I've been a moderator on these forums for almost a year now, and all this time I've been working under the assumption that StarMade Dock should be a family friendly place where people from every walk of life can come and speak freely about all things StarMade without fear of prejudice or reprisal. This means that parents should not have to worry about what their kids might see when they browse this forum.
Am I alone in this thought?
It's been suggested that I may be a bit too heavy handed when it comes to discipline and the doling out of warnings. With every single warning I issue, and every single post I delete or edit, I think: is this something I want my 10 or 12 year old son, daughter, niece or nephew to see? Is this something I want to discourage from happening again. I've had more than a couple complaints lodged against me, but I never took it personally. Now I'm starting to think they might be right.
So the Poll question: Should this be a family friendly forum?
And what does family friendly mean to you?
Yes, it should be family friendly as a broad term, but that doesnt mean deletion or heavy editing of posts. If it gets on the simpsons or family guy, then it should be fine to stay.
As to "cursing" the majority of those terms in english were only deemed inappropriate by either the church or later by the court of Queen Victoria because she couldnt believe ANYBODY would talk about certain parts of their anatomy or certain acts (they were in fact the correct, normal terms until that point).
Modern sensibilities and upbrinings, however teach us to take offense at those terms. To prevent heavy handed moderation on posts containing them, consider partial censorship only.
Example:
Fucking becomes F***ing.
The first letter is visible, along with the tense. Meaning is not lost - as threads and discussions can become heated, its important to keep the meaning and intent. (few kids over the age of ten dont know the terminology anyway).
However, on the grounds of racist, bigoted, [insert other ugly school of thought here] terminology, "memes" and other content, you should play by ear. Outright hate speech should not be allowed, but if someone happens to think something and expresses it in a civil manner, then they should not be automatically silenced - watched a little more closely, yes, but not made to vanish.
Offtopic posts should remain also. it should be easy enough to set the forum to have a feature similar to ignored content where at the bottom of the page (and preferably the top as well) theres an option to "view offtopic content". This prevents a lot of heat towards admins who may or may not appreciate some peoples views of what is on or offtopic. The posts remain opt-in - a bit like the faction roleplay forum thing.
Edit: for that matter, heated debates could be put under the same kind of system when viewing the forum: "view drama mode?"
Family friendly? Sure, but seeing as family friendliness is subjective; Maybe there should be clearer-cut guidelines as-to what is considered family friendly when a post is moderated? The community could give feedback on a guidelines proposal, determining the 'friendliness' sweet spot for such a document.
family friendly is okay, but dont design the site for 6 year olds. Back when I was growing up, chat and forum sites like this had a 13+ rule, because they understood it was impossible to control everything.
In places like suggestions and general discussion, where most people would roam, it makes sense to be a bit strict. But when it comes to places like factions and offtopic, you can afford to be a bit more lenient.
Should this forum make an attempt to be family friendly? It already does, it prohibits 18+ content as well as discriminatory discussion
Should this forum drasticly enforce "think of the children" rukes? No it should not.
I guess what I am saying here is, while the rules could be better and better enforced, they are fine as is in terms of family friendly.
Parents should be the ones who ensure their children are safe on the forums, not the internet itself, if parents do not like the content their child is viewing, options are avaliable (such as net nanny) to block such content.
So I do believe this site is ok in terms of family frienlyness as it is, I do not believe any additional "think of the children rules" are needed at all.
If parents do not like the occasional faction flame war on this site because they think its bad for their children, its their responsibility to do something about it, not the forum where its occuring.
That isnt to say you cant prohibit 18+ content and such, but please for the love of god don't make this forum into a place where 6 year olds can browse on their iPad, that isnt your responsibility, its the parents.
I'm concerned that the forums are currently not family-friendly enough for the sake of the game. This is one of those rare kid-friendly games that doesn't have blood in it. Starmade in its current form is a really great game for all ages. Parents gotta love that. Suggestions for bloody wounds and horror content were rejected some time ago, or at least are buried so far below current priorities, that they may never see the time of day.
If a parent looks over their little snowflake's shoulder and observes various spellings of various expletives in the forums, they might overreact. We wouldn't lose a player we are better off without. We'd lose a player who has parents that we are better off without. I've even met good kid players of other games who actively avoid adult content, like expletives. So it's much like harrassing a player until they stop playing, or at least until they stop reading the forums.
You can't please everyone, but I think you can estimate the reaction of the average parent. Mild expletives might be fine ("Gosh darn him to Heck!"). However, language that an ordinary adult might consider everyday language wouldn't pass muster. I believe we should think about the age range of the game, and model the forum accordingly.
As Sachys mentioned, I like the idea of "masking" expletives with asterisks. You still get the general idea, but underage forum readers still don't get the full spelling. So their parents or the kids themselves can say that its something else, like how BSG popularized the mostly-harmless expletive "frak".
Many current forum members would insist that anyone offended should grow thicker skin, but until the game gets more "adult content", I think it would be for the game's better good if the forums were cleaner.
I don't think it's within reason to censor mannerisms.
It's within your power to do so, but not a wise time/effort allocation.
For one, who's "family" is it to be friendly for? I'm sure a Chav, Kiwi, Baptist, or PC family will have wildly differing opinions on the usage of 'cunt'.
Some people have a vernacular that turns the air blue, but it's not really your place to say weather others need to be sheltered from that color of air.
Reality is what it is. People are what/who they are. Wittingly preventing young people from experiencing that is a disservice to them and their ability to adapt to it.
That's not to say that a civil attitude shouldn't be expected.
IMO you should have the maturity of a 16 year old to be on a public forum such as this one. Note that i said Maturity.
I know we have a lot of younger people of the forum, however for the most part they behave maturely.
For this reason, i believe the language that is used on the forum (swearing, in particular) is okay. However explicit, descriptive texts, or over serialisation or forum member through stories or flaming/trolling, are not appropriate. We have tried a censoring system on SMD before, it simply doesn't work. As majority of the community is perfectly fine with foul language, and complains when that foul language isn't allowed.
For the most part, the forum is 'family friendly', however I would not bring my kids here.
You wouldn't want anyone under the age of 16 to access forums, as they do not understand the implications of their actions.
We cannot perform background screening on everyone that joins the forum - having a mature atmosphere filters out the less mature - and possibly at-risk audience automatically.
i have to disagree with crusade. i would agree if this forum were for a rated T, M or AO game. SM at its worst would hit the E10+ for humor and maybe language once more of the universe is scripted. if you can pick up this game and play it then the forum should reflect that. while online interaction ratings would depend on the server ofc. if i were running a server i'd rate the server itself for T with all the content marked off because someone is going to RP as a druggie and someone else is going to RP as a failing recovered gambler and both are going to swear like sailors, get super suggestive and i can guarantee one will be flying a giant fl3sh light and the other a ciant gock and ramming each other at full speed in spawn... ..and they are likely to be part of the admin team. since this is also the same game the sub-forums should reflect this culture as well. they may get rarely used but there's a place to have them moved if a mod found the need.
we can't vet and background check everyone (and we shouldn't) but why not make the effort to have those partitions within the forum? have a place for mature RP and sh!tposting and others for the kiddies' sandbox. all it would take is a good pair of admins, a community manager with patience (and a generous vacation package) and a properly managed team of mods. crus and thingie are making an effort. i applaud them for it. i applaud like a seal trying to tease a bit of fish out of a trainer for being a 'particularly good boy'. great strides have been made in making SMD and SM more appealing to a broader and creative audience. a lot of this has to do with the servers. wanna suggestively smash bit of ships together and film it for later? there's a server for that (usually 127.0.0.1:4242) but there's also servers that essentially give you a single player experience while you have people to talk to. people to ask questions and bounce ideas off each other if so inclined. most of those servers are silent until someone needs help with a build or an over active pirate neighbor. then there's servers that dedicate themselves to finding game breaking exploits and PvP best practices. who am I to tell a server owner their exclusive PvP sh!tshow serber can't have rules against cussing or splitting infinitives?
alterintel you're doing just fine. people will always complain.
just strive to be the least hated angel in heaven.
That's not an option for an increasing number of children. The places I played at as a child don't exist anymore, they are blocked by buildings now. Playgrounds and empty areas don't generate profits, so they have to go.
Yes, it should be family friendly as a broad term, but that doesnt mean deletion or heavy editing of posts. If it gets on the simpsons or family guy, then it should be fine to stay.
Fucking becomes F***ing.
The first letter is visible, along with the tense. Meaning is not lost - as threads and discussions can become heated, its important to keep the meaning and intent. (few kids over the age of ten dont know the terminology anyway).
However, on the grounds of racist, bigoted, [insert other ugly school of thought here] terminology, "memes" and other content, you should play by ear. Outright hate speech should not be allowed, but if someone happens to think something and expresses it in a civil manner, then they should not be automatically silenced - watched a little more closely, yes, but not made to vanish.
Family friendly? Sure, but seeing as family friendliness is subjective; Maybe there should be clearer-cut guidelines as-to what is considered family friendly when a post is moderated? The community could give feedback on a guidelines proposal, determining the 'friendliness' sweet spot for such a document.
family friendly is okay, but dont design the site for 6 year olds. Back when I was growing up, chat and forum sites like this had a 13+ rule, because they understood it was impossible to control everything.
In places like suggestions and general discussion, where most people would roam, it makes sense to be a bit strict. But when it comes to places like factions and offtopic, you can afford to be a bit more lenient.
agreed. Perhaps there should be a "Caution Mature Content" button when entering certain forum pages or even Posters could self moderate by being given the option to state that their post will be intended for mature audiences?
Parents should be the ones who ensure their children are safe on the forums, not the internet itself, if parents do not like the content their child is viewing, options are available (such as net nanny) to block such content.
Agreed, that parents are ultimately responsible for the content their children consume. However at this point why even have a moderation staff? Just let net nanny moderate the forum. why not just let people post what ever they want and let parents or people decided what they want to read or participate in? (I'm being sarcastic here, because I don't know how else to explain my opposition to this statement.)
I do not agree.
Here is an excerpt from the rules:
Offensive Content
The StarMade Dock is the official StarMade forum, as such we try to be accommodating to a broad range of audiences. We have many families and younger users frequenting this site, offensive/obscene content is NOT permitted. Please respect those around you when posting or using our chat function. This warning has two versions, 'Major' and 'Minor' infringements. Generally, 'Major' warnings are issued for second offenses, but this decision is up to the moderator - depending on the severity of the content.
If parents do not like the occasional faction flame war on this site because they think its bad for their children, its their responsibility to do something about it, not the forum where its occuring.
That isnt to say you cant prohibit 18+ content and such, but please for the love of god don't make this forum into a place where 6 year olds can browse on their iPad, that isnt your responsibility, its the parents.
I've even met good kid players of other games who actively avoid adult content, like expletives. So it's much like harrassing a player until they stop playing, or at least until they stop reading the forums.
As Sachys mentioned, I like the idea of "masking" expletives with asterisks. You still get the general idea, but underage forum readers still don't get the full spelling. So their parents or the kids themselves can say that its something else, like how BSG popularized the mostly-harmless expletive "frak".
Many current forum members would insist that anyone offended should grow thicker skin, but until the game gets more "adult content", I think it would be for the game's better good if the forums were cleaner.
For one, who's "family" is it to be friendly for? I'm sure a Chav, Kiwi, Baptist, or PC family will have wildly differing opinions on the usage of 'cunt'.
Some people have a vernacular that turns the air blue, but it's not really your place to say weather others need to be sheltered from that color of air.
disagree. and so do the rules "You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws.
For this reason, i believe the language that is used on the forum (swearing, in particular) is okay. However explicit, descriptive texts, or over serialisation or forum member through stories or flaming/trolling, are not appropriate.
Occasional use of foul language is perfectly acceptable. And I totally believe that a vocal few have complained about being warned when their over use of profanity has crossed the line.
Well I think any kid that is capable of playing Starmade should be able to read these forums. In-fact in it's current state I would argue that the game is practically unplayable without the knowledge base of these forums. Until this game has a 16+ rating on it, the forums should cater to all audiences.
So you're going for a "mature" only audience? this kind of filter filters out the young and the civil. I would argue that this kind of filter makes the community even smaller. I think a more appropriate way to write that would be "having a immature atmosphere filters out the mature"
i have to disagree with crusade. i would agree if this forum were for a rated T, M or AO game. SM at its worst would hit the E10+ for humor and maybe language once more of the universe is scripted. if you can pick up this game and play it then the forum should reflect that.
if i were running a server i'd rate the server itself for T with all the content marked off because someone is going to RP as a druggie and someone else is going to RP as a failing recovered gambler and both are going to swear like sailors, get super suggestive and i can guarantee one will be flying a giant fl3sh light and the other a ciant gock and ramming each other at full speed in spawn... ..and they are likely to be part of the admin team.
we can't vet and background check everyone (and we shouldn't) but why not make the effort to have those partitions within the forum? have a place for mature RP and sh!tposting and others for the kiddies' sandbox.
a lot of this has to do with the servers. wanna suggestively smash bit of ships together and film it for later? there's a server for that (usually 127.0.0.1:4242)
but there's also servers that essentially give you a single player experience while you have people to talk to. people to ask questions and bounce ideas off each other if so inclined. most of those servers are silent until someone needs help with a build or an over active pirate neighbor.
then there's servers that dedicate themselves to finding game breaking exploits and PvP best practices. who am I to tell a server owner their exclusive PvP sh!tshow serber can't have rules against cussing or splitting infinitives?
if i were running a server i'd rate the server itself for T with all the content marked off because someone is going to RP as a druggie and someone else is going to RP as a failing recovered gambler and both are going to swear like sailors, get super suggestive and i can guarantee one will be flying a giant fl3sh light and the other a ciant gock and ramming each other at full speed in spawn... ..and they are likely to be part of the admin team.
Age appropriateness of the forum should match the age appropriateness of the game.
If Starmade is going to market itself as being acceptable for 10 year olds to use, then the forums should also be acceptable for 10 year olds to use.
Just makes sense to me. The forums for My Little Pony Adventures and the forums for Grand Theft Auto should have very different rules on what is and is not acceptable.
Age appropriateness of the forum should match the age appropriateness of the game.
If Starmade is going to market itself as being acceptable for 10 year olds to use, then the forums should also be acceptable for 10 year olds to use.
Just makes sense to me. The forums for My Little Pony Adventures and the forums for Grand Theft Auto should have very different rules on what is and is not acceptable.
Expect that's not how real life works, even less so with Starmade. Servers are not owned by Schine, and they can not control what happens there. It doesnt matter how "family friendly" you try and make your game if the most populated server is basically rated M.
Even if the game is made for Everyone, forums and chatrooms are always 13+ rated
I just want to State for the record that it was on a private online server and was swiftly moved then deleted. However I agree, in the time I have been an admin on servers I have seen many lewd and phallic things. People joke around all the time and its something you cant lose, as majority of all I know have played the game are late teens or above.
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