Devblog 18th July, 2017 - End Goal Document Part 2

[The_Owl]

Because this isn't Farming sim 2017, It's a game where you build spaceships.

 

[cdl3050]

Because this isn't Farming sim 2017, It's a game where you build spaceships.

The game lacks content and options. Farming has the potential to positively impact and expand every aspect of the game, except, perhaps; PvP.

I have already built farming areas into my space station.
I have reserved areas on my starting planet for agriculture.
I would like to be able to grow plants on my long-range exploration ships.

All that is lacking is actual in-game farming mechanics, which should be simple to implement as they can be implemented piecemeal: One plant species at a time. It is even possible to start with the preexisting fauna, if only to make sure that the methods work before designing new plants.

Just because you have no interest in expanding the game's non-combat features does not mean that doing so would reduce the parts of the game that you like.

You forgot to mention: "Farmer" and "Rancher"

There is a tremendous amount of interactable content that could easily be added to StarMade without having to worry about any outside dependencies or thought-intensive balance issues.

1. One Planet type at a time: Add inventory items: "Seeds" "Seedlings" "Young Plants" "Flowering Plants" and "Fruiting Plants"
2. One Planet type at a time: Add Placeable 'blocks' for: "Seeds" "Seedlings" "Young Plants" "Flowering Plants" and "Fruiting Plants"
   
3. One Planet type at a time: Add "Plant Seed" and "Growing the Plant" game mechanics.
4. One Planet type at a time: Add inventory items: "Fruits" "Vegetables" "Herbs"
   
5. Add "Harvest the Plant" game mechanics. (In that a Fruiting Plant should have multiple products: The Fruit, Seeds and Leaves/Stems)
   
6. Add Crafting Recipes so that we can make Consumable items out of these plant products.
   
7. Add NPC consumption game mechanics so that NPC's would continually buy Plant Products and player-manufactured Consumables.
8. Add Rare-Decorative Plants (steps 1-7) so that they are carefully position/distributed throughout the Galaxy
9. Repeat 1-8 with Animals. It may take a week or two per step per planet type, but it will be well worth it.

Step 8 will greatly add on to the Exploration 'role.' We need something interesting to find. In my case, I want to find rare plants and animals that have no bearing on the Building part of game play.

 

[Criss]

The game lacks content and options

Unfortunately, this isn't quite the direction we want to take future content for StarMade. Using farmed materials as a manner of progression, trade, or as a resource to fight over sounds nice in theory, but will not comply with our plans for the game. We want there to be reasons to expand, fight for space, and claim large swaths of territory. Farming, in the manner that you describe, will become a chore. Can you imagine micromanaging the farms across one star system, let alone twenty, forty, sixty?

We are not opposed to 4x space games and their resource concepts. If we attach value to a region of space, it will be on the system scale. We cannot possibly ask our players to farm plants on a space station, even in an automated sense, and hope to keep track of it all when there are thousands of star systems in a galaxy alone.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

Unfortunately, this isn't quite the direction we want to take future content for StarMade. Using farmed materials as a manner of progression, trade, or as a resource to fight over sounds nice in theory, but will not comply with our plans for the game. We want there to be reasons to expand, fight for space, and claim large swaths of territory. Farming, in the manner that you describe, will become a chore. Can you imagine micromanaging the farms across one star system, let alone twenty, forty, sixty?

We are not opposed to 4x space games and their resource concepts. If we attach value to a region of space, it will be on the system scale. We cannot possibly ask our players to farm plants on a space station, even in an automated sense, and hope to keep track of it all when there are thousands of star systems in a galaxy alone.

but arnt we gonna be doing that in a way with planetary mining? I mean theres gonna have to be a heck of a lot of logistics involved with setting up mining colonies and transporting all the materials from one place to another. Optimally im expecting a kind of logistical transport network for my empire to work like it does in games like x3.

 

[Criss]

but arnt we gonna be doing that in a way with planetary mining? I mean theres gonna have to be a heck of a lot of logistics involved with setting up mining colonies and transporting all the materials from one place to another. Optimally im expecting a kind of logistical transport network for my empire to work like it does in games like x3.

A level of automation is certainly required for our plans. A good first step was the introduction of fleets. What we need is a way to assign resources or fleets to star systems in a quick manner I think.

 

[cdl3050]

Unfortunately, this isn't quite the direction we want to take future content for StarMade. Using farmed materials as a manner of progression, trade, or as a resource to fight over sounds nice in theory, but will not comply with our plans for the game. We want there to be reasons to expand, fight for space, and claim large swaths of territory. Farming, in the manner that you describe, will become a chore. Can you imagine micromanaging the farms across one star system, let alone twenty, forty, sixty?

We are not opposed to 4x space games and their resource concepts. If we attach value to a region of space, it will be on the system scale. We cannot possibly ask our players to farm plants on a space station, even in an automated sense, and hope to keep track of it all when there are thousands of star systems in a galaxy alone.

Mining is a Chore, but I do it anyway.

You talk about Trade Mechanics, but there is currently nothing in the game worth trading.
Adding Optional Consumables which are produced from Farmed resources is an Excellent way to Encourage & Expand Trading.
The optional tediousness of Farming is what makes its Products Valuable in the first place.
Not only does Farming create More Content, but those players who would Farm rather than Mine would trade their Produce for Ore, etc.

You talk about Fighting for Space, but there is currently nothing in the game itself worth fighting for. Spite and PvP duels are parallel to the game: the game can be played just fine without fighting players or NPCs.
PvP players will want the benefits of the Optional Consumables, and we know that they aren't going to Farm.
They will Raid or Trade instead.

You talk about Exploration Incentives, but there will be Nothing Worth Searching For in the Future you have Envisioned.
I will not care that their is a large deposit of "rare ore" out there somewhere. I will simply stick close to home and constantly re-deplete the "low quality mines" that contain that "rare ore." I would not bother trading for that "rare ore" either. With a big enough Mining Ship, and one or two star systems to mine, I would always have enough of it to get the job done. I already have to do this with Fertikeen.
If I am going to explore, I am going to explore to see Interesting Plants and Animals. I want to see interesting Ecosystems.
I want to see planetary Alien Civilizations operating on Alien Planets with Fleshed Out Alien Ecosystems.

You talk about Imperialism (claiming large swaths of territory), But their is no Reason to grab more than 3 Star Systems per player. In my offline game I can barely make a mark on 2 star systems, and I don't have to worry about anyone attacking me, ever. The stars are the only dangerous foes, and I can just turn them off when I feel like it.
A Large Faction may have many systems, but How Many Systems per Player do they actually Have?
Farming won't necessarily increase the desire to have more territory, but the Farming Stations which support the Faction will have to be Defended - It would be annoying and expensive to replace them. Also, Smaller Factions could conduct guerrilla warfare more easily if there were more targets to attack.
Farming Stations will add to the Dynamics of Imperialism.

If you don't have Time to invent this extra content Have Us invent it For You.

If you don't open your mind to the possibilities of Expanding the Content of StarMade, StarMade will Fail.

Look at: Empyrion
Empyrion – Galactic Survival

If their game actually allows what they advertise, then StarMade may already be Dead in the Water. And they have Farming too!
I just need to make sure that Empyrion will run on my Ubuntu Labtop, if it doesn't, I will just have to hope that Shine fixes their dead universe sooner rather than later. Or maybe just find another game?

Competition is Fierce. Shine needs to find a way to Compete.

 

[StormWing0]

Unfortunately, this isn't quite the direction we want to take future content for StarMade. Using farmed materials as a manner of progression, trade, or as a resource to fight over sounds nice in theory, but will not comply with our plans for the game. We want there to be reasons to expand, fight for space, and claim large swaths of territory. Farming, in the manner that you describe, will become a chore. Can you imagine micromanaging the farms across one star system, let alone twenty, forty, sixty?

We are not opposed to 4x space games and their resource concepts. If we attach value to a region of space, it will be on the system scale. We cannot possibly ask our players to farm plants on a space station, even in an automated sense, and hope to keep track of it all when there are thousands of star systems in a galaxy alone.

Mining is also a chore but we do it anyways, adding Farming under mining doesn't seem all that bad and it can be made use of for fuel and crew mechanics if/when added. Like mining it'd need to be able to be automated somehow by NPC Crew or AI Module pilots but once setup it isn't that hard. That said his idea needs some reworking to even be sane. >.>

 

[cdl3050]

You forgot to mention: "Farmer" and "Rancher"

There is a tremendous amount of interactable content that could easily be added to StarMade without having to worry about any outside dependencies or thought-intensive balance issues.

1. One Planet type at a time: Add inventory items: "Seeds" "Seedlings" "Young Plants" "Flowering Plants" and "Fruiting Plants"
2. One Planet type at a time: Add Placeable 'blocks' for: "Seeds" "Seedlings" "Young Plants" "Flowering Plants" and "Fruiting Plants"
   
3. One Planet type at a time: Add "Plant Seed" and "Growing the Plant" game mechanics.
4. One Planet type at a time: Add inventory items: "Fruits" "Vegetables" "Herbs"
   
5. Add "Harvest the Plant" game mechanics. (In that a Fruiting Plant should have multiple products: The Fruit, Seeds and Leaves/Stems)
   
6. Add Crafting Recipes so that we can make Consumable items out of these plant products.
   
7. Add NPC consumption game mechanics so that NPC's would continually buy Plant Products and player-manufactured Consumables.
8. Add Rare-Decorative Plants (steps 1-7) so that they are carefully position/distributed throughout the Galaxy
9. Repeat 1-8 with Animals. It may take a week or two per step per planet type, but it will be well worth it.

Step 8 will greatly add on to the Exploration 'role.' We need something interesting to find. In my case, I want to find rare plants and animals that have no bearing on the Building part of game play.

I seem to have failed to properly convey my idea of Farming....

That said his idea needs some reworking to even be sane. >.>

Please let me know what part of my idea I need to elaborate on.

 

[Criss]

You talk about Trade Mechanics, but there is currently nothing in the game worth trading.

Because you are not expending resources at a rate in which you need to source them by other means. It is not hard to mine into everlasting wealth at the moment, but are you also creating defense fleets and trade routes between dozens of star systems? No. We have not yet reached a point where those are necessary.

but there will be Nothing Worth Searching For in the Future you have Envisioned.

That depends on what you value. Again, we have a pretty stagnant and level playing field. Nothing changes, and nothing is localized to a few spots. You can find anything you want in any location on the galactic map. When that changes, so too will your need to explore. Simply finding the right place to settle may become itself quite a conquest. How long do you think it will take to assess an entire galaxies star systems in order to find a good home? We plan on introducing many more factors into this decision.

Farming wouldn't be so terrible if starmade was on a solar system scale. I could live with that. But we are on an intergalactic scale. Empyrion and similar titles thrive on survival gameplay because you aren't expected to farm enough food for an entire space faring civilization, you are farming for yourself and a few friends at most. Do you think city building games would be fun if you had to plop down into an individual farm on your map and manage it? It's a different scale altogether.

 

[Valiant70]

You forgot to mention: "Farmer" and "Rancher"

There is a tremendous amount of interactable content that could easily be added to StarMade without having to worry about any outside dependencies or thought-intensive balance issues.

1. One Planet type at a time: Add inventory items: "Seeds" "Seedlings" "Young Plants" "Flowering Plants" and "Fruiting Plants"
2. One Planet type at a time: Add Placeable 'blocks' for: "Seeds" "Seedlings" "Young Plants" "Flowering Plants" and "Fruiting Plants"
   
3. One Planet type at a time: Add "Plant Seed" and "Growing the Plant" game mechanics.
4. One Planet type at a time: Add inventory items: "Fruits" "Vegetables" "Herbs"
   
5. Add "Harvest the Plant" game mechanics. (In that a Fruiting Plant should have multiple products: The Fruit, Seeds and Leaves/Stems)
   
6. Add Crafting Recipes so that we can make Consumable items out of these plant products.
   
7. Add NPC consumption game mechanics so that NPC's would continually buy Plant Products and player-manufactured Consumables.
8. Add Rare-Decorative Plants (steps 1-7) so that they are carefully position/distributed throughout the Galaxy
9. Repeat 1-8 with Animals. It may take a week or two per step per planet type, but it will be well worth it.

Step 8 will greatly add on to the Exploration 'role.' We need something interesting to find. In my case, I want to find rare plants and animals that have no bearing on the Building part of game play.



Why do you discount the immense value of interesting Flora and Fauna?
The Space Spiders that I occasionally encounter are Super Awesome and I Greatly wish that there was More Flora and Fauna to See, monsters included.

Please put more thought into the value of Agriculture and Wild Flora and Fauna.

Thank You for Reading.

You know, I like these ideas. I really wish we could see something like this in Starmade. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever see something like this as farming has been shot down over and over despite how well it fits the game in a Minecraft-esque sort of way. The advantage that starmade appears to have over other space sandbox games is the diversity of its content rather than necessarily the quality of specific features. What others have done better in bits and pieces, Starmade is trying to combine into one big picture that's greater than the sum of its parts.

Seeing things grow is awesome. Working to find, capture, and cultivate them in a vast universe full of spaceships, exploration, creativity, and warfare is even better.
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Farming wouldn't be so terrible if starmade was on a solar system scale. I could live with that. But we are on an intergalactic scale. Empyrion and similar titles thrive on survival gameplay because you aren't expected to farm enough food for an entire space faring civilization, you are farming for yourself and a few friends at most. Do you think city building games would be fun if you had to plop down into an individual farm on your map and manage it? It's a different scale altogether.

I definitely see what you mean, but that's not the best part of farming. Most games do the old "You want to live? You eat. You want to eat? You farm." While industrial farming could work for NPC crew, I'm thinking of something rather different: Plants and animals that are not only cool to look at, but are a challenge to take care of and provide unique small-scale rewards such as enhanced personal equipment or just a cool little buddy that floats around in a hamster-sized spacesuit and helps you find hidden things while exploring the surface of a planet.

 

[Levarith]

I could see farming being useful to produce "Food" for crew which could be one way to boost crew morale. So if they were well fed you could work them harder and therefore have fewer crew without sacrificing the efficiency of the ship at 100% crew morale. This would provide the effect of "don't like farming? Hire more crew and you're fine." but for those of us that would love to have an empire builder and a purpose behind "colonizing" multiple worlds other than "just cuz." Farming would add an extra dimension to the game that would be great. If your empire is getting to large for your supply line to keep up then it's time to slow down and colonize a new world for agriculture, resupply your fleets and move on. It also makes every territory lost that much more of a loss and give reasons to have real defense fleets in your systems and would add a sense of urgency to defending or retaking systems.