More methods of propulsion

[Viridis00]

Alright guys, I see your points. What I am not clear on is whether you all dislike my ideas of propulsion, or just dislike the idea of more methods of propulsion in general.

I think the thing is if we're going to have more propulsion methods they need to be significantly distinct from each other in some way in terms of mechanics or stats to justify putting them into the game. That's what I meant by "warp analog" since they're all basically that aside from the aforementioned Dimensional Shift which is a significantly different take on warp.

 

[Snk]

i just don't think we need more propulsion systems right now. the jump distance is configurable, as is the top speed.
Let's also not forget that we have warpgates.
Warpgates is the equivalent to fast travel, while jump drives are vehicles/riding animals and thrusters = walking.

This is not a valid point. We don't "need" anything. It's an improvement.

I think the thing is if we're going to have more propulsion methods they need to be significantly distinct from each other in some way in terms of mechanics or stats to justify putting them into the game. That's what I meant by "warp analog" since they're all basically that aside from the aforementioned Dimensional Shift which is a significantly different take on warp.

This suggestion's most important point isn't really the specifics I mentioned, it is mainly to promote more methods of propulsion. What kinds of things would you like in regards to propulsion?

 

[lazarus78]

This is not a valid point. We don't "need" anything. It's an improvement.

This suggestion's most important point isn't really the specifics I mentioned, it is mainly to promote more methods of propulsion. What kinds of things would you like in regards to propulsion?

An "improvement" that we don't need. Having multiple types of propulsion for the sake of multiple types of propulsion is bad design.

If you said something like a type of engine that is fast, but terrible at turning, and another that is slower, but great at turning, then that would be something. But even then, those attributes could be added to the existing engines.

In the end it would boil down to which on is cheaper to get. If they are both have equal difficulty in obtaining, then there is no reason to have on over the other, making it a redundancy.

 

[Viridis00]

This suggestion's most important point isn't really the specifics I mentioned, it is mainly to promote more methods of propulsion. What kinds of things would you like in regards to propulsion?

See

What about something slightly different in the form of more impulse engine types? Like Ion Engines with an exponential acceleration curve (slow to start, gains speed considerably as long as you hold down the directional keys), Solar Sails (acceleration curve as well since they work like that, but the closer to a star you are the less energy is tapped for your energy banks, need to be exposed to operate (makes sense and hey it needs some cons)), or some other kinds of technology.

 

[Snk]

Personally, I am fine with any sort of new engine. I felt I balanced out the ones in the OP pretty well, but eh. I thought the folding space time was especially good. It's easy and cheap, but you can only move forward or back and maneuver just a little, and most everything in front of you gets into your radar range.

 

[NuclearFun]

If you want something like solar sail propulsion just build something that looks like a solar sail, hide your engine blocks somewhere and say your ship uses solar sale propulsion... just use your imagination (or just look into the community content section).
It works similar with your other suggestions, if you want a special kind of propulsion just make it look like and RP it.

 

[Snk]

If you want something like solar sail propulsion just build something that looks like a solar sail, hide your engine blocks somewhere and say your ship uses solar sale propulsion... just use your imagination (or just look into the community content section).
It works similar with your other suggestions, if you want a special kind of propulsion just make it look like and RP it.

I don't want to roleplay, though. I can roleplay any time I wish. Anyone can roleplay anything. Using this logic, Schema should not release any more updates because we can roleplay everything. That isn't a valid point.

 

[CaptainTaz]

I for one, think our ID spaces should be saved for something else, like tractor beams, minelayers, new weapons, new decoration blocks, things with something new to add to the table.

 

[lazarus78]

I don't want to roleplay, though. I can roleplay any time I wish. Anyone can roleplay anything. Using this logic, Schema should not release any more updates because we can roleplay everything. That isn't a valid point.

That is taking it to the extreme, and a terrible point of argument.

The simple fact of the matter is your ideas added nothing to the game that isn't already achieved by the current systems, almost in their entirety. A decorative block holds more value as it allows an actual, visual customization that serves a purpose, given the majority of the game is about building chips. Warp gates and jump drives cover all out FTL needs, there is zero gain from having more.

As I've said several times, variety for the SAKE of variety , is bad design. A variety of various decorative blocks serves a purpose. A variety of hull colors serves a purpose. A variety of weapon types serves a purpose. A variety of engines that all do the same thing the game already has, that does NOT serve a purpose.

If you think that they do serve a practical purpose, aside from simple "variety", then please, do tell.

 

[NuclearFun]

I don't want to roleplay, though. I can roleplay any time I wish. Anyone can roleplay anything. Using this logic, Schema should not release any more updates because we can roleplay everything. That isn't a valid point.

I like Starmade because of the creative freedom it provides, new system blocks that have to be placed in special order/place bringing problems like redundancy, balance and very probably bugs would only deter from that.
Yes to propulsion systems that would bring something new to the game (the promised hyperdrive systems for capital ships or if fuel ever becomes a thing) but your suggestions would be best placed in mods.

 

[Snk]

It doesn't provide just variety, though. It provides an opportunity for more tactical situations. Like for example, you know the enemy faction has a large amount of the type of material that makes Atomizers, so you build your stations with repeating scanner to detect them. Or you know they use dimension shift, so you deploy fleets of drones around a station. You capture an enemy ship using the FTL engines in order to find out where the singularity is. See what I mean? Aside from just being damn cool, there is a lot of stuff you could do.

Also, it's easier to have multiple players aboard a ship with this. Have you tried traveling as a passenger lately? Everything turns blue and you fall out of the ship, only to reappear on the ship several seconds later.

 

[lazarus78]

It doesn't provide just variety, though. It provides an opportunity for more tactical situations. Like for example, you know the enemy faction has a large amount of the type of material that makes Atomizers, so you build your stations with repeating scanner to detect them. Or you know they use dimension shift, so you deploy fleets of drones around a station. You capture an enemy ship using the FTL engines in order to find out where the singularity is. See what I mean? Aside from just being damn cool, there is a lot of stuff you could do.

Also, it's easier to have multiple players aboard a ship with this. Have you tried traveling as a passenger lately? Everything turns blue and you fall out of the ship, only to reappear on the ship several seconds later.

That is just trying to create a need that isn't there to justify your suggestion. Without your suggestion, those reasons would never come up. There is no void in game play to be filled here.

If we only had gray hulls and someone suggested more colors. That fills a void. It diversifies ship appearances. If we only had AMCs, a suggestion for more weapon types fills a void. It diversifies combat. These suggestions for engines does not fill a void and it does not diversify movement because the existing engines already do, in effect, the things you suggested.

 

[Snk]

More methods of propulsion means more aesthetics and mechanics. It fills a void in that it creates greater ship diversity. It is a new aesthetic and new game mechanic. More hull and more colors hardly do anything for the game. What we need is more mechanics. Not necessarily the types of drives I suggested, but something else that would create an engineering challenge and add meaningful mechanics to the game.

Not everything is created to fill a void. I fail to see why you think that every update in the game must correct a game mechanic or add a new one that you think the game is lacking. It's an argument mainly based off of personal preference.

 

[lazarus78]

More methods of propulsion means more aesthetics and mechanics. It fills a void in that it creates greater ship diversity. It is a new aesthetic and new game mechanic. More hull and more colors hardly do anything for the game. What we need is more mechanics. Not necessarily the types of drives I suggested, but something else that would create an engineering challenge and add meaningful mechanics to the game.

Not everything is created to fill a void. I fail to see why you think that every update in the game must correct a game mechanic or add a new one that you think the game is lacking. It's an argument mainly based off of personal preference.

More aesthetics? How so? Engines are ~99% covered by hull most of the time, so there's no aesthetic gain there.

Its a new, redundant, mechanic, yes.

The hull colors do much more for the game given it is about building ships. Redundant engine types, not so much. It would always boil down to the cheapest, easiest to acquire engine. Jump drives and warp gates cover short range and long range FTL.

If the devs want to add more engines, that is up to them. Their game after all. Out here in the suggestion forums, I am merely voicing my opinion to given ideas. In this case, I am against more engine types for the reason of (My opinion) they add nothing to the game and would only take away development time from more (My opinion) legitimate things.

Need I preface everything I post with "This is all my opinion"? Thought that was kinda assumed.

 

[Snk]

More aesthetics? How so? Engines are ~99% covered by hull most of the time, so there's no aesthetic gain there.

Structural requirements - for example, the dimensional shift requires rings and the singularity requires a black hole in the interior of a ship. The folding space time engine works best with a dish at the bow of the ship.

The hull colors do much more for the game given it is about building ships. Redundant engine types, not so much. It would always boil down to the cheapest, easiest to acquire engine. Jump drives and warp gates cover short range and long range FTL.

Many of your points were covered in the original post. I'm reading over what you have stated, and I'm kind of frustrated because you seem to have disregarded what I posted.

If you said something like a type of engine that is fast, but terrible at turning, and another that is slower, but great at turning, then that would be something. But even then, those attributes could be added to the existing engines.

Usage: Activate the module, ship automatically tuns towards waypoint. Forward and back is the only movement. Can only work with waypoint input. Once a waypoint is input and the computer activated, you see the distance decrease.

These suggestions for engines does not fill a void and it does not diversify movement because the existing engines already do, in effect, the things you suggested.

The simple fact of the matter is your ideas added nothing to the game that isn't already achieved by the current systems, almost in their entirety.

I'm not even sure how to respond to these, because nearly everything in the OP cannot be done at the moment.

More aesthetics? How so? Engines are ~99% covered by hull most of the time, so there's no aesthetic gain there.

1. Fish scales
Blocks: One
Explanation: An organic propulsion method. The "scales" reflect sunlight at such a rate your ship can move quickly. You need to feed it for it to work. It can repair itself - the more you feed, the more it repairs itself.

Construction: Simply black the fish scale block on the parts of your ship you want scales on.

Usage: Thrust depends on distance from star, and area of ship covered.

Aesthetics: Hundreds of scales moving back and forth.

In the end it would boil down to which on is cheaper to get. If they are both have equal difficulty in obtaining, then there is no reason to have on over the other, making it a redundancy.

Explanation: Engines that make your ship go really fast. It is powered by a singularity. It is cheap, effective, easy to craft, but complex and hard to build. Not safe at all.

To construct: First, you must place down quantum magnets. When arranged so that there are some blocks facing inwards, (I.E, a sphere. Thing of the magnetic constraints from Star Trek that contain the Warp core) they create a singularity, but you need a certain amount of power to get the singularity up. The FTL engines are powered by matter moving at incredibly fast speeds towards the singularity, so anyone near it dies pretty quick. Once that happens, you need to place FTL engines and a computer. The best way to build it would be long, and rectangular. The z axis would need to be longer than the X or Y axis for it it work. (This would be config editable.) The last two blocks would be Relativity controlers, which need to be placed in dish like structures facing opposite ends. In order to match up the time flowing outside the ship and inside the ship, they first reverse the theory of relativity but making time flow faster inside the ship, and the next second outside the ship. By doing this, time flows the same outside the ship and inside the ship.

Speed: Depends on the size of singularity and amount of engines, but more efficient than other methods of travel. About 10 sectors every 45 seconds.

Engine 1 is functionally the same as engine 2. So why have both? Its redundant.

I....what? Please re-read that section of the post. They are obviously not the same.

You seem to believe the game is 100% based off of shipbuilding. It is not, and the fact that you believe that irks me. It is a sandbox, where you should be able to do anything you want, however you want - explore, mine, fight, and build ships. How each person does those things should be fully customization, and thus, this thread. For example, if you were shipping valuable goods from one place to another, you'd pick a ship that has the Atomizer because it is the safest but slowest method of traveling. For exploring, you'd pick the FTL because your visibility is not limited. A warship might pick the space time fold, because it can take a lot of fire from oncoming stations. The idea that there is nothing else to do but build ships is close minded and short sighted, and plain boring. I've built ~6 ships in my year and a half of playing Star Made, spending most of my time doing other things, namely trading. Try playing on a roleplay server.

This game is not a ship editor. If you want to do that, I suggest you download a free 3D modeling software. Here is a good place to get one.

 

[CyberTao]

More aesthetics? How so?

The different blocks would have different textures, and some people use system blocks as Decor already. I think what he was pointing to, was the various 'effects', like the shrinking or the glowing and such.

Snk, the ideas are interesting but unneeded. At the end of the day, once you strip it all down to the core, all of these do exactly the same, with the only difference being in how they look, or how they can be countered.

Starmade has 3 types of FTL; Jump Drive, Warp Gate and Hyperdrive (unimplemented, but planned as part of the capital ship system). Warpgates are stationary, hyperdrive removes ability to move, and Jumpdrive will get an interdiction system or something someday. Each one is used differently, and has a different range.

The problem with your suggested idea, is that you can already put jumpdrives onto your ship, build an aesthetic ring, and then RP that the ring does something. Could even put the Jump modules into the ring so that you lose ability to jump if the ring gets too badly damaged. For the blackhole one, surround the computer in Nox crystal and put it in the center of the array. It's the same mechanic, just dressed up different each time.

I'm not sure if you can yet, but eventually you will be able to make a block identical to an existing one (like reactor or Jump) and apply a new set of values to it, mixed with something from another block mayhaps.

Take solar sails. I know warp gates need an enclosed space in order to work, and if it can count the number of "blocks enclosed", you can take that number, turn it into a ThrustTotalMul value, and make a "thruster" system from that. A complete mish-mash of 2 existing systems, and is quite different than what we have now.

Another idea might be to take power reactor's Grouping+Flat rate formula, add in some of Overdrive's ability to increase max speed, and mix them into a new form of Jump that requires a bit more planning. I dunno. "How it works" is more important than what it looks like.

 

[Snk]

The different blocks would have different textures, and some people use system blocks as Decor already. I think what he was pointing to, was the various 'effects', like the shrinking or the glowing and such.

Snk, the ideas are interesting but unneeded. At the end of the day, once you strip it all down to the core, all of these do exactly the same, with the only difference being in how they look, or how they can be countered.

Starmade has 3 types of FTL; Jump Drive, Warp Gate and Hyperdrive (unimplemented, but planned as part of the capital ship system). Warpgates are stationary, hyperdrive removes ability to move, and Jumpdrive will get an interdiction system or something someday. Each one is used differently, and has a different range.

The problem with your suggested idea, is that you can already put jumpdrives onto your ship, build an aesthetic ring, and then RP that the ring does something. Could even put the Jump modules into the ring so that you lose ability to jump if the ring gets too badly damaged. For the blackhole one, surround the computer in Nox crystal and put it in the center of the array. It's the same mechanic, just dressed up different each time.

I'm not sure if you can yet, but eventually you will be able to make a block identical to an existing one (like reactor or Jump) and apply a new set of values to it, mixed with something from another block mayhaps.

Take solar sails. I know warp gates need an enclosed space in order to work, and if it can count the number of "blocks enclosed", you can take that number, turn it into a ThrustTotalMul value, and make a "thruster" system from that. A complete mish-mash of 2 existing systems, and is quite different than what we have now.

Another idea might be to take power reactor's Grouping+Flat rate formula, add in some of Overdrive's ability to increase max speed, and mix them into a new form of Jump that requires a bit more planning. I dunno. "How it works" is more important than what it looks like.

Thanks for the reasonable reply, I appreciate it. I think we can agree to disagree. It is up to the developers at this point.