Shields and turrets

[CyberTao]

I guess I could support a limited sharing. Would keep PD safe and useful and make small ships wait until the shields are down to move in to harass.
How does a partial share work? A percent of damage being transferred to the main ship's shields?

 

[godmars]

No thanks. Make it an option on config or something but all people will do is use the extra space freed up from the main weapons to stuff shield blocks into

 

[Crusade]

I've given some thought to this. I'd like to suggest to ability to link both types of shield blocks to docks, both turret and static. The linked blocks no longer count towards the motherships shield count, and instead provide shields to the entity that is docked in the zone that has the shield blocks linked to it.

This means that the turret doesn't get an instant boost simply from the mothership shields.
It also means the ship designer can choose either shields on the turret, or on the mothership, leading to more effective turrets, and useful protection for fighters and drones while they are docked, without being too OP, since you have to sacrifice mothership mass/space to gain the extra protection.

 

[Lecic]

I've given some thought to this. I'd like to suggest to ability to link both types of shield blocks to docks, both turret and static. The linked blocks no longer count towards the motherships shield count, and instead provide shields to the entity that is docked in the zone that has the shield blocks linked to it.

This means that the turret doesn't get an instant boost simply from the mothership shields.
It also means the ship designer can choose either shields on the turret, or on the mothership, leading to more effective turrets, and useful protection for fighters and drones while they are docked, without being too OP, since you have to sacrifice mothership mass/space to gain the extra protection.

This is actually a really good idea.

 

[Snk]

Fun fact: Shields project over trigger areas. You'd need to place them far enough away from the ship's turrets, though.

 

[Mered4]

This is pretty simple, folks.

Turrets should be included as a part of the ship design. You are fighting the ship, after all, not twenty small ships that happen to be attached to this larger one. Which is how it feels right now, and (technically) how it actually is.

I fully support turrets inheriting the motherships shields - but on one condition. The shields have to be completely shared - if a turret takes a hit, the mothership eats the damage too. Tbh, it might even be better by simply transferring all damage from the turrets to the mothership.

This would also require turrets to shut down upon ship death, but that's another matter entirely.

 

[Lecic]

Fun fact: Shields project over trigger areas. You'd need to place them far enough away from the ship's turrets, though.

It's not like this is new. People had been doing this with open plexdoors for, quite literally, years.

Turrets can't shoot through blocks of the thing they're docked to anymore. I believe this includes open plexdoors/area triggers.

 

[Mered4]

It's not like this is new. People had been doing this with open plexdoors for, quite literally, years.

Turrets can't shoot through blocks of the thing they're docked to anymore. I believe this includes open plexdoors/area triggers.

Invisible blocks do not absorb projectiles or beams, FYI. Open plex doors are not a viable shield.

 

[lazarus78]

I've given some thought to this. I'd like to suggest to ability to link both types of shield blocks to docks, both turret and static. The linked blocks no longer count towards the motherships shield count, and instead provide shields to the entity that is docked in the zone that has the shield blocks linked to it.

This means that the turret doesn't get an instant boost simply from the mothership shields.
It also means the ship designer can choose either shields on the turret, or on the mothership, leading to more effective turrets, and useful protection for fighters and drones while they are docked, without being too OP, since you have to sacrifice mothership mass/space to gain the extra protection.

The game requires to much on linking things together, IMO.

Link this to that, and that to this, then these to those, and this tho these... Its a nice mechanic, but cmon... its gone too far. You have to spend 90% of your time working out optimizations of linked systems rather than playing the actual game and making a ship to fly around in space.

I just want to make myself a ship and not have to spend most of my time worrying about if I did something the in the most optimal way or not. So with this idea here, I would have to ALSO worry about adding enough linked shields to my turrets. Yay.

 

[Crusade]

-snip-

You realise Shift + v links groups right? I spend about 2% of my building time actually linking things.

 

[Jake_Lancia]

link both types of shield blocks to docks, both turret and static. The linked blocks no longer count towards the motherships shield count, and instead provide shields to the entity that is docked in the zone that has the shield blocks linked to it.
-snip-

I fully support this idea. My teeny tiny point-defense and anti-fighter turrets need some loving guys!

 

[hzzzln]

You realise Shift + v links groups right? I spend about 2% of my building time actually linking things.

Holy crap, you are right. Why did I not know about this? How are you supposed to get this knowledge? You just made my life so much easier.

On topic: I think the way turret shielding works right now makes for an interesting gameplay mechanic: Big ships have weak points - their turrets. It makes small, agile and radar jammed fighters viable, because they can focus on a capital ships weak points. Imagine turrets were fully shielded by their mothership: combat would boil down to "throw everything we got at them!"

 

[Mered4]

Holy crap, you are right. Why did I not know about this? How are you supposed to get this knowledge? You just made my life so much easier.

On topic: I think the way turret shielding works right now makes for an interesting gameplay mechanic: Big ships have weak points - their turrets. It makes small, agile and radar jammed fighters viable, because they can focus on a capital ships weak points. Imagine turrets were fully shielded by their mothership: combat would boil down to "throw everything we got at them!"

It doesn't, though. The turrets still murder tiny fighters.

 

[jorgekorke]

Just wanted to say that I'm fiercely against that idea. Small ships are already outclassed and useless, and the only thing they can barely damage is the turrets. Bombers must be a thing on this game, and that mechanic would make such thing even more impossible.

Perhaps Crusade's idea could work well, but... yea, not sure.

 

[lazarus78]

You realise Shift + v links groups right? I spend about 2% of my building time actually linking things.

That... is immensely helpful... Wonder why this kind of thing isn't common knowledge...

But it doesn't really help my growing dislike for the ever increasing addition of "Link everything to victory!" direction the game seems to be headed in. I still feel its more about finding the most optimal placement for system blocks than it is about building ships.

 

[Mered4]

Just wanted to say that I'm fiercely against that idea. Small ships are already outclassed and useless, and the only thing they can barely damage is the turrets. Bombers must be a thing on this game, and that mechanic would make such thing even more impossible.

Perhaps Crusade's idea could work well, but... yea, not sure.

I feel you. I really understand where you are coming from here. Honestly, schema (or Calbiri) have yet to release some sort of dev blog/article that details their vision for combat going forward. Are we going to be like Fractured Space, where everyone flies around in a really cool medium-large vessel and small drones are used in swarms, or are we going to go the way of, say, EVE, where there are all types of ships from Frigates to Titans, with swarms of fighter-bombers to help diversify the classes?

Or are we going to go the way of Star Wars Battlefront, where nearly everyone is in a fighter and the capitals are just there as mobile hangar bays?

Or a mixture of these ideas?

Each of these directions involves many, many changes across the board, not just in one area. We could improve little things here and there by buffing armor or nerfing weapons or giving turrets their mothership's shields, but what we really need to do is look at the whole picture and figure out what Starmade is going to be. That way no one can fault schema and crew for not being crystal clear about what direction combat is headed.

 

[hzzzln]

It doesn't, though. The turrets still murder tiny fighters.

I always thought radar jammers render you completely invisible to all things AI controlled (BOBBY and pirates)?

While I did take damage in a fight with some pirates in SP with a radar jammed small fighter some days ago, it was nothing my shields could not handle, despite the fact that they probably don't even meet the criteria for the word "meager". Turned off the jammer for shits and giggles - almost instant death.

 

[Mered4]

I always thought radar jammers render you completely invisible to all things AI controlled (BOBBY and pirates)?

While I did take damage in a fight with some pirates in SP with a radar jammed small fighter some days ago, it was nothing my shields could not handle, despite the fact that they probably don't even meet the criteria for the word "meager". Turned off the jammer for shits and giggles - almost instant death.

The jammer only worsens the accuracy. In any fight where fighters are close enough to pick targets, the enemy turrets will demolish them. Swarmers, too.

And I'm not talking pirates, I'm talking well made player ships.

 

[CyberTao]

I feel you. I really understand where you are coming from here. Honestly, schema (or Calbiri) have yet to release some sort of dev blog/article that details their vision for combat going forward. Are we going to be like Fractured Space, where everyone flies around in a really cool medium-large vessel and small drones are used in swarms, or are we going to go the way of, say, EVE, where there are all types of ships from Frigates to Titans, with swarms of fighter-bombers to help diversify the classes?

Or are we going to go the way of Star Wars Battlefront, where nearly everyone is in a fighter and the capitals are just there as mobile hangar bays?

Or a mixture of these ideas?

Each of these directions involves many, many changes across the board, not just in one area. We could improve little things here and there by buffing armor or nerfing weapons or giving turrets their mothership's shields, but what we really need to do is look at the whole picture and figure out what Starmade is going to be. That way no one can fault schema and crew for not being crystal clear about what direction combat is headed.

To be honest, I expect them to try and aim for all of them, in the sense you could easily change the configs and switch between the styles. Some form of optional shield sharing should be available as an option, and I can't say for certain which servers would even use it. More diversity in server settings are good, to a degree. Some people will always want to play like X, while the game supports Y, so more options to make it play more like X would really befit it as a sandbox.

Everyone in a fighters with a large mobile hanger bay ship (Makes me think of the capital system) sounds like something I would quite like to try, and something a server could easily create given more config options to customize.

 

[Snk]

To be honest, I expect them to try and aim for all of them, in the sense you could easily change the configs and switch between the styles. Some form of optional shield sharing should be available as an option, and I can't say for certain which servers would even use it. More diversity in server settings are good, to a degree. Some people will always want to play like X, while the game supports Y, so more options to make it play more like X would really befit it as a sandbox.

Everyone in a fighters with a large mobile hanger bay ship (Makes me think of the capital system) sounds like something I would quite like to try, and something a server could easily create given more config options to customize.

A better design would be all of these things are fully viable, and only depends on the players preference.