Power 2.1 doesn't suck.

[Valiant70]

Power 2.1, the new power with modified stabilizer mechanics, doesn't actually suck.

You know what did suck? Power 2.0. That was a mess. That's mostly fixed now. Go figure!
You know what still sucks? Integrity. That needs to be fixed. Cube-system meta isn't cool.
Those power stream things kind of suck, but not compared to the alternative, island meta. We need streams until someone gets a better idea for defeating island builds. If you have a brain, start wracking it now.

We're literally still waiting for the second half of this system update. We're sort of playing a hybrid old-new system right now. That sucks. The power itself? Not so much. Maybe Schema should have waited and released both at once. Oh, right... you don't have to play the latest version, so we're okay.

Chambers need work, but hey, you remember when we first got their predecessor, effects? Hoo boy, invincible shields and insane speed. Get out of here! This time around it's not even that bad! Some stuff just doesn't work right yet, and the mechanics are a little awkward. Maybe we can get the Code Cat to revisit the chamber mechanics after the weapon update.

Let's be honest. The first stable release of weapons is probably going to be a mess. That's how these things usually go down. At least it'll be the full (rough) picture. Once we have that, we can see where things stand.

The game doesn't suck. It's still a build-n-battle voxel space game with broader horizons on the way soon(tm). It doesn't rock yet, but you know. ~It's not like the game's halfway through a large transition or anything.~

 

[Crimson-Artist]

Schine did manage to fix my major problem with stabilizers so I'll give them that. However going forward its weapons 3.0 and the universe update is what concerns me. Considering the rather heavily damaged relationship they have with us now, will schine actively reconsider they're design decisions if we don't like them?

 

[Valiant70]

Schine did manage to fix my major problem with stabilizers so I'll give them that. However going forward its weapons 3.0 and the universe update is what concerns me. Considering the rather heavily damaged relationship they have with us now, will schine actively reconsider they're design decisions if we don't like them?

I mean, they fixed the stabilizers, so probably. Right now Schema's busy finishing what amounts to the other half of the power update, so I wouldn't expect much fixing/changing right now. Hopefully we do get a quick patch to turn off integrity's industrial vacuum cleaner, though.

 

[Dire Venom]

Wait.... they're not done implementing 2.0 yet .....
*Begins Wrechting*

Power is *ok* atm. With some work it could be solid. Please don't ruin it again devs XD

I always have faith they'll get there in the end, it's just how much time they'll waste.

 

[Maramonster]

*crosses fingers for integrity removal*

 

[Ithirahad]

I mean, they fixed the stabilizers, so probably.

Yes, but on the other hand, we only even got that after eight months of peaceful and not-so-peaceful protest. (Also, seems that with a bit of manipulation of the system, sticks are still the most efficient configuration for your turnrate and mass because for some reason Schine chose hard facing boundaries as the mechanic to use, but at least it's possible to use the other space on your ship if you want)

 

[Matt_Bradock]

Integrity was directly implemented to kill the spaghetti meta. Thank the guys who invented and abused it for that. The values however, need to be tweaked, so you can at least curve the systems a bit and not lose a tremendous amount of SI (currently, you can build up a "reserve" of structural integrity on larger ships to have some freedom with the shape of the group, but not on small ones)

I agree with the stabiliser issue mostly being fixed with the directional stabs - and I loved the chamber system from the announcement as it allows AND requires specialised roles for ships as you can no longer have everything in one boat.

I'm actually looking forward to the weapon and universe update, however the game needs some urgent fixes before that happens, so it can be more than a building sim with no use for the things you build. I'm talking about AI primarily.

 

[kulbolen]

Integrity was directly implemented to kill the spaghetti meta. Thank the guys who invented and abused it for that.

youre welcome, but you should probably thank the people who designed the system that made it effective instead. kinda drives home the point that the games development relies a lot on those people.

 

[Antikristianos]

i think the integrity system is a good feature that just needs some tweaking.

i think it would be workling well enough when the integrity would only recieve negative values for blocks facing empty space and only gain positive values for blocks facing 5-6 blocks of the same system.

this would grant full freedom of shape for the systems as long as they are mostly contained by hull, armor or decoratives and still counter spaghetti.

 

[Valiant70]

(Also, seems that with a bit of manipulation of the system, sticks are still the most efficient configuration for your turnrate and mass because for some reason Schine chose hard facing boundaries as the mechanic to use, but at least it's possible to use the other space on your ship if you want)

We just need a configurable minimum angle between stabilizers to get the bonus. It's only mostly fixed.

EDIT: As of 200.334, it doesn't *look* like you can pull that crap anymore. If it's still possible, turn it into phabricator as a private exploit report.

Wait.... they're not done implementing 2.0 yet .....
*Begins Wrechting*

The weapon update is the other half of the system overhaul. We're kind of in limbo right now and it's weird.

 

[NuclearFun]

We just need a configurable minimum angle between stabilizers to get the bonus. It's only mostly fixed.

EDIT: As of 200.334, it doesn't *look* like you can pull that crap anymore.

Sad thing. That "crap" gave us a little bit of creative freedom back.

 

[Valiant70]

Sad thing. That "crap" gave us a little bit of creative freedom back.

Oh? So you liked stick meta?

 

[YamiHikari]

I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I did do some testing regarding integrity and managed to find a set of values that normalizes the scale of integrity loss in cubic vs. organic builds. Basically, I discovered something I dubbed "negative buffer" that basically uses blocks with more exposed faces as a way to reduce the integrity loss when damage is taken. By destroying low-integrity blocks, the net integrity loss of destruction of blocks is mitigated. I actually managed to find a point where the percentage rate at which organic structures lose integrity can be LESS than the percentage rate at which cubes lose integrity, basically meaning the two would wind up reaching zero at the same time despite one having a lower starting integrity than the other. Here is the link: An Experiment in Integrity, with Suggested Prospective New Integrity Values
[doublepost=1518982466,1518982361][/doublepost]For the record, most of the actually valuable information comes near the end. All you really need are the integrity values I used and the chart of data to get the gist of it all.

 

[NuclearFun]

Oh? So you liked stick meta?

I wrote >creative freedom<, where do you read "stick meta"?

 

[TheDerpGamerX]

Spoiler: shitpost

"Power 2.1 doesnt suck"

(image courtesy of Veilith)

This is an example of Skubmade working perfectly. You see, in power 1.0, lock on missiles would go towards the target. We at Schiney thought this was a bit too unfair, and that it hurt creativity and new players. By implementing a system that makes missile ai curve AWAY from their target, we have created a better game. In addition, instead of doing the simple task of having ai shoot towards reactor hp so that old weapons would still work with the new system until we pushed Weapons 2.0 out, we specifically made it so that the ai shoots like a drunk dude trying to snipe a pea from 3 kilometers away with a shotgun. In doing this, we have fixed the game, as people can't complain about unbalanced pvp if no one can shoot eachother.

Joking aside, I am a bit upset, as instead of doing a quick patch for old weapons while Weapons 2.0 is being developed, they have just ignored the problem entirely. This wouldn't be a problem if Weapons 2.0 came out very soon, but knowing Schema, they announced the update a year before it was released.

 

[MacThule]

Spoiler: shitpost

"Power 2.1 doesnt suck"

(image courtesy of Veilith)

This is an example of Skubmade working perfectly. You see, in power 1.0, lock on missiles would go towards the target. We at Schiney thought this was a bit too unfair, and that it hurt creativity and new players. By implementing a system that makes missile ai curve AWAY from their target, we have created a better game. In addition, instead of doing the simple task of having ai shoot towards reactor hp so that old weapons would still work with the new system until we pushed Weapons 2.0 out, we specifically made it so that the ai shoots like a drunk dude trying to snipe a pea from 3 kilometers away with a shotgun. In doing this, we have fixed the game, as people can't complain about unbalanced pvp if no one can shoot eachother.

Joking aside, I am a bit upset, as instead of doing a quick patch for old weapons while Weapons 2.0 is being developed, they have just ignored the problem entirely. This wouldn't be a problem if Weapons 2.0 came out very soon, but knowing Schema, they announced the update a year before it was released.

The game is unplayable until weapons come. I will be glad they skipped patching weapons that they are actively obsoleting if we see the new weapons soon... but if it takes more than 2-3 months after 2.0 power went release, then they probably should've gone ahead and spent a couple days patching (if it could be done in that time; hard to judge from outside).

Already we are coming up on 1 month. I am definitely starting to get excited about seeing what weapons generally look like. I would love to at least get a dev release of the primary weapon changes (but of course then they take mad grief because the pre-alpha, sneak preview of the rough initial update "doesn't work").

Until the next big release, this car is up on blocks with its wheels scattered around the yard! And honestly, even when weapons drop we are going to spend 3+ months helping Schine get it to some semblance of balance...

 

[Valiant70]

I wrote >creative freedom<, where do you read "stick meta"?

The crap that I was referring to (which you said you liked and I have no idea why) is the stick meta, and an exploit to the new stabilizer changes that made stick meta more powerful. The exploit appears to be patched now.

 

[Ithirahad]

(but of course then they take mad grief because the pre-alpha, sneak preview of the rough initial update "doesn't work").

Nobody minds features being broken in early dev builds, as long as they are fixed later - that's why they're dev builds. People do mind when the mechanics are garbage, and, by all indications, are also the mechanics they would ultimately push to release unless people make obscene amounts of noise about it. See: stabilizers (especially before the patch).

People also mind when features remain broken in release (see: several things in the power update) but that's another topic...

 

[Dire Venom]

Nobody minds features being broken in early dev builds, as long as they are fixed later - that's why they're dev builds. People do mind when the mechanics are garbage, and, by all indications, are also the mechanics they would ultimately push to release unless someone makes noise about it. See: stabilizers (especially before the patch).

People also mind when features remain broken in release (see: several things in the power update) but that's another topic...

This^^^^^^
Previous pre releases have always been positive that I recall, and were a great way to get the community on board.

However releasing completly garbage mechanics, and then making them worse and going against their own set goals.....

Yeah. Totally not self destructive at all.
What a waste of time.
At least they've finally got back on track.

 

[Valiant70]

By the way, I believe I know how to fix integrity.
Necessary Integrity Fixes
This *should* stop the lag and the cube-shaped systems.