Reduce Lag with Hard Limits

[alterintel]

Instead of trying to use complicated mechanics and soft limits to limit lag and coincidentally limit creativity as well. I propose the following server config options that should make any instance of Starmade scale-able to any server.

Server config options for hard limits

• number of blocks per entity
• number of docked entities
• number of entities per sector per faction **
• number of factions per sector (not sure about this one)
• number of simultaneous missiles fired per entity
• number of simultaneous cannon rounds fired per entity
• number of simultaneous beams emitted per entity

** the result would be that the sector would be temporarily locked to other members of the faction until the number of factioned owned entities in the sector is reduced. If you tried to enter the sector that is already full you would bounce off the sector boundary.

 

[kulbolen]

as much as i dont like seeing hard limits to sandbox creativity, i think this is by far the most reasonable approach. i also think these limits, while configurable, should be turned on to some averaged out numbers by default, with exception to sector locking.

 

[iAmCodeMonkey]

If this were the case, could we at least be able to "toggle" these limits for single player mode?

 

[alterintel]

If this were the case, could we at least be able to "toggle" these limits for single player mode?

Of course: every single player game still uses server config settings that can be set to accommodate your preferences.

 

[DukeofRealms]

Instead of

I'm all for adding the ability to hard limit StarMade, I don't support hard limits instead of gameplay limits. It's not elegant, it's the easy way out.

+1 for the option additions, -1 to using them default instead of gameplay limits.

 

[alterintel]

I'm all for adding the ability to hard limit StarMade, I don't support hard limits instead of gameplay limits. It's not elegant, it's the easy way out.

+1 for the option additions, -1 to using them default instead of gameplay limits.

I couldn't agree more. I'm only proposing options.

disclaimer: I'm no expert by any means and I'm not at all familiar with the internal workings of the game.
My concern is that sometimes game-play limits can be deceptive and unnecessarily complicated. Where as OPTIONAL server limits are clear, exact, and simple. But it would suck if you're building ship and then when you try to attach a turret it says "number of docked entities has been exceeded"

 

[kulbolen]

i REALLY want to agree that limits are bad... but i have absolutely 0 faith in the games ability (now or with future optimization) to properly render and handle functioning massive builds.

i think hard limits are a detriment to creativity. i also think its totally unrealistic to think the game will ever be in a state where it can actually support the things some people try to do... and those people have no indication from the game that what theyre doing isnt going to work...

 

[AndyP]

From "GameConfigDefault.xml"

    <!-- uncomment and edit the following to have a ruleset on how many groups may be fired at once per computer.
    And how many computers of a type are allowed at a ship
    Exiting entities will not activate that controller if there are too many groups
    Use ID of the controller ('4' is salvage computer in the example)-->
    <!--
    <GroupLimits>
        <Controller>
            <ID>4</ID>
            <GroupMax>30</GroupMax>
        </Controller>
        <Controller>
            <ID>544</ID>
            <ComputerMax>2</ComputerMax>
        </Controller> 
    </GroupLimits>
    -->
    <!-- uncomment and edit the following to have a ruleset on Ship/Station limitaions.
        This will also apply to spawnable blueprints
        use a negative value to ignore (not limit) a dimension
     -->
    <!--
    <MaxDimensionShip>
        <X>100</X>
        <Y>400</Y>
        <Z>-1</Z>
    </MaxDimensionShip>
    <MaxDimensionStation>
        <X>600</X>
        <Y>800</Y>
        <Z>1000</Z>
    </MaxDimensionStation>
    -->
    
    <!-- uncomment and edit the following to have a ruleset on ship sizes
    (existing ships over that size become unusable) If you only need one limitation, remove the one you don't need -->
    <!--
    <ShipLimits>
        <Mass>1000.0</Mass>
        <Blocks>100</Blocks>
    </ShipLimits>
    <PlanetLimits>
        <Mass>50000.0</Mass>
        <Blocks>2000000</Blocks>
    </PlanetLimits>
    <StationLimits>
        <Mass>5000.0</Mass>
        <Blocks>500</Blocks>
    </StationLimits>
    -->

There are already 'some' options to do so.
For Weapon specific limits, like max missiles fired there is a "display limit", but we cannot allow a hardlimit for them, as one side in a battle could exploit it, by spamming missiles to only get theirs through or fired. However, visual limits to skip displaying them are there, to have a quite high, but hardlimit on them.

- Andy

 

[alterintel]

From "GameConfigDefault.xml"


There are already 'some' options to do so.
For Weapon specific limits, like max missiles fired there is a "display limit", but we cannot allow a hardlimit for them, as one side in a battle could exploit it, by spamming missiles to only get theirs through or fired. However, visual limits to skip displaying them are there, to have a quite high, but hardlimit on them.

- Andy

Agreed, that's why I specified a missile limit per entity firing them.

 

[KaRe]

This has some pretty huge problems. First off, what happens if the amount of entities not aligned to a faction becomes too big? And then, what happens if a troll joins your faction and while everyone was mining or something, made enough entities in homebase that the sector becomes locked? No one can come back in, so effectively you have to start over, or wait. You could try kicking the guy that did it, but the ships would still be in your faction. What now?

 

[MacThule]

I'm all for adding the ability to hard limit StarMade, I don't support hard limits instead of gameplay limits. It's not elegant, it's the easy way out.

+1 for the option additions, -1 to using them default instead of gameplay limits.

Totally agree, except that I don't think it's necessarily taking "the easy way out" in the scenario we are in of playing a game still in alpha-stage development.

Your team is still implementing, balancing, and perfecting all the beautiful gameplay solutions, and we are sanguine about that. In the meantime though, we could use as many more "here & now" temporary fix options to significant gameplay issues as possible, so long as they don't totally short-circuit the testing feedback you need.

 

[Valiant70]

Instead of trying to use complicated mechanics and soft limits to limit lag and coincidentally limit creativity as well. I propose the following server config options that should make any instance of Starmade scale-able to any server.

Server config options for hard limits

• number of blocks per entity
• number of docked entities
• number of entities per sector per faction **
• number of factions per sector (not sure about this one)
• number of simultaneous missiles fired per entity
• number of simultaneous cannon rounds fired per entity
• number of simultaneous beams emitted per entity

** the result would be that the sector would be temporarily locked to other members of the faction until the number of factioned owned entities in the sector is reduced. If you tried to enter the sector that is already full you would bounce off the sector boundary.

Sounds like more config settings we should have to help out server owners. Most servers could set most of these quite high or turn them off, but they'd be useful for servers with poor hardware or a player base with bad habits.

 

[NaStral]

More options for server owners and admins are always welcome.

 

[Ciggofwar]

Try getting a better server first one with lots of ram, procedural worlds need lots of ram, a lot of math generation as people fly through sectors, might trigger pirates to spawn than entity moves along, away from the sector. leaving the area absorbing ram up as this done repeatedly, in exploring or shop visiting. Best for 36 gigs + of ram and cleaning of said world often, I notice the AI's will often collide at a destination points , 3 mining ships that are grouped in mine in said area get to the spot and spends the next 15 minutes colliding on a transverse point there all trying to reach, the math that is using up is crazy! Put enough of them in surrounding sectors all doing that, ya math eaters! Battles should be done in an arena area, most of battles are really looking for is ship design against ship design! Factories are not battlegrounds? Server I'm on right now suffers from lag from AI entries in collision as it a timed occurrence of every 15 minutes or so. They need a bigger point of destination of say 50 to 100 meters of hitting this area of a point, there might be a waiting period in seconds while the new course is aligned too, now travel to new point .

 

[Lecic]

number of blocks per entity

This is already an option for server owners to set.

 

[AndyP]

Agreed, that's why I specified a missile limit per entity firing them.

And that is what we did.
You can limit the computer count and module count for any computer, that gives in theory a maximum number of possible missile outputs per entity.

- Andy

 

[alterintel]

And that is what we did.
You can limit the computer count and module count for any computer, that gives in theory a maximum number of possible missile outputs per entity.

- Andy

Awesome!