently. The second the docked entity fires it's shield supply beam, it's shield recharge rates reverts to the reduced "in combat" rate. So although it may be able to SUPPLY shields to the master faster than the masters native under fire rechargers can, it will quickly run out of shields, therefore making it good for a very short term burst only.

Assuming this is not working as intended, this "bug" has been around a long time. I would guess that firing your own shield supply beam into another ship should not put your personal shield rechargers into combat recharge mode.....sigh....

I tested it last night at 3am I even posted images of the various tests I did. It is at the bottom of this page on the next page I list the way my setup of the module is designed. Yes, there is definitely a bunch of stuff you can screw up making the modules now.
http://starmadedock.net/threads/approx-9-million-power-generation-in-approx-70-200-cubes.21305/

I'll repost that part here.

A shield transfer beam transfers 1200 out of 1500. That is 80% not half. The problem is you are treating the beam as a 1 second beam. My guess is you didn't double the size of your beam after dividing the amount of shield recharge by 1500.

N = number of beams modules in a beam
R = the amount of recharge you can do in 1 second
C = Shield Capacity
N= R/1500*2
C = R/2 (minimal 14)
You also do not want more than 50% of your shield recharge rate in capacity on your module. The reason is simple the system updates shields from what I can tell on 0.5 second intervals. You also have a factor where any docked module gets shields supplied by the ship.
So what happens is while you are feeding shields to the ship you are also drawing from it. Thus if you reduce to the minimal amount which can be resupplied in the time you eliminate that backwards drain from the ship to the module.

My timers use BTTTTnot BTTTTnot then loops back. Buttons drive the beam. The beam is precisely 2 seconds long. If you go to 2.5 you loose 25% of your efficiency.

 

[Daro_Khan]

Thanks guys. thought my threads where dead. But The simple thing is this

IF shields have less recharge under fire = dock shield Transfers = good

IF shields dont have less recharge under fire= dock shield transfer useless better just add more blocks.

The reason why i started this thread was because your under-combat recharge use to be displayed but its not now. I think i had some dev or mods confirm the recharge under fire. but ....The wiki needs to be updated

Link to the other thread on what i said there
http://starmadedock.net/threads/how-to-properly-build-a-docking-shield-module.21411/#post-237606

 

[Mork2]

Well at the moment the dock shield transfers if it is in operation it to is suffering the under fire penalty. I have tested this bit. While the main ship is under fire and the shield transfer module is transferring shields both it and the main ship is considered under fire for both of their shield regen rates.

 

[Dvaren]

Thanks guys. thought my threads where dead. But The simple thing is this

IF shields have less recharge under fire = dock shield Transfers = good

IF shields dont have less recharge under fire= dock shield transfer useless better just add more blocks.

The reason why i started this thread was because your under-combat recharge use to be displayed but its not now. I think i had some dev or mods confirm the recharge under fire. but ....The wiki needs to be updated

I've been researching and testing this exclusively for days (and posting about it, lol)....so permit me to show you what I've learned in a nutshell:

Shield recharging definitely reverts to between 5% and 10% when the ship/station is being fired upon or when it fires a shield supply beam. This was testing using 100,053? shields, completely empty and in various stages of full, and 1001 recharging capacity. The recharge rate went from 5% to 10% and then after about a minute, 100%. So what I witnessed was nearly exactly 50 per second recharging.... then 100 per second.... then 1000. Tested with a non factioned, non slaved/effected single cannon on a 8 second delayed logic clock (to keep the shields under minimal fire).

Docked shield supplies DO serve a purpose but not the one that everyone desires (they will never act as an entity that will MAINTAIN a higher rate of recharge). What they ARE good for is a fast draining shield battery that will provide monstrous recharge rates under fire until the docked entities shields capacitors run dry. At that point they will provide 80% of the 5%/10% shields recharge rate that they have been reduced to from firing their supply beam. Whether or not this proves useful in combat is debatable, lol

 

[Daro_Khan]

wait ..your saying the docked shield reactor goes into under fire itself? when it shoots its beam?


That means building recharges to my supply amount wont mean anything :/ as id need huge amounts

 

[Dvaren]

wait ..your saying the docked shield reactor goes into under fire itself? when it shoots its beam?


That means building recharges to my supply amount wont mean anything :/ as id need huge amounts

Yes Daro. This is one of the aspects I spent much time on. The second the docked reactor fires that supply beam, it's own rechargers enter the reduced state. At that point, that same number of rechargers would be just as well placed on the mothership as the recharge rate would be the same....better in fact....as you lose 20% during the transfer.

Sigh =)

 

[Daro_Khan]

lee sigh indeed

 

[Gristle]

So you build a "shield battery" that is only capacitors which is recharged by a 3rd entity that has no shield blocks at all, and draws the shield energy from the main ship. The battery would be charged while the ship is not in combat. This battery could then be activated in combat when shields start to become low to boost the main ships shields.

I actually like this, actual ship system that aren't a single block.

 

[Panpiper]

I really don't understand this line of thinking. You are still carrying the weight of the capacitors, etc.. Why not just put the capacitors on the ship proper and have those shields present already without all the acrobatics?

 

[Tunk]

Shield capacity per block decreases with block count.
At high block counts that can result in millions of additional shield cap just by splitting them into separate entities.