Recognized Flak weapons

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    How is a rapidfire midrange machine cannon have the same feel as an alpha strike cruise missile, or a multistaged logic'd Sajuuk(Homeworld 2) style beam destroyer? Yes the secondaries can make some of them sometimes the same, but the things you can use them for are very diverse and creative.
    I realize there are different weapons. Other then these 16 options there is very little to make a weapon be distinct in its use. Effects can change the end result of the weapon firing Considering the infinite number of ship possibilities it seems a bit limiting to me. They can be used for a multitude of things but they don't have any characteristics besides range, damage, ROF, AOE, and natural effect. I'm saying maybe more traits that allow for more unique feeling combat.
     
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    I maybe should start another thread to clarify exactly what I mean by feel but I don't really mean that we need to change the weapons too much they just need to have more ways to customize how they fire. Multistage with logic is still kind of gimmicky but eventually I would like that amount control and still be able to fire the weapon normally.

    Here are a few examples of what I mean :
    Cc would for instance could have spread when it fire
    Bp could do a DOT to unshielded blocks on the edge of its radius
    Different missiles can have different acceleration patterns

    Having a charge up mechanic for weapons and adding a flak cannon seems like a step in the right direction.
     
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    Perhaps some sort of firing delay on certain weapons, as if certain combinations are slow to fire, yet more powerful.

    Just thinking on feel.

    The idea being that if you make a nuke, it will take some time to actually fire. Make some combination of cannon and secondary/tertiary, and it's a railgun, which is slow to fire (Charging the system/final prep for firing) but faster and powerful.
     
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    I can see the point on the similarity of cannons to railguns as I can't think of a railgun as much else besides a cannon, but not necessarily plasma/missile or wave/beam.
    Just judging by what the terms bring to mind on a whim a wave as opposed to a beam would be a <) shaped "projectile" that expands (and weakens in intensity) over distance. With that I can see creating weapons for slicing ships in half, dismembering turrets. Like taking an axe to them instead of a spear point. That's a use. The shape of the wave weapon could be defined by its secondary. Say a wide circular AOE pattern and high damage and reload from a pulse as opposed to a narrow crescent and longer reach from a beam. Thin, weaker waves in quick succession from cannons. Missile -> extremely wide crescent, covering 45* in front of the weapon, oriented vertically but narrow horizontally. A battleaxe for dismembering an opponent.
    You can turn plasma into a DOT projectile weapon which disrupts waves (and waves cancel out incoming plasma spheres (Has anyone tried using missile spam to defend against high-yield cannon shots yet? I coulda sworn intercepting a missile likewise destroys the cannon round, although it's quite hard to tell.)). Using it with push/pull/stop and EMP effects gives you a way to lock down a target with a quick shot that spreads its effect out over a few seconds, instead of dumping it in the instant and letting them recover. A plasma/missile could be used to affect armor in an expanding radius around a point of impact (very good for making wide holes your bombers and missiles can exploit!) while a plasma-pulse burns deep into a target over the course of its duration.

    We DO have more than four options here, guys. Use yer imaginations, dammit.

    I would really like to see this flak weapon come to pass, actually.
     
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    Lecic

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    Just judging by what the terms bring to mind on a whim a wave as opposed to a beam would be a <) shaped "projectile" that expands (and weakens in intensity) over distance. With that I can see creating weapons for slicing ships in half, dismembering turrets. Like taking an axe to them instead of a spear point. That's a use. The shape of the wave weapon could be defined by its secondary. Say a wide circular AOE pattern and high damage and reload from a pulse as opposed to a narrow crescent and longer reach from a beam. Thin, weaker waves in quick succession from cannons. Missile -> extremely wide crescent, covering 45* in front of the weapon, oriented vertically but narrow horizontally. A battleaxe for dismembering an opponent.
    I've seen suggestions to replace pulse with something like this, which would certainly be a lot better than the current.

    You can turn plasma into a DOT projectile weapon which disrupts waves (and waves cancel out incoming plasma spheres (Has anyone tried using missile spam to defend against high-yield cannon shots yet? I coulda sworn intercepting a missile likewise destroys the cannon round, although it's quite hard to tell.)). Using it with push/pull/stop and EMP effects gives you a way to lock down a target with a quick shot that spreads its effect out over a few seconds, instead of dumping it in the instant and letting them recover. A plasma/missile could be used to affect armor in an expanding radius around a point of impact (very good for making wide holes your bombers and missiles can exploit!) while a plasma-pulse burns deep into a target over the course of its duration.
    I don't really see what advantage DOT has over instant damage for block destruction.
     
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    An advantage that a DOT would have would be when a targets shields drop you fire your DOT weapon. When the shields come back up the DOT is still ticking on the blocks.
     
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    Has anyone tried using missile spam to defend against high-yield cannon shots yet?
    \:eek:/ the missile PD turrets! We need more of this! Thats such a good idea.
    I can see the point on the similarity of cannons to railguns as I can't think of a railgun as much else besides a cannon, but not necessarily plasma/missile or wave/beam.
    Just judging by what the terms bring to mind on a whim a wave as opposed to a beam would be a <) shaped "projectile" that expands (and weakens in intensity) over distance. With that I can see creating weapons for slicing ships in half, dismembering turrets. Like taking an axe to them instead of a spear point. That's a use. The shape of the wave weapon could be defined by its secondary. Say a wide circular AOE pattern and high damage and reload from a pulse as opposed to a narrow crescent and longer reach from a beam. Thin, weaker waves in quick succession from cannons. Missile -> extremely wide crescent, covering 45* in front of the weapon, oriented vertically but narrow horizontally. A battleaxe for dismembering an opponent.
    You can turn plasma into a DOT projectile weapon which disrupts waves (and waves cancel out incoming plasma spheres (Has anyone tried using missile spam to defend against high-yield cannon shots yet? I coulda sworn intercepting a missile likewise destroys the cannon round, although it's quite hard to tell.)). Using it with push/pull/stop and EMP effects gives you a way to lock down a target with a quick shot that spreads its effect out over a few seconds, instead of dumping it in the instant and letting them recover. A plasma/missile could be used to affect armor in an expanding radius around a point of impact (very good for making wide holes your bombers and missiles can exploit!) while a plasma-pulse burns deep into a target over the course of its duration.

    We DO have more than four options here, guys. Use yer imaginations, dammit.

    I would really like to see this flak weapon come to pass, actually.
    Ah. Thanks for that eye opener. I guess the options are a lot more different that I first thought.
    I've seen suggestions to replace pulse with something like this, which would certainly be a lot better than the current.
    I've seen ideas that pulse would fire a sphere shot that would be similar to a damage cloud too. Pulse needs to be reworked almost to the amount that it's less complete than nonexistant flack.
    I've seen suggestions to replace pulse with something like this, which would certainly be a lot better than the current.



    I don't really see what advantage DOT has over instant damage for block destruction.
    I don't really see what advantage DOT has over instant damage for block destruction.
    By lowering the alpha dps you can increase fire rate, make it stacking, and turn it into a great seige weapon, and is awsome at hit and run attacks. DOT has many uses.
     

    Lukwan

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    An advantage that a DOT would have would be when a targets shields drop you fire your DOT weapon. When the shields come back up the DOT is still ticking on the blocks.
    Yes! DOT Slime Weapons. (Acid Weapons)

    potential temporary FX: (for target)
    -Reduced visibility.
    -Erratic thrusters.
    -Bonus damage.
    -Loss of radar-map.
    -Loss of missile-lock.
    -Stuck plex-doors.
     
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    Lecic

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    potential temporary FX: (for target)
    -Reduced visibility.
    -Erratic thrusters.
    -Bonus damage.
    -Loss of radar-map.
    -Loss of missile-lock.
    -Stuck plex-doors.
    Wow, that totally doesn't sound incredibly obnoxious and abuseable.
     

    Lukwan

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    Wow, that totally doesn't sound incredibly obnoxious and abuseable.
    To be clear, I had intended for the targeting weapon to roll-the-dice to select just one effect (randomly) for each hit and the effects would have be localized near the hit (where applicable) and temporary in all cases. So yes, a little annoying is OK so long as not OP or abusable. I'm just trying to capture the feel of SF ship battles where there are unique system problems and not just standing toe-to-toe slugging each other into submission.
     

    Lecic

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    To be clear, I had intended for the targeting weapon to roll-the-dice to select just one effect (randomly) for each hit and the effects would have be localized near the hit (where applicable) and temporary in all cases. So yes, a little annoying is OK so long as not OP or abusable. I'm just trying to capture the feel of SF ship battles where there are unique system problems and not just standing toe-to-toe slugging each other into submission.
    Yeah, it's not like I wouldn't need a few dozen tiny slime launching turrets to make anyone's life a living hell. This is just as abusable as push pulse and skoomdrones were.
     

    Lukwan

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    Yeah, it's not like I wouldn't need a few dozen tiny slime launching turrets to make anyone's life a living hell. This is just as abusable as push pulse and skoomdrones were.
    I know you are a champion of the boarding party. I too would like to see this become more viable. The biggest deal-breaker for this is overpowered and exploitable internal weapon systems. Schine needs to address this with the 'interior/quarters' update before we will have a mechanic that can be tweaked to balance boarding. If nerfed anti-personnel turrets are not introduced then they should eliminated from interiors. Also Ship weapons could be made so that they do no damage to 'internal' targets...only 'external.

    Also forgive my ignorance, but could you elaborate on skoomdrones?
     

    Lecic

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    Also forgive my ignorance, but could you elaborate on skoomdrones?
    Push pulse used to be able to lock up thrust and rotation no matter the size of the ship using it. This resulted in the creation of tiny ramming drones that would permanently lock up ships, dubbed "skoomdrones."
     
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    Was that before or after Stop effect was super-mega OP and a small rapid fire Stop cannon could reduce a capital ship to a crawl?
     

    Thalanor

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    Skoomdrones were a thing until quite some time after that. A substantial part of the drone R&D thread was busy with their refinement for weeks if not months.
     
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    The minelayer was not scrapped. It was put on indefinite hold and then something new took it's place. Then put on indefinite hold again.

    Anyway, your idea is good. I will keep the suggestion archived incase we ever come back to it.
    So there are no current plans to improve/add to weaponry:? But if Schema feels like it some maybe get thrown in:?
    Thanks for letting us know!