[Discussion] Tired of hearing "soon"? Thoughts on the Q&A

    therimmer96

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    Neon_42

    I do not generalize the community. The problem is rather, that different groups have a different focus. When I do bug-fixes, some complain that there are no new features, when I do features, people complain, that bugs aren't fixed yet. Do i do core-work, both groups complain ^^
    Perhaps hiring more people to do code? Then you could actually get more work done, and less people would moan. its simple. instead of getting people to make a new site with no new features or changes of any value, get some help. there are plenty of people who would help for free in this community, i know gravypod has offered several times already
     
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    I've been hanging around the starmade community for a bit. Testing the waters so to speak, seeing if I can get into another voxel game. Immediately when I started up this game I could see its potential. I can easily see this becoming the next large scale voxel game. I just have to say, Schema, well freaking done. A+. Thank you for making this game.

    This thread boils down to one simple problem:

    Neon_42

    I do not generalize the community. The problem is rather, that different groups have a different focus. When I do bug-fixes, some complain that there are no new features, when I do features, people complain, that bugs aren't fixed yet. Do i do core-work, both groups complain ^^
    Whilst I understand not having people help because of hiring costs, why not allow those who are willing do help out for free do so? There are so many people who just want to help. Just to help fix the bugs. Ignore the people who want to add new stuff to the game, it's your game, it's your choice. Just allow people to take some of the load off your back.
     
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    I think the problem comes from you have to do things like legal agreements and those can be a problem, I would imagine moreso since many of us I don't believe is in Schema's home country. They might have laws that make that sort of thing more difficult.
     

    DukeofRealms

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    Perhaps hiring more people to do code? Then you could actually get more work done, and less people would moan. its simple. instead of getting people to make a new site with no new features or changes of any value, get some help. there are plenty of people who would help for free in this community, i know gravypod has offered several times already
    Who said people on the site weren't doing work for free?
     
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    therimmer96

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    but then the game will be ruined
    what are you on about? we are saying schema asking for help with the code. not to open the source or anything, just get help. Are you saying that this will ruin the game? How? why?
     
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    The server-side code is probably intricate enough that outsourcing it would be a bad idea.
    However, the client code (with the UI in it) would probably benefit from being worked on by more people especially if they play the game more often than Schema himself does, and have more experience of what the new UI could benefit from.
     
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    instead of getting people to make a new site with no new features or changes of any value, get some help. there are plenty of people who would help for free in this community, i know gravypod has offered several times already
    The site may not have any "new" features but it has improved greatly over the old site. Just posting is more fluid. The old site had a really weird editor, you could not copy and paste directly, you could not use your own spell checker, you could not use BB code. You were not even linked to your posts, finding things you or others have posted was a pain, and viewing new content was clumsy at best.

    The Ship catalog system now lets us track ships to user, like a screenshot a somebody posts, now you can find the ship and any other they created. We can also update newer versions of the ships and it actually has the ability to write info with the ships when you upload instead of tracking the file down and being first to comment on it. Ratings now have accountability to them, you have to explain why you gave the ship a rating so no longer can people troll the upload section and 1 start every file that got uploaded, no longer can authors 5 start their ships to boost ratings. It's not a perfect system because some people still abuse it and rate for things that have nothing to do with the ship, others just rate 5 because of fandom and obviously are not actually testing ships, and generally not many people seem to rate at all. It's not a perfect system but it is a lot better than the previous site.

    Additionally uploads have been expanded to include skins, mods, texture packs, and space stations.
     
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    therimmer96

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    The server-side code is probably intricate enough that outsourcing it would be a bad idea.
    However, the client code (with the UI in it) would probably benefit from being worked on by more people especially if they play the game more often than Schema himself does, and have more experience of what the new UI could benefit from.
    We are not saying open the code to everybody, no way. that would be bad. we are saying that schema should get more coders on the schine team, like how kupu and Omni are on the team. I am sure that people would love to help out if approached by schema, not just having their way with code on GitHub.
     
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    The site may not have any "new" features but it has improved greatly over the old site. Just posting is more fluid. The old site had a really weird editor, you could not copy and paste directly, you could not use your own spell checker, you could not use BB code. You were not even linked to your posts, finding things you or others have posted was a pain, and viewing new content was clumsy at best.

    The Ship catalog system now lets us track ships to user, like a screenshot a somebody posts, now you can find the ship and any other they created. We can also update newer versions of the ships and it actually has the ability to write info with the ships when you upload instead of tracking the file down and being first to comment on it. Ratings now have accountability to them, you have to explain why you gave the ship a rating so no longer can people troll the upload section and 1 start every file that got uploaded, no longer can authors 5 start their ships to boost ratings. It's not a perfect system because some people still abuse it and rate for things that have nothing to do with the ship, others just rate 5 because of fandom and obviously are not actually testing ships, and generally not many people seem to rate at all. It's not a perfect system but it is a lot better than the previous site.

    Additionally uploads have been expanded to include skins, mods, texture packs, and space stations.
    I don't understand how anyone can be unsatisfied with this site. I check this site like it is my facebook.
     
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    It is Schema's baby and we respect how much work he is doing, but the community dying due to the lack of completion. Which is a real shame, because this game has so much potential. He just needs some help to get things running. I'm not talking about the website, forget that. Just the game itself. The bugs just need to be squashed so we can enjoy it. Which can obviously not be done at the same time as addition of new content. So, why not allow the community to help squash them?

    We just want to help make this game live up to it's potential.
     
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    It is Schema's baby and we respect how much work he is doing, but the community dying due to the lack of completion. Which is a real shame, because this game has so much potential. He just needs some help to get things running. I'm not talking about the website, forget that. Just the game itself. The bugs just need to be squashed so we can enjoy it. Which can obviously not be done at the same time as addition of new content. So, why not allow the community to help squash them?

    We just want to help make this game live up to it's potential.
    Thing is, even if you get the community to help with bug-fixing through coding, who grants for them to not exploit such trust and include malicious code?
    A community-driven bug-fixing effort would end up taking away more time than things are currently, because you need to check if the "fix" works as it advertises and doesn't exploit other issues.

    Schema's doing a perfect job, and i don't think i'll often see again such a great effort concentrated into a single project.
     
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    It is Schema's baby
    Weird choice of words.

    So, why not allow the community to help squash them?
    We always send in bug reports.

    Other than that, you - along with everyone for the past few pages - are just saying the same thing over and over;

    "Schema's doing his best, the community is doing it part, etc. etc."
    "We all understand the undertakings of making a game with minimal assistance. etc. etc."

    I'll sound cynical and would like to repeat the entire thread's monologue but I'm pretty sure I don't have enough knowledge and interaction with schema - over the internet and IRL - to be making terse remarks about how well or terrible he handles situations, and I'm pretty sure neither do most of you.

    So I'll cut the; "we're here to help, we understand your pain" posts here and take this moment to thank Schema for this game. I grew fond of it the first time I played it. I looked forward to building ships and stations after school, making mock battles and such. Right now I'm glad a game like StarMade exists. So thanks, Schema.
     
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    Perhaps hiring more people to do code? Then you could actually get more work done, and less people would moan. its simple. instead of getting people to make a new site with no new features or changes of any value, get some help. there are plenty of people who would help for free in this community, i know gravypod has offered several times already
    I would be quite happy to help in any way I could just as many others from the community.
     
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    The server-side code is probably intricate enough that outsourcing it would be a bad idea.
    However, the client code (with the UI in it) would probably benefit from being worked on by more people especially if they play the game more often than Schema himself does, and have more experience of what the new UI could benefit from.
    To say that something may be "too" intricate to collaborate on is a very unsupported point. It has been quoted in many places that the code youtube uses to find search results is over 1 million lines long, yet new employees still work on it. Collaboration on something only helps and improves the teems ability to finish tasks at hand.
     

    therimmer96

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    Thing is, even if you get the community to help with bug-fixing through coding, who grants for them to not exploit such trust and include malicious code?
    A community-driven bug-fixing effort would end up taking away more time than things are currently, because you need to check if the "fix" works as it advertises and doesn't exploit other issues.

    Schema's doing a perfect job, and i don't think i'll often see again such a great effort concentrated into a single project.
    No, because all we are asking for is one, maybe 2 people to help out. We are not demanding a particular person, or that everyone gets access. The malicious code issue wouldn't happen as long as schema chooses a person who has shown a long and strong support for the game, some one who he knows won't mess around. All we want is schema to get help. Help he deserves and needs
     

    Deadlis

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    Thing is, even if you get the community to help with bug-fixing through coding, who grants for them to not exploit such trust and include malicious code?
    A community-driven bug-fixing effort would end up taking away more time than things are currently, because you need to check if the "fix" works as it advertises and doesn't exploit other issues.
    That is not what they meant at all. Nobody was suggesting making the code open source. The idea was that people from the community who showed genuine interest and skill could be looked into, kind of like how kupu joined. An open source game would crumble to dust within a day.

    Schema's doing a perfect job, and i don't think i'll often see again such a great effort concentrated into a single project.
    Oh boy... I'm just going to gloss over that because I really don't feel like going down that road. I will just say that I have the utmost respect for Schema, and don't think that anybody could be better suited to the task of making the game than Schema is, but the 10 hours a day every day is a tad excessive. That kind of constant work, even on something that you love, just becomes more and more degrading after time. I honestly don't know how he's managed to last this long without breaks already, so kudos to him for the most rock solid will I have ever seen. Both Schema and the game would benefit tremendously from the addition of even just one more person to help with the code in a small sense. Like maybe just bug fixes or something minor at first, until he has a chance to trust them more and help shape what they do with their code. Just a suggestion.

    The point of the OP was that the community is slowly bleeding away most of its playerbase because of the state of the current game, which is a symptom of a game in early alpha. The community has grown far too big for just one person to be working on the game, as it makes it impossible for that single person to be able to create enough stable content fast enough to keep most of the fans of the game fed.

    This thread was only created because people obviously care about the future of this game that has so much potential, and I feel that in its current state, the game isn't doing very well at staying afloat. Hopefully, like Schema said, once the core engine and basic game mechanics are done, it will be easier to add content and keep the community happy. I don't want to see this game die, but its bleeding people badly right now. Even most of the "regulars" have stopped playing.

    Taking a step off my soapbox, I'd like to end my rant on a good note. I look forward to seeing where this game is going in the future and I have no doubt that, if executed properly, Starmade could strike gold and become THE definitive space voxel game. Here's to the future!
     
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    I think we're getting too specific here.

    Two things need to be balanced
    1) The addition of new content to keep the community engaged in the game
    2) Bug fixes and general optimizations so that servers can run more smoothly

    Right now, the game and community have grown to the point where the hours that Schema puts in are simply not enough to appeal to both the player base and server managers at the rate each desires. As a result, the community in general has taken a hit recently in terms of activity and interest.

    I'm not here to criticize Schema's work. In fact, I think he has done an excellent job in his attempts to balance the two. However, surely even he can see that the work needed to maintain the interest of the community has grown past what he can provide alone, regardless of how many hours he dedicates to his work.

    In order to build the game, carry on the momentum of the community and satisfy the demands that come alongside that, something more needs to be done. I'm not talking about the absolute extremes of releasing source code or hiring paid staff. I'm sure there are plenty of people with coding experience that care about the game just as much as Schema, and would jump at the chance to be part of a small group of people providing assistance or alternative solutions to problems as required.

    This is just a suggestion that would help the issues at hand. I'm sure people have plenty of others.

    Something does need to be done, for StarMade's sake.