Planetary Vehicles

    Planetary vehicles should be added to StarMade. Do you agree?

    • I strongly disagree. This is a bad idea and should not be pursued.

      Votes: 0 0.0%

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    We know the Universe update is coming, and with it will be improvements to planets, hopefully making them larger and more complex. If planets change (especially if they become larger), then we may need better tools for manipulating their structure. I propose a new basic element called a Vehicle Chassis.

    The Vehicle Chassis
    The Vehicle Chassis (VC) would implement much like a Ship Core in its placement, but upon creation it would be more than a single block. A basic VC would be a core and the minimum number of blocks necessary to produce a simple frame and wheels. The wheels of this entity would be able to navigate inclines (steps) in an environment with gravity. Further, because the VC is prefabricated, it would also be a convenient wrapper for any code necessary to navigate the interface between planet faces. (This assumes that the new Universe update planets will still use faces as we see them now. Whatever the method, a Vehicle Chassis could be adjusted deal with new rules regarding planets.)

    Controls, Movement, and Power
    Operation of a Vehicle Chassis would be slightly different from a space vessel. A-D controls left-right. W-S controls forward-backward. Q-E controls top speed, operating like a gear shift, with each notch indicating the desired limits of the speed threshold.
    0: Park
    1: 0.1 to 1.0 m/s
    2: 1.0 to 5.0 m/s
    3: 5.0 - 10.0 m/s
    These could be gear-ratio domains like a real automobile, or simply speed maximums. These values can be adjusted in response to testing to see what works best. Naturally, the mass of the vehicle would affect the workload of the power plant. This is effectively thrust and reactor power, so the existing reactor model could be used for power management. Heavier vehicles require more power to move. An analog to the Thruster module would be the Drive Shaft in terms of allocating reactor power for movement. Instead of thruster plumes, we would hear machine noises as the gears turn and the wheels grip the terrain. The only challenging new code required would be to handle the operation of wheels, namely turning and the wheel base, and to deal with bouncing as a consequence of the normal force between the planet surface and the vehicle. As a first order design, a single Vehicle Chassis would be available, providing only a single option of wheel base length and turning radius.

    The most important element to address here is the scale of power and movement between planetary action and space action. If planets become sufficiently large that the atmosphere is a larger volume of space, then all that is necessary is to determine planetary scale energies to be at least one magnitude less than whatever is required to achieve escape velocity. To this end, a completely different power module could be created for terrestrial vehicles that would produce power levels of 1 or 10, rather than 100, and all land vehicle systems would be scaled to match. This would make land vehicles decisively different internally.

    Vehicle Chassis Modules
    Salvage Modules could require an adjustment in the Logistics Chamber tree of the reactor in order to operate in a specific kind of atmosphere. A new Drilling Module could be created to make planetary mining feel more gritty and resolve the shortcomings of using salvage beams on a planet.

    Planetary Changes
    If planets had blocks that Salvage Modules could not break, then surface mining in a terrestrial vehicle would become even more interesting and necessary. Maybe there is a particular kind of rock that cannot be demolished by a salvage beam and must be drilled instead. Perhaps atmosphere scatters the salvage beam, preventing it from delivering sufficient power to the surface of the planet. Some atmospheres could even be volatile and ignite if exposed to salvage beams, requiring a drill rather than a beam. Drilling through different sorts of material could have varying power requirements, necessitating different reactor configurations or sizes.

    Terrestrial mining vehicles will probably dig tunnels that need to be mapped, so a reactor chamber option could help the operator plot a course back to its mining base, mark deposits for later collection, or mark other points of interest like an ancient alien structure. (This might be a Recon or Logistics function.)

    Construction Yards
    If subterranean operations become complex, or very deep within a planet, then counterparts to some space structures may be demanded. A planetary analog to the Shipyard would allow design and assembly of entities based on the Vehicle Chassis. The Shipyard blocks themselves could simply be used directly, having a different functionality when attached to a planetary structure rather than a space structure. All designs must start with a Vehicle Chassis, but otherwise the Shipyard functions identically.

    Treads
    Wheels wrapped inside a dedicated surface form a tread. They are usually employed where terrain is irregular or unpredictable and reliability in movement is more important than speed. (Although some modern armor with treads can achieve surprising speeds.) Without knowing the inner workings of StarMade, I have no idea if either wheels or treads may be easier to implement, but having both would offer more variety of style and could possibly be assigned strengths and weaknesses. (For example, wheels might allow faster movement, whereas treads allow climbing of steeper inclines {taller steps}.)

    Conclusion
    So that's my pitch. It's probably a bunch of work to do all this, but I think it would add so much to the game and make exploring planets a much more exciting adventure. For this initial presentation, I tried to keep the outline brief and to the point, address some basic concerns, and explore the most obvious elements, but any implementation of this could be short and simple like I have described (relying mostly on the existing infrastructure that describes ships) or could be as detailed and complex as ships but with a wholly different system and style, thus giving planetary action its own flavor and style. For all I know, the developers are already planning this. Please respond to the poll and comment!

    EDIT: Expanded conclusion.
     
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    You know,I posted an idea like that a year ago.And it had negative replies.
    Firstly:If the planets will be expanded it won’t be possible to make a planetary exploration.I don’t think they will be 1000 times or 10k times bigger than they are after Universe Update,maybe 10 times.So it would mean that vehicles will need to be slower than astronauts to make it more exciting...which won’t be exciting at all.
    Second:Vehicles are a wonderful things that could be added to Starmade for me.But according to replies I got it’s not a thing that fits to Starmade.
    Third:This would require a full reprogramming of the game which means no updates for months and more bugs after it.
    And here is my thread:https://starmadedock.net/threads/great-idea-for-starmade-vehicles.30437/
     
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    You know,I posted an idea like that a year ago.And it had negative replies.
    Well, it's good to know that it has been previously suggested. I did a search, but your thread did not hit. <shrug>

    Firstly:If the planets will be expanded it won’t be possible to make a planetary exploration.I don’t think they will be 1000 times or 10k times bigger than they are after Universe Update,maybe 10 times.So it would mean that vehicles will need to be slower than astronauts to make it more exciting...which won’t be exciting at all.
    I disagree. For vehicles to be useful, they would be at least astronaut speed or faster. But their most important feature would be to carry systems (like a Salvage array) with the power to mine more than an astronaut.

    Second:Vehicles are a wonderful things that could be added to Starmade for me.But according to replies I got it’s not a thing that fits to Starmade.
    According to my poll with this post, the majority is for vehicles, although the sample size is too small to draw any kind of statistical conclusion. At this point, I must assume that either most people haven't read the post, or they don't care, or they remember your suggestion and dismiss it as a rehash, or the population of this site is smaller than I thought.

    Third:This would require a full reprogramming of the game which means no updates for months and more bugs after it.
    This I cannot answer directly. I have experience in programming, so I do appreciate that specialized infrastructure can preclude certain pursuits. The fact of the matter is that astronauts land and walk around on planets with gravity just fine, so I think that vehicles are at least feasible. Simply because the game has no friction does not mean that wheels are impossible. (StarMade provides a normal force between objects that collide, but friction is a lateral force that prevents sliding.) I have some ideas about how to do this that I didn't include in my post because they were too theoretical and were not central to the concept. I think I can't say more without knowing something about StarMade's internal structure.

    In any case, thanks for at least letting me know that this is not a new suggestion. For what it's worth, my proposal was more detailed than yours, but in a year's time the game changed a bunch, so you and I had different perspectives. The Universe update will probably influence our perspectives further.
     
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    I would like to see more love put into vehicles for planetary use, but i think schine isnt interested in doing anything with them, at least not any time soon.

    But it would be a block based entity itself, like a ship, right? I dunno if theyd add in a new entity class.

    We do have the repulsers for hovercraft. Theyre just buggy as all hell.
     
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    I would like to see more love put into vehicles for planetary use, but i think schine isnt interested in doing anything with them, at least not any time soon.

    But it would be a block based entity itself, like a ship, right? I dunno if theyd add in a new entity class.

    We do have the repulsers for hovercraft. Theyre just buggy as all hell.
    As of v0.200.335, the Mobility Chamber provides an Anti Gravity feature that I have been using for planetary operations. It removes the need for me to ride the brake constantly so avoid landing and bouncing, but my major issue is that I'm not bound to the planet so I don't adopt its orientation. In the end, mining the planet is exactly like mining an asteroid, only bigger and with a molten nougat center. Planets are currently nothing more than bigger asteroids, but this will hopefully change soon.

    I did notice the existence of a Repulsor block, but I haven't played with it at all. At first take, I thought it was some kind of simple megathruster that I was supposed to use to launch docked vessels, like escape pods or topedoes. I guess I should go play with it and see what it does. I'd love to go read about it on the wiki, but that's been offline for almost a month now.
     
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    The repulser sorta works. It pushes the entity its on away from other objects. In gravity its only supposed to point downwards. It only works within 3m of the ground.

    The problem is, sometimes it overshoots how much force it should apply and launches the craft higher into the air. When it inevitably drops below the desired altitude again it overcorrects again, resulting it an object just bouncing up and down like a mad bull. Other than that, it doesnt play well with the center of mass. It seems to treat the core as the center of mass. If your core is at the front of the ship, then the repulsers will have the rear end 12m off the ground and the front resting on it. So you absolutely have to design your ship with the core at the center for it to work properly on repulsers.
     
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    This whole chassis idea just doesn't mesh with StarMade's building style. It'd make more sense to just have a special block you connect to the core that marks the ship as a surface vehicle.

    Wheels are a nightmare when collision damage exists; just look to Space Engineers for some absolute fun. Ultimately, you need incredibly flat surfaces and/or reliable anti-gravity.

    Planetary vehicles don't make terribly much sense when I can stripmine from orbit. I think they make the most sense if we start on planets and work our way up to space ships and if it's hard to stripmine from orbit (but resources underground would be plentiful and varied).

    Done right, there could be incentives to essentially make a planet your home and main source of resources until you have a mining fleet, but ultimately it's hard to mesh this with existing gameplay.