Prerelease v0.200.250

[Nosajimiki]

frankly, if they want to try to make ship sizes bigger and systems smaller, they should encourage lightweight structural blocks. I would like to see:
all soft decorative blocks at .01 mass,
all high HP decoratives like scaffolding at .02,
all hull and equivalent blocks at .03,
all standard armor and equivalent blocks at .09, &
all advanced armor and equivalent blocks at .15

 

[StormWing0]

Also why not have some Decorative hull types? Unlike normal hull blocks they'd be lighter and cost less but also their stats would be extremely low a well. This would allow players to make super light ships without having to use normal hull or decorative blocks.

 

[Lecic]

I am talking to our lead tester who has been refitting our ships with full interiors with the new system

Are you even listening to us? I thought we'd made it extremely clear that the problem with your system is that it tries to force players to build interiors. Of course your ships, which are at least 50% interior by volume, are going to be able to fit the new systems without issue.

The problem is that players do not want to be forced to build a useless interior so they are building around it with needles and dumbbells.

IF YOU WANT PLAYERS TO BUILD INTERIORS, ADD CREW.

The fact that you went, "yeah, let's outfit these ridiculously RP heavy ships as our basis for the new system, what could go wrong" speaks volumes about how spectacularly Schine's balance process (doesn't) work. Jesus christ.

 

[Valiant70]

Are you even listening to us? I thought we'd made it extremely clear that the problem with your system is that it tries to force players to build interiors. Of course your ships, which are at least 50% interior by volume, are going to be able to fit the new systems without issue.

The problem is that players do not want to be forced to build a useless interior so they are building around it with needles and dumbbells.

IF YOU WANT PLAYERS TO BUILD INTERIORS, ADD CREW.

The fact that you went, "yeah, let's outfit these ridiculously RP heavy ships as our basis for the new system, what could go wrong" speaks volumes about how spectacularly Schine's balance process (doesn't) work. Jesus christ.

It even hurts RP ships that aren't styled the same way as theirs.

 

[Ithirahad]

It even hurts RP ships that aren't styled the same way as theirs.

Yeah, Schine has unwittingly created a system that mostly just works elegantly for their own (atypical) ships, and as it does work pretty well for those ships, what's wrong with the system is not immediately evident... >.>

It actually has nothing to do with 'interior' and everything to do with the way the ship and its systems space are laid out.

 

[HerrColonel]

Yeah, Schine has unwittingly created a system that mostly just works elegantly for their own (atypical) ships, and as it does work pretty well for those ships, what's wrong with the system is not immediately evident... >.>

It actually has nothing to do with 'interior' and everything to do with the way the ship and its systems space are laid out.

Do you know what ships Criss is talking about? Is there blueprints or something? I'd like to know what their dmg output is

 

[Valiant70]

Do you know what ships Criss is talking about? Is there blueprints or something? I'd like to know what their dmg output is

It's not going to be much for their size or mass. A lot of them look like mostly hull to me.

 

[Dire Venom]

Power lines change nothing. You try hitting a 1 block wide Square at the back of a ship.
Especialy a ship with the same mass as you, but 5 times your power. 5 times your manuvrability and 5 times your firepower.
You cannot get behind it, and even then it could rotate so fast that hitting it's power line would be near impossible.

This system fails to adress the glaring issue that is increased 1 dimension=moar power.

Power lines COULD be a cool system, but not like this.
It does not add to the game experiance. It does not fix the problems it was set to address.

 

[HerrColonel]

Criss Can you upload said ships? I really want to see if they're able to stand against a stick opponent (same mass). So you guys prove us your point was to improve nice looking ships instead of absurd designs?

 

[Dire Venom]

Criss Can you upload said ships? I really want to see if they're able to stand against a stick opponent (same mass). So you guys prove us your point was to improve nice looking ships instead of absurd designs?

I'm betting he will either not reply, or just say "They're not ready yet XD".
They are roleplaying ships, which is fine, but they would be worse than useless in combat.
(Note devs, it is perfectly possible to build a beautiful looking ship which has an inertior and performs well in combat. However the new power system actualy DISCOURAGES making an interior alltogether!! Oh the irony).

"Oh but mah design is fine", yeah judging by how out of touch the devs are I'm not supprised that it works just fine in your own little world. Your afraid of taking it out into the real world because you know it would fail vs any decent player built ship)
If the devs want to encourage interios (Note devs, not FORCE), then they could take one look at the forum and see all the "add work stations" "add crew chambers" etc which would encourage actual interiors.

 

[HerrColonel]

I'm betting he will either not reply, or just say "They're not ready yet XD".
They are roleplaying ships, which is fine, but they would be worse than useless in combat.
(Note devs, it is perfectly possible to build a beautiful looking ship which has an inertior and performs well in combat. However the new power system actualy DISCOURAGES making an interior alltogether!! Oh the irony).

"Oh but mah design is fine", yeah judging by how out of touch the devs are I'm not supprised that it works just fine in your own little world. Your afraid of taking it out into the real world because you know it would fail vs any decent player built ship)
If the devs want to encourage interios (Note devs, not FORCE), then they could take one look at the forum and see all the "add work stations" "add crew chambers" etc which would encourage actual interiors.

Exactly. Who cares if it's possible to design a doll house with the new system with <1 TWR and shit weapons. Combat ships with the old systems used to look like spaceships and actually had interiors, except for some players who were very pragmatic with their building. Personally I always added some mostly because of my autism and because it did not make much difference in the end. Check out my BnS season 3 competitor which actually have a big interior for such a small ship (and other autism features like sliding doors). I don't think interiors needs to be encouraged, ppl like to put some. The current system prohibit interiors because power is so restricted that you don't want any useless mass in order to afford a decent TWR and still have power for weapons.

Edit: to be more clear: useless mass (like interiors) = much more power invested into thrusters for the same TWR = more shitty dmg output

 

[Criss]

F YOU WANT PLAYERS TO BUILD INTERIORS, ADD CREW.

If that's what the actual problem is, then I have to say sorry...? Sorry because we can't do everything at once. If this problem is nullified by having a functioning crew system then we will unfortunately have to wait for crew. Yeah we could fix everything according to your specifications right now. Sure. What happens when we add crew and suddenly you want a bit of interior space for them? Well we will be going back and fourth on this issue until every major feature of the gameplay is in...

I know you're going to rate this as funny and complain and say we are purposefully ignoring you, but you just told me that if we want you to build interiors, then we need to add crew. Okay. Then it's going to have to wait. That's the hard truth.

 

[HerrColonel]

Criss did you not see my request? I'll quote it here for you

Criss Can you upload said ships? I really want to see if they're able to stand against a stick opponent (same mass). So you guys prove us your point was to improve nice looking ships instead of absurd designs?

My message wasn't rude so I expect an answer even if it's no.

 

[Valiant70]

If that's what the actual problem is, then I have to say sorry...? Sorry because we can't do everything at once. If this problem is nullified by having a functioning crew system then we will unfortunately have to wait for crew. Yeah we could fix everything according to your specifications right now. Sure. What happens when we add crew and suddenly you want a bit of interior space for them? Well we will be going back and fourth on this issue until every major feature of the gameplay is in...

I know you're going to rate this as funny and complain and say we are purposefully ignoring you, but you just told me that if we want you to build interiors, then we need to add crew. Okay. Then it's going to have to wait. That's the hard truth.

The main thing to do is try to find a way to reduce the cost of having an interior. The cost is in the form of extra hull and decoration blocks for the interior, and extra armor to cover the outside of a now greater volume.

The new power system has a couple of issues.

1. Decoration blocks are now as heavy as hull. I don't know why this was done, but it needs to be undone.
2. Decoration blocks no longer add anything to the ship. They used to add HP, but there is no longer any HP to add to.

If decoration blocks have to be as heavy as hull for some reason, they need to at least have the same benefits.

 

[Levarith]

YOU REALIZE THAT IT TAKES SEVERAL TIMES MORE STABILIZERS FOR 100% STABILITY IF YOU PUT THEM TOO CLOSE

But wait... doesnt that eliminate your(the communities) "empty space" complaint...

 

[Valiant70]

But wait... doesnt that eliminate your(the communities) "empty space" complaint...

What do you mean?

 

[Levarith]

What do you mean?

The complaint i see mpst is "i am forced to include to much empty space... well... you can shorten the design and include more stabilizers then there is less empty space... still 100% reactor efficiency... still smaller than a massive ship on one dimension.... i personally have enjoyed the stabilizers because it turned the powerhouse ships into unusable junk and forced everyone to do a full redesign... i dont mind not seeing ships with 200k/sec shield regen, and 200 mil shields... battles are actually fun again.

 

[Non]

Wow, missing the point hard.

If that's what the actual problem is, then I have to say sorry...? Sorry because we can't do everything at once.

We aren't asking you to.

If this problem is nullified by having a functioning crew system then we will unfortunately have to wait for crew.

The problem of stabilizers is not nullified by the addition of crew, we are saying that having crew is a much better alternative to forcing space through stabilizers, not that crew makes stabilizer distances ok.

Sure

Alright.

What happens when we add crew and suddenly you want a bit of interior space for them?

What? If I want an interior, I make an interior, please tell me I'm missing something in this question, cause its super weird.

I know you're going to rate this as funny and complain and say we are purposefully ignoring you, but you just told me that if we want you to build interiors, then we need to add crew. Okay.

If you know you will get a negative response from a community of dedicated starmade veterans who who have been playing this game for years and care about it a lot perhaps you need to examine your plan a bit further.

Okay.

Wonderful.

Then it's going to have to wait. That's the hard truth.

Fine, sure, alright, yeah, we can handle waiting for crew, but how about you wait on trying to force that volume in too?

 

[Dire Venom]

Criss we love you man.
Sorry your the one having to deal with the frustrated Mob banging on Schemas door.

If that's what the actual problem is, then I have to say sorry...? Sorry because we can't do everything at once. If this problem is nullified by having a functioning crew system then we will unfortunately have to wait for crew. Yeah we could fix everything according to your specifications right now. Sure. What happens when we add crew and suddenly you want a bit of interior space for them? Well we will be going back and fourth on this issue until every major feature of the gameplay is in...

I know you're going to rate this as funny and complain and say we are purposefully ignoring you, but you just told me that if we want you to build interiors, then we need to add crew. Okay. Then it's going to have to wait. That's the hard truth.

I don't see any issues with this, the concept is solid imo.

The issue the community has been having is simply the implementation.

We want interiors and decour to MATTER and become a solid part of building too, not something which just detriments your ship's performance

Currently in the dev build Decour has apparently been given a huge mass increase without any explanation.

If decorating your ship Cripples it's mass and does not add any armour there is no positive reason to use it. In fact this is the Exact Opposite of what the endgoal document's stated as their goal. We don't want to see creative ships penalized with huge mass and armour penalties

Could we all please try again and develop a system that does not hurt player creativity?

Thank you for taking the time to reply. We really appreciate the contact we have with you!

 

[GnomeKing]

Power lines change nothing. ... hitting it's power line would be near impossible.

This system fails to address the glaring issue that is increased 1 dimension power.