Latest Dev Video: Going Back to Strip Mined Systems?

[Edymnion]

One thing I noted in the video, he said that if the NPC faction uses up all of the resources there won't be any asteroids when the player gets there.

So I'm rather forced to conclude that we're going back to the bad old days of total strip mining of systems due to lack of respawning resources?

I mean, I know it adds to the whole push to expand and all that, but really? Finite resources were and still are a death clock for a server. Once thats in place, it is only a matter of time before a server dies, or at least has to completely restart from scratch.

Constant expansion means ever bigger files on the server, which means ever increasing degregation of server performance. Even if it doesn't reach that point, you quickly reach the point where new players can't reach unclaimed, unmined out systems. The older the server becomes, the less inviting it will be to new players who simply can't find the resources needed to even reach the outer reaches, much less set up a base.

Everybody pushing their boarders out for more resources, strip mining entire systems before moving on to the next ones... its just a ticking death clock for a server... are we really going back to that?

 

[MrFURB]

I recall that there was some mention of the 'richness' of a system affecting the rate of asteroid generation. I'd imagine that would be a multiplier on either how many asteroids generate, or how long it takes for asteroids to respawn. I don't think that finite resources are going to come back; that lesson's been learned already.

 

[Captain Tankman]

Without any reason to expand there wouldn't be any reason at all to play multiplayer. I mean why do current factions fight? They don't because there's no reason to fight for. No territory, no resources. Making resources actually rare and giving factions a need to expand basicly give a sense to the game.

Sure it will stress servers, but in my eyes that's the way the game will work

 

[Ithirahad]

Without any reason to expand there wouldn't be any reason at all to play multiplayer. I mean why do current factions fight? They don't because there's no reason to fight for. No territory, no resources. Making resources actually rare and giving factions a need to expand basicly give a sense to the game.

Sure it will stress servers, but in my eyes that's the way the game will work

So long as asteroids do regenerate that is fine. If they don't, then it won't "stress" servers - it will kill servers. There is a balance to be struck, but simply removing the asteroid regeneration completely is counterproductive. I mean, aren't we trying to keep people playing the game, not force people to quit because servers are either getting bogged down or running completely out of resources and being forced to reset their universe, destroying everyone's progress?

 

[KiloZulu]

My sense was that the asteroids were only affected in the AI faction-controlled areas. I would hope that rock respawn would resume if they lost control of the system.

 

[aRottenKomquat]

I'm on the fence. On one hand, I like that I can just mine the same asteroid sectors over and over again, and that that prevents resource exhaustion which would make it nearly impossible for new players to join an old server because the starting galaxy would be barren. On the other hand, I also like the concept of being forced to expand away from home in order to continue building up a resource stockpile.

We could slow down the rate of resource regeneration. Maybe a daily or weekly reset where all mined asteroids and planets respawn? That way you'll still need large claims for a giant faction to support very high resource usage, but you won't get a barren, empty, useless galaxy that new players are dumped into with no provisions for getting started.

Or another option is to randomize player starts to a degree. They still begin in the shop at the usual starting sector, but maybe they are given a single-use module that teleports them to a randomly-selected non-void, unclaimed system in the starter galaxy. If that system doesn't exist, then it tries again in the next-most-populated galaxy.

Or create a new permanently-neutral NPC faction based on several systems at the starter shop. Nobody can claim it, and only newbies are allowed to mine there. Some mechanism (faction points, online time, total resources collected, credits, etc.) is used to track newbie status and eventually they must leave the area to continue gathering resources. Also, no combat allowed and no pirates in this area. New players then have a way of getting started even on old, mature servers with huge well-established factions.

 

[Ithirahad]

Slowing down regeneration (perhaps with a per-system rate?) is probably the optimal solution here.

 

[Edymnion]

System richness dictating the respawn rate of asteroids would be good, that would create variety and actually make some systems more desirable than others.

Limited/finite resources just are not acceptable in a game like this though. It would quickly become a case of resource hoarding, followed by a bit of PvP, until it reached the point where no one would risk a fair fight because neither side could afford to lose a ship due to the inability to replace the blocks.

There simply *HAS* to be renewable resources or the game won't function. We've already seen that.

 

[Kingofanime]

System richness dictating the respawn rate of asteroids would be good, that would create variety and actually make some systems more desirable than others.

I like this idea very much.

Also... maybe npc factions shouldn't mine out the last 5% percent of the asteroids in a system... or some kind of minimum amount that they don't bother with. That way they could strip a system down to a certain level and then stop before taking the last couple asteroids. This could leave a few scattered asteroid for new players to find, so they don't end up in the center of trade guild space with nothing to mine.

 

[Tamren Shade]

I also assume that the asteroid regeneration would resume if you booted the NPC faction out of the system. Instead of thinking of the NPC as strip mining a system and leaving it barren, maybe it's best to think of it more as they have a super efficient mining operation going through regularly and vacuuming up the asteroids between rock respawn?

 

[KiloZulu]

To me it seems like a simple mechanic that shows that the NPC faction does mine their system(s), without creating any lag or server burden of having the AI actually plotting courses and mining with ships. Not to mention that the depth of programming that would be necessary to have build and send mining ships out to collect resources would greatly slow down the game's development. Instead, the assumption is that you don't see any asteroids in their sector because they are efficiently mining them, even if you don't see it happening. There again, I hope that the rocks would respawn if the NPC lost control of the system. It seems likely that Schine would address that.

 

[MacThule]

I didn't get anything like the impression that asteroids wouldn't respawn, only that players wouldn't be able to cruise into a NPC-owned system and steal all their roids, because the system will initially load in as "already mined." I saw/heard nothing about ending respawn.

Roids do need to respawn far slower than they do currently... you can currently mine infinitely in one ring even in a ship that pops roids in a few seconds each. They should also respawn more randomly, chaotically; not predictably on a single timer.

 

[Ultragamer2000]

Without any reason to expand there wouldn't be any reason at all to play multiplayer. I mean why do current factions fight? They don't because there's no reason to fight for. No territory, no resources. Making resources actually rare and giving factions a need to expand basicly give a sense to the game.

Sure it will stress servers, but in my eyes that's the way the game will work

Can't people just start mining in different galaxies?

 

[Edymnion]

Can't people just start mining in different galaxies?

Problem there is that the wider ranging people are, the more the server has to keep track of. Shooting off into another galaxy inflates the file sizes of the database MUCH faster than staying in the starter galaxy.

The more galaxies you spread out into, the faster you head towards corrupting the database.

 

[Ultragamer2000]

Problem there is that the wider ranging people are, the more the server has to keep track of. Shooting off into another galaxy inflates the file sizes of the database MUCH faster than staying in the starter galaxy.

The more galaxies you spread out into, the faster you head towards corrupting the database.

So multiple galaxies in multiplayer is utterly useless because the files would corrupt

 

[Edymnion]

So multiple galaxies in multiplayer is utterly useless because the files would corrupt

Its not exactly a "Yes this will always happen" kind of thing, but it does greatly increase the chances of a corruption, yes. The more sectors that are explored/loaded, the larger the save files become. The larger the files become, the longer it takes them to save/load. The longer it takes them to save/load, the wider the window for something to go wrong and screw the pooch.

 

[Ultragamer2000]

Its not exactly a "Yes this will always happen" kind of thing, but it does greatly increase the chances of a corruption, yes. The more sectors that are explored/loaded, the larger the save files become. The larger the files become, the longer it takes them to save/load. The longer it takes them to save/load, the wider the window for something to go wrong and screw the pooch.

Yep we need material regen
(a balanced one)

 

[therimmer96]

Its not exactly a "Yes this will always happen" kind of thing, but it does greatly increase the chances of a corruption, yes. The more sectors that are explored/loaded, the larger the save files become. The larger the files become, the longer it takes them to save/load. The longer it takes them to save/load, the wider the window for something to go wrong and screw the pooch.

Wat?

No.

The starmade universe is not a single file. It's lots of files, with atleast 2 for each ship/station. Only the files that have actually been changed since the last autosave are saved to the database, and so no, a larger world does not increase the risk of corruption, because only files that need to be changed are changed.

 

[godmars]

One thing I noted in the video, he said that if the NPC faction uses up all of the resources there won't be any asteroids when the player gets there.

So I'm rather forced to conclude that we're going back to the bad old days of total strip mining of systems due to lack of respawning resources?

i think you're taking them way too literally.
even if an AI mined everything, per that video you could still trade with them for whatever it is you wanted, anyway

 

[Madman198237]

I'm sure someone's mentioned this already in this thread, but:
No, finite resources are clearly not coming back. But IF during the last galaxy "turn" a faction strip-mined a sector/system, then you would find for some length of time nothing in that sector or, in extreme cases, that system. That's not to say you wouldn't find any resources later, but you would not find resources now. Give the zero-point energy a bit of time to build up again, alright? E = M * C^2, alright? The speed of light squared times mass is a lot!