- Joined
- Sep 4, 2013
- Messages
- 1,317
- Reaction score
- 185
JUST TO CLARIFY, THIS SPECIFICALLY APPLIES TO DISINTERGRATOR/ WARHEAD VS STATION. WARHEAD VS SHIP IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT MATTER I WILL NOT DISCUSS AS THIS THREAD EXISTS
Buff warhead damage/radius poll
-----
An observation on using Disintergrators on multi-player servers, it's effects, and potential consequences on gameplay (dependent on server).
Disintegrators as a block have a few unique traits.
- It explodes when touching something
- It ignores shields to deal damage directly to blocks
- It is a block, and cannot be fired save for complicated logic systems
-----------
Disintergrators used in ship to ship combat is rare, as both ship can move. A sufficiently long stick of disintergrators are capable of engaging enemy ships by "whacking it like a sword". Although larger ships arent as affected due to powerful swarm missiles, smaller ships can suffer massive damage from such a "whack".
Of course, since both ships can "move", being hit is a matter of being outplayed, bad luck, or both. It is a balanced weapon in this regard.
------------
Disintergrators are most useful in cloaking vessel which may close the distance with an enemy ship to ram, deal damage to crucial systems and leave.
Cloakers are countered by scanners on any ships, and swarm missiles. The presence of the disintergrator merely makes it more effective against an enemy capital ship, which should have been escorted anyhow and therefore, there are no balance issue between cloakers, disintergrators and ships. All of which can counter each other reliably by moving, returning fire, or scanning.
------------
To sum up, I believe no changes should be made to cloakers, disintergrators against ships, or ships.
------------
The main issue I have observed are the effectiveness of Disintergrators against targets which cannot move, and in particular, stations. There are a few issues.
1 - Usage of disintergrators does not trigger hostile action
2 - Stations cannot evade
3 - Stations cannot scan (Unsure if logic can activate it)
Normally, a ship firing at a station will face return fire from the enemy station's turrets after triggering a declaration of war. Therefore, ship and station can mutually counter each other dependent on their design, mass, etc.
A disintergrator block does not trigger hostile action, and thus, a neutral party can in theory repetitively ram a hostile station with disintergrator blocks without triggering hostile action, regardless of cloak or jam.
This issue becomes more complicated when the target is also capable of Jamming and Cloaking. The station, as stated in issue 3, cannot scan, nor can it evade an enemy disintergrator "stick". It relies on usually above average shielding to defend against hostile gunfire which is then ignored by the traits of the disintergrator.
Disintegrator as a double edged weapon can be avoided simply by adding a 100m long stick away from the main section of the ship using power reactors, which means explosions will not uncloak, or unjam, and otherwise damage the attacking ship.
All of this combined meant, a station can be damaged, turrets undocked, etc by a ship of significantly smaller size with complete impunity if one can invest the time while the enemy is offline. While completely destroying a station is almost impossible, disintergrator prods can, and definitely will undock almost all turrets if the attacker are aware of them and are actively doing so, and leave the station vulnerable to any further hostile action.
--------------
TL: DR:
Disintergrators ignore shields, does not war dec, and can be spammed by a cloaker against a target (Station) that cannot dodge or scan while it's owners are offline. It is unbalanced to have a ship of significantly lower cost, mass to have such a significant impact so as to make non homebased station unusable.
This observation is from BitMinery, where inverted server config meant "systems must be claimed to gain faction points", and the lack thereof results in your homebase defence becoming vulnerable. Although BitMinery necessitates stations outside of homebase, the results here apply to all servers's un-homebased stations.
---------------
I have a suggestion to solve this issue.
Regardless of any options - Disintergrators automatically war dec based on the previous pilot of the core.
1 - Stations automatically use their scanners as soon as cool down is over (So stations auto scan
without logics)
2- Disintergrators are unable to damage stations and it's docked entities (No effect on disintergrator vs ships which are undocked)
3) Disintergrators cannot be used alongside a cloaker. (Jammer already loses effectiveness at
close range, so a jamming vessel can still sneak up and attack from a blindspot, but they are no
longer completely invulnerable to turrets)
---
Was hoping I can see who voted what, but nope.avi
Buff warhead damage/radius poll
-----
An observation on using Disintergrators on multi-player servers, it's effects, and potential consequences on gameplay (dependent on server).
Disintegrators as a block have a few unique traits.
- It explodes when touching something
- It ignores shields to deal damage directly to blocks
- It is a block, and cannot be fired save for complicated logic systems
-----------
Disintergrators used in ship to ship combat is rare, as both ship can move. A sufficiently long stick of disintergrators are capable of engaging enemy ships by "whacking it like a sword". Although larger ships arent as affected due to powerful swarm missiles, smaller ships can suffer massive damage from such a "whack".
Of course, since both ships can "move", being hit is a matter of being outplayed, bad luck, or both. It is a balanced weapon in this regard.
------------
Disintergrators are most useful in cloaking vessel which may close the distance with an enemy ship to ram, deal damage to crucial systems and leave.
Cloakers are countered by scanners on any ships, and swarm missiles. The presence of the disintergrator merely makes it more effective against an enemy capital ship, which should have been escorted anyhow and therefore, there are no balance issue between cloakers, disintergrators and ships. All of which can counter each other reliably by moving, returning fire, or scanning.
------------
To sum up, I believe no changes should be made to cloakers, disintergrators against ships, or ships.
------------
The main issue I have observed are the effectiveness of Disintergrators against targets which cannot move, and in particular, stations. There are a few issues.
1 - Usage of disintergrators does not trigger hostile action
2 - Stations cannot evade
3 - Stations cannot scan (Unsure if logic can activate it)
Normally, a ship firing at a station will face return fire from the enemy station's turrets after triggering a declaration of war. Therefore, ship and station can mutually counter each other dependent on their design, mass, etc.
A disintergrator block does not trigger hostile action, and thus, a neutral party can in theory repetitively ram a hostile station with disintergrator blocks without triggering hostile action, regardless of cloak or jam.
This issue becomes more complicated when the target is also capable of Jamming and Cloaking. The station, as stated in issue 3, cannot scan, nor can it evade an enemy disintergrator "stick". It relies on usually above average shielding to defend against hostile gunfire which is then ignored by the traits of the disintergrator.
Disintegrator as a double edged weapon can be avoided simply by adding a 100m long stick away from the main section of the ship using power reactors, which means explosions will not uncloak, or unjam, and otherwise damage the attacking ship.
All of this combined meant, a station can be damaged, turrets undocked, etc by a ship of significantly smaller size with complete impunity if one can invest the time while the enemy is offline. While completely destroying a station is almost impossible, disintergrator prods can, and definitely will undock almost all turrets if the attacker are aware of them and are actively doing so, and leave the station vulnerable to any further hostile action.
--------------
TL: DR:
Disintergrators ignore shields, does not war dec, and can be spammed by a cloaker against a target (Station) that cannot dodge or scan while it's owners are offline. It is unbalanced to have a ship of significantly lower cost, mass to have such a significant impact so as to make non homebased station unusable.
This observation is from BitMinery, where inverted server config meant "systems must be claimed to gain faction points", and the lack thereof results in your homebase defence becoming vulnerable. Although BitMinery necessitates stations outside of homebase, the results here apply to all servers's un-homebased stations.
---------------
I have a suggestion to solve this issue.
Regardless of any options - Disintergrators automatically war dec based on the previous pilot of the core.
1 - Stations automatically use their scanners as soon as cool down is over (So stations auto scan
without logics)
2- Disintergrators are unable to damage stations and it's docked entities (No effect on disintergrator vs ships which are undocked)
3) Disintergrators cannot be used alongside a cloaker. (Jammer already loses effectiveness at
close range, so a jamming vessel can still sneak up and attack from a blindspot, but they are no
longer completely invulnerable to turrets)
---
Was hoping I can see who voted what, but nope.avi
Last edited:
