Fairly certain Whammy has me blocked for shooting down his bad ideas, but let me clarify.
Censorship: the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security
Shooting down a bad idea: proving how and why an idea is bad with evidence and logic
Nah, people need to show off and make witty remarks.
Thanks for the support dude, I see that I am a little bit alone with my point of view on this matter. But if many people think something is right, doesn't make it neccessarily right anyway. xD It's not my fault after all, if other people make mistakes. I look out that I say the right stuff and act right, if others act or talk wrong...well I pointed it out once, and if everything stays the same it doesn't matter for me. My duty is done.
And one last time for everyone let me give you another example of what I would blantly delete if I were mod here (thanks god I am not xD) and wanted to make a statement about what kind of communication is off the road in the forum. I would not do so very often, but when I feel that the general forum communication is not good enough for a longer time I would delete some stuff as an example, so the people get back to normal and understand that a mature discussion culture is goal on this forum:
This post, for obvious illogical reasoning. It's annoying to read for any sane person that understand just a little bit of logic. Let me explain it your you Debris: This post is not usefull, because it assumes I would like that anything I dont like should be censored. That is what you say in your first sentence. But I clearly asked for something else in my starting post and in the following explanations of mine in this thread!
This post, as it again is shallow thought out: I said, its totally fine to have the same opinion twice or three times. (But then the mods should start cleaning up - And they should clean up the bigger discussions by themself, not the reported posts only...)
I can't explain very well, why I would delete parts the following post: As a matter of fact, I think the first sentence is allready taking what I said out of context and trying to use it against me. Secondly it is written in caps, at the start and at the end. I would just delete the start and the end of the post and give a comment, that says "please no caps and please be reasonable in your argumentation. his posts did add something new and werent as offensively written as yours: first of all he added new examples in every post so the mods can understand better what he tries to suggest, secondly he replied to actual new opinions with actual new thoughts to the matter. He tried to draw a line between fun and derailing discussions, and that has not been done in the topic before. So you should think more carefull about the arguments you try to present here in this forum." I would delete the start and the end of the post and let the middle be as it is.
I want to add lastly: Deleting posts or parts of it is a last resort. It's nothing that should be used on a daily basis. But it should be used more often in this forum, and I suggest to delete on just a percentage (like every fourth) of the posts that fall under my set of rules to find useless posts. Just to give people examples on how to talk here, and give them a neccessary guidance. So they don't think it's tolerated or mature to act like that. And so they know where the road is and that they are off limits. Then the community might regulate itself if you explain yourself well enough dear moderators. And the deleting will be just something that still happens only in rare cases instead of beeing some censorship like some guys fear it here.
But. If it all stays the same I would take myself one thread and delete the shit out of it and leave no useless comment out. So everyone gets this: the goal is a forum where people like to read through, instead of being overwhelmed like it is now. So the users in question get a clear message when the hints with the sporadic edits and warning points didn't help.
We don't want to delete the amount of stuff we already do. However we cannot pm every person who seems to have offended someone or broken a rule to fix the issue either so we do just delete the post.
Those who have pmed us about such things seriously get well received and in most cases tend to get their post restored under conditions to fit the thread/rules.
But people rarely pm us about the events.
We are reasonable. Talk to us.
That's about the censorship people are against.
Regarding the op post: As nice and idealistic as it is its not feasible and takes away the ability to have a free flowing heated discussion.
Dude that's exactly the stuff I was talking about when I mentioned "abilities".
First of all: I am a nazi? What. The. Fuck. If I am a nazi then what are you? May I call you names now? =) Dont insult me like this. I am a german and this is actually not just a little weird in my country to call someone nazi here. I don't know if its ok in other countries to call someone nazi, but in germany its like calling someone nigger. Thank you for the insult.
And everyone who just overlooked this conversation and ignored what this dude just called me: Hello wake up. I am the actual minority with my opinion here in this thread. And get strongly picked on for having a unique set of mind. You see what I did here? Who is the actual nazi here boy?
As you are a german, You should know about the Brown-coats aka Sturmabteilung and their roles in "enforcing morals" . I believe this is where the common denominator is; you repeatedly talk about how others should listen to you and how you are "morally right".
If you are "the minority" what do you think gives YOU the right to tell the majority how to act? Where does this semblance of personal perfection come from? Why should a "minority" have over-representation?
Secondly. I didn't ask for censoring opinions like you are exagerating. I asked to delete multiple repeated opinions as an example until people improve their behavior. And I asked to delete useless comments that don't add new facts or information - but only sporadic or in selected heated threads until the community improved their way of talking and had some change of hearth. Just so they have examples to recognise. But I think I allready said that in every post I have written in this topic since the censorship argument came up. Thanks for ignoring those words of mine. It certainly helped to understand each other better. Not. Gosh.
What if we want YOU to improve YOUR BEHAVIOR?You are attempting to impose YOUR MORAL STANDARDS ON OTHERS.
edit: I'm going to try to go out of my way to be clear here: I don't think you are actually "thinking" when you read what I post in responce to you directly. You certainly have not answered questions directly posed towards you. You are unwilling to debate in a rational manner. Instead you Hide behind a "victim status" when your ideals are challenged with reality. You additionally dismiss "unique thought" (your own words)
Bringing up Germany's Latest "censorship laws" is a perfect exaple of the absolutely pitiful state of the culture there. Here is a meme that explains what is wrong with those retarded laws. Think about it.
You project your dislike for "non-meme, serious, original proper arguments" yet you have done the very thing you claim to despise on this very thread, I would quote those but it seems others have beat me to it.
Yeah but if people with a minority opinion get shut down by multiple, partly unlogically reasoned and partly insulting posts, it doesnt help the free flowing discussion neither. Then people read through this stuff and quickly stop reading, as they quickly learn that they will be treated just the same if they are not appealing with their opinion to the bigger audience. You then only have the loudest and strongest bears remaining in the forum-pit but the others will get scared away if you let it flow too freely. Secondly the discussion then will just flow in the stream of the majorities opinions. Often enough, and this happend before, two main opinions evolve and those two streams then crush at each other to this big unbearable discussions like we had in the power proposal talk.
You can ofcourse let it flow freely. But then let me insult people too please.(joke) I have no problem with total anarachy. But if you constitute some rules of not derailing threads and not insulting, then you also should think about pushing the users towards more reasoning.
I mean its fine if the free flowing heated discussions is that what the staff wants.
On the other hand: for me it's just stressful to read and often enough the actual quality of the posts really suffers from this freedom. I am convinced that many people get scared away by this climate. The climate like it happend when people shouted around for the prototype being viewed in a Stream and the thread got closed afterwards. And I don't know if this spirit is also wanted and if this spirit is worth the free flowing discussions.
Still I can life with it if nothing changes. After all I like it when people dont have to watch to hard about whats right to say. It has its upsides too. But I wanted to throw around my ideas on how to improve the communities behaviour towards each other and towards the devs. Maybe they are not the best but I wanted at least to try.
Yeah but if people with a minority opinion get shut down by multiple, partly unlogically reasoned and partly insulting posts, it doesnt help the free flowing discussion neither. Then people read through this stuff and quickly stop reading, as they quickly learn that they will be treated just the same if they are not appealing with their opinion to the bigger audience. You then only have the loudest and strongest bears remaining in the forum-pit but the others will get scared away if you let it flow too freely. Secondly the discussion then will just flow in the stream of the majorities opinions. Often enough, and this happend before, two main opinions evolve and those two streams then crush at each other to this big unbearable discussions like we had in the power proposal talk.
If you are "the minority" what do you think gives YOU the right to tell the majority how to act? Where does this semblance of personal perfection come from? Why should a "minority" have over-representation?
First of all: I am a nazi? What. The. Fuck. If I am a nazi then what are you? May I call you names now? =) Dont insult me like this. I am a german and this is actually not just a little weird in my country to call someone nazi here. I don't know if its ok in other countries to call someone nazi, but in germany its like calling someone nigger. Thank you for the insult.
If you're German than you should immediately understand why I am calling someone who wants to abuse moderator powers to silence anyone who opposes him who is "repetitive" Nazi, much like how the Nazis and other repressive authoritarian regimes like Stalinist Russia would use nonsensical reasons to suppress their political opponents.
JinM, you are throwing two different arguments here when one is addressed you are turning to the second and vice versa. Not only are you doing exactly what you are complaining about but also just making any point to address pointless rending this thread pointless by choice and design.
-i crossed a line- sorry. Edit: Example of an offtopic or non constructive post. Would normally be removed on other threads. Again, it is another post 'husk' after an edit.
Okay.
Lets start with the initial post Lecic made that was removed for being offtopic and no constructive, shall we?
Oh boy, look at all the great points Lecic has made in this well thought-out post. This isn't totally non-contructive to the immediate discussion at all.
Another removed posts that's not Lecic (AMAZING):
There are other posts, such as:
This one actually has a point, I also work full time and have other commitments away from the forum. I don't have time, nor do I want to sit through hours of stream - but if you read a little further down (Schemas quotes) you'll see why this was also removed.
I don't have an issue with Lecic, or any forum member voicing their opinions.
I have an issue with posting bullshit snowflake requirement for news update formats, while totally ignoring other information such as:
Making a post in a news update thread in the way that Lecic did is not okay. If you have enough of an issue to fight the decision of the moderators 'Censoring' your opinions, make a forum post much like this one about it.
If you have an issue with the format Schine uses to post updates, make a new forum thread about it (which has been done, good job)
If you have an issue with the actions a moderator takes, PM the entire moderation team if you have to.
What you don't do is bitch and moan with memes and counter-intuitive arguments to people who are volunteers trying to appease a community that complains about every decision that gets made.
Ultimately, it's not a requirement for the moderation team to justify their actions - but I prefer doing so to give some level of transparency.
Thanks for reading. Edit: Example of an offtopic or non constructive post. Would normally be removed on other threads.
You must be kidding me. I hide behind a victim status? Dude I just posted this nazi argumentation line after he called me a nazi. It was just another argument on top of all the other arguments and suggestions I presented. Lecic crossed a line I didnt like, and I clearly expressed that. And you are just crossing a line too by saying I victimize myself.
But hey man I am sorry. You seem to lack easy argumentation skills, and need to reffer to bloated up cliche´s like nazis, and the self victimizing argument. I was never talking about minorities until the nazi term was brought up dude. And then I was only talking about minorities to actually counter the nazi argument. I didn't use it anywhere else up to this point! So get out of this thread and stop derailing it with other clichés.
And learn this: using clichés like self victimizing or nazi comparissions are easily countered, as they bear no real meaning behind themself. These two topics can be applied very often to so many hot topics and they often get used as last resort when you find no other counterargument in your arsenal.
What comes next? Do you guys find resemblances with apes and my argumentation lines to explain what you think? Wait lets use another cliché. Maybe I use words like Trump does - so clearly my point of view is wrong.
Again, you are taking one portion of my post, and using it as a reason to "claim victim status" so you can avoid answering the DIRECT QUESTIONS POSED relative to the only sound points in your position.
The moderator has just pointed out you are doing this, Lecic pointed it out, I pointed it out. Step off your inability to conceive of the idea that questions may be asked in good faith.
I am being completely serious and rational here: Please look back through my direct-quoted posts to you, and answer my directly-posed questions. I am doing this to try to understand your position better, and also to get you to understand mine though examining the reasons for the media I have placed in front of your ape-like face (happy? All huans are ape-like. Ye ask, ye shall receive.
And to your other arguments you have: I dont even want to reply to them because its so annoying to read through your stuff with the memes the caps and all that. I understood what you tried to point out. I disagree with it. But I am too proud to explain stuff further to a little boy who still uses caps and memes.
Personal attack , cognitive dissonance. "a person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable, and so is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance: ...by actively avoiding social situations and contradictory information that are likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance."
Fix your inability to act rationally before you require it of others.
You know there is a very easy solution to your problem with repetitive posts and it has to do with your reading behaviour.
If the discussion in question gets long, start skimming over the posts, if they seem to bring up nothing new, just skip to the next post or, in case of a long post, the next paragraph. No need to delete posts which don't violate any rules.
Because you've brought up nationallty: I'm German too and get why you can't stand being called a Nazi, however, I consider myself capable of interpreting the statement in the way it was intended to be interpreted. Therefore I'm sure that it's intention was to point out the enormous dislike for your suggestion which comes across as rather authoritarian and in support of censorship and to show this you were compared to the probably most disliked authoritarian regime in history. Would I've chosen the same words? No, but we have to understand that on an international platform we may encounter different customs regarding the use of the word "Nazi". In your position I'd probably have asked the person in question to replace "Nazi" with something else, although I can't say for sure, since I'm not in your position.
Again, you are taking one portion of my post, and using it as a reason to "claim victim status" so you can avoid answering the DIRECT QUESTIONS POSED relative to the only sound points in your position.
The moderator has just pointed out you are doing this, Lecic pointed it out, I pointed it out. Step off your inability to conceive of the idea that questions may be asked in good faith.
I am being completely serious and rational here: Please look back through my direct-quoted posts to you, and answer my directly-posed questions. I am doing this to try to understand your position better, and also to get you to understand mine though examining the reasons for the media I have placed in front of your ape-like face (happy? All huans are ape-like. Ye ask, ye shall receive.
edit:
Personal attack , cognitive dissonance. "a person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable, and so is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance: ...by actively avoiding social situations and contradictory information that are likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance."
Fix your inability to act rationally before you require it of others.
This only gets further personal and doesn't progress the topic. Let it rest man. I told you that I have no urge to express myself to you. I said what I wanted to tell towards the community. Have a nice day. And don't forget to rate my post funny. Jerks.
Can we have the report button scale in size based on the amount of toxicity(precedents) of a member? I guess it can help.
P.S: I forgot to quote Thingie's post.
Edit: Example of an offtopic or non constructive post. Would normally be removed on other threads. Technically
This only gets further personal and doesn't progress the topic. Let it rest man. I told you that I have no urge to express myself to you. I said what I wanted to tell towards the community. Have a nice day. And don't forget to rate my post funny. Jerks.
This only gets further personal and doesn't progress the topic. Let it rest man. I told you that I have no urge to express myself to you. I said what I wanted to tell towards the community. Have a nice day. And don't forget to rate my post funny. Jerks.
I understand. Keep being petulant. It really shows your class.
I hope you grow out of that for your sake and for those around you that depend on you being a rational, functioning human being.
Edit: Example of a trolling post. User would receive points
Well, that's actually what's been happening lately. There have been an increasing number of threads where members with an opposing viewpoint choose not to discuss/debate the topic at hand but rather dismiss it outright and trash talk instead. Then the thread shifts from the original topic to trivial bickering and stays there until it either goes dead or gets locked just like the power update thread.
Isn't that censorship as well?
Most arguments on here are sparked out of some form of self-interest or personal opinion and "bad ideas" are often nothing more than ideas we disagree with. Antagonism is unwarranted in this situation and will never lead to a constructive discussion; it only leads to more antagonism.
With regard to divergent thought; I agree that it can be beneficial to the community and the game's progress but there's a constructive way to do it. Starting fights for the sake of it is not constructive.
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