[VOTE] Should voting for Councilors require you to purchase the game?

[Master_Artificer]

Ever heard of statistics and margin of error?
The minimum recommended size of any survey can be 50 people easy..
which gives us a margin of error of only 4.5% even if there was a bigger sample size.

Imagination01 's point he is trying to make is that you cannot take this poll as a poll, so therefore you cannot use this for statistics no matter how big you set the margin of error to be. To him it is just 54 peoples opinion, and 37 of them "do not speak for the community as a whole".

I guess he thinks those 37 people is 'Lecic and gang of ne'er-do-wellers' , despite the fact that there is less than a dozen people in Thryn alone, and I being one of them voted for dukes system. Obviously it is more than just 'one factions opinion', and the majority of the random people who visited this thread thought that it would be the best solution...

I dunno, he's grasping at straws at this point so I will ask for his counterpoint and we will go from there. Maybe asking in the general discussion for people to vote in this thread, and periodically going to the chat and posting this threads link and asking the people there what they think?
Going to servers and asking people playing in them to contribute?

 

[Aynslei]

No It doesn't, it gives an idea of the opinions of 50 or so people

Besides, a decision like this is more than just a forum decision, you would have a very different result if banned players were allowed to vote, but then again "Their opinions don't matter! They are not active on the forums! They should have no say on this!"

There is much more than 50 people who use this forum
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Duke did say that the poll was just to show schine interest on the subject like you said, but the more accurate the poll is to the actual communities opinion the better, the current poll is basicly everyone who has brought the game voting yes, I know a lot of the community has brought the game, but not 68.5% of the entire community of registered players

Well one of the 4 that voted no just changed their mind, so until more people decide to vote the community is saying voting should require owning the game. No if ands or buts about that, if more of the community would be so majorly opposed to this we would see more resistance.

Except the fact that the Council is only relevant on the forum, is decided by this forum, and acts on this forum; so I don't see how this does not qualify as a forum decision.

Roflmao, BANNED members of this community are just that, banned. They misbehaved and are punished as such, they forsake their right to representation and involvement in this community by violation of the rules. Should they feel bad for that they may apply for an appeal if that is denied they clearly should not be part of the community.

I would love to see you justify why a banned member should be allowed to have a say in the community when they were removed from for having a negative impact on it.

 

[kiraen]

While I think that this is a representative cross section, it's just not a big enough one yet. At the time I am writing this we have 54 votes out of 231,237 forum members. We'd need just over 2.3k votes to get 1%. I'm not saying we need that many, but we need more then we have.

As for posting this else where and spreading the word, don't. It's very easy to see this thread is active. Every time I log in I see the Council forum has new posts. If Schine really wants to expand this into an official community vote, they can put it on the launcher.

My conclusion from this data: While most of those that care want limitations, most people just don't care.

 

[Aynslei]

My conclusion from this data: While most of those that care want limitations, most people just don't care.

I do agree with those that say this number is too small to make any judgment.
That last line of yours is I think one of the most accurate statements shared so far.

It seems the community just does not care that much, and the ones that do care to share their opinion have spoken.

 

[Amadeus]

I do agree with those that say this number is too small to make any judgment.
That last line of yours is I think one of the most accurate statements shared so far.

It seems the community just does not care that much, and the ones that do care to share their opinion have spoken.

I tend to just stay back and read, it's quite entertaining! Most of the time people like me don't post it's because someone else has already said something that we agree on. With that being said I'm going to vote now.

 

[Imagination01]

I would love to see you justify why a banned member should be allowed to have a say in the community when they were removed from for having a negative impact on it.

Duke himself said banned players were able to vote in the election, if they shouldn't be allowed to have a say, then you would think that Schine would just blanket ban forum banned users.

considering banned forum users were still allowed to vote. Nothing from the forum was taken into consideration when determining if a user was able to vote in the previous election

Also, as Lecic said the council represents ALL members, so how come just because you misbehaved on one of the services operated on behalf of Schine, means you should not be allowed to have a say in its future, I am pretty sure the people who were banned from the forums in my faction still play the game, and therefore they still care about it.

 

[Aynslei]

Duke himself said banned players were able to vote in the election, if they shouldn't be allowed to have a say, then you would think that Schine would just blanket ban forum banned users.



Also, as Lecic said the council represents ALL members, so how come just because you misbehaved on one of the services operated on behalf of Schine, means you should not be allowed to have a say in its future, I am pretty sure the people who were banned from the forums in my faction still play the game, and therefore they still care about it.

If they cared about the community their past actions have not shown that. I have no shame in saying they don't deserve to have a say in this debate.

 

[Imagination01]

If they cared about the community their past actions have not show that. I have no shame in saying they don't deserve to have a say in this debate.

I am pretty sure if someone like say... SkylordLuke got banned, he would still care about the community and probably find another means of uploading his ships and stuff.

You are basicly stereotyping that every user who is perma-banned from the forums, will not longer care about the game.

 

[Aynslei]

I am pretty sure if someone like say... SkylordLuke got banned, he would still care about the community and probably find another means of uploading his ships and stuff.

You are basicly stereotyping that every user who is perma-banned from the forums, will not longer care about the game.

You seemed to have assumed I meant voting for the council, when all I stated was that banned members should, as the nature of being banned, not have a say in this discussion. You have yet to justify why they should. Your desired version of the points system would limit their ability to vote in the elections more than anything I have said.

If they want to be apart of the community they seek an appeal and atone for their actions, as people have in the past regained membership in this community. I don't see how letting banned members have say in this discussion would lead to such an overwhelming number of votes against this system. Unless you mean to tell me there are that many people banned on your side of this debate.

 

[Imagination01]

You seemed to have assumed I meant voting for the council, when all I stated was that banned members should, as the nature of being banned, not have a say in this discussion. You have yet to justify why they should. Your desired version of the points system would limit their ability to vote in the elections more than anything I have said.

If they want to be apart of the community they seek an appeal and atone for their actions, as people have in the past regained membership in this community. I don't see how letting banned members have say in this discussion would lead to such an overwhelming number of votes against this system. Unless you mean to tell me there are that many people banned on your side of this debate.

No.. you seem to have assumed that I assumed I meant that, If banned players were able to vote on previous election, then clearly they should have a say in this, banned players are part of the community as well, I know most of the people in Odium who, one way or another got banned still actively play this game, when they, according to people like you, should "not care about the game anymore or where it goes" there are well over 50+ people in Vaygr alone, and most of them will vote No.

 

[DukeofRealms]

If you want then feel free. The vote itself is non-binding to begin with, just to show schine that there is interest in this course of action. Ultimately schine itself will make a choice as to if they want to implement this or a similar system

This ^

We're not really looking at the separate results of the poll; it's more to see that there is interest. The poll won't affect if the system will change or how it will change. That's up for the rest of my team to decide on What's more valuable to us is the arguments made in this thread.

At the end of the day, Schine is in the best position to determine which system should be implemented (if any). We have all the voting and account data to assist us with a decision.

 

[Master_Artificer]

Also, as Lecic said the council represents ALL members, so how come just because you misbehaved on one of the services operated on behalf of Schine, means you should not be allowed to have a say in its future, I am pretty sure the people who were banned from the forums in my faction still play the game, and therefore they still care about it.

No im pretty sure your the person that beats the "council represents all members" drum, buddy.

 

[kiraen]

I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US if you go to prison you lose the right vote.

 

[Master_Artificer]

I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US if you go to prison you lose the right vote.

The US also imprisons a lot of people compaired to other countries

 

[FlyingDebris]

The way I look at it, if you got yourself banned (Especially in the manner of the people Imagination01's vouching for) you don't deserve to have your vote count in a council election.

 

[Lecic]

I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US if you go to prison you lose the right vote.

Which is a bad system.

People in the US who go to jail still live in the country, and should still have the right to vote. The same applies to Starmade. Even though you are banned from the FORUMS, you are still part of the community and still play the game, so you still deserve a vote.

 

[Aynslei]

I just want to point out that felony disenfranchisement in the US is a pretty complex topic, you are not going to lose all rights to vote just for going to jail. It depends on the severity of the crime and in what state you got convicted of that crime. Its also rarely a permanent thing unless you did something horrific.

I still seriously doubt that if banned people had a say in this debate it would do any good representing your point of view Imagination01
That said, they had the ability to vote last time, and the topic at hand is between the points system and owner system.
Points would make it significantly harder for them to vote in the elections, while the owner option would let them vote reliably yet you speak out against it.

 

[FlyingDebris]

Even with duke's point system, that bunch has to have accumulated something on the order of a couple hundred negative points by now.

 

[UndeadPotato]

I'm curious to know what peoples' worst case scenarios are for this. A bunch of councilors who do nothing? Or do they think they will have a lasting negative impact on development?

As far as I know, the council's job is to tell Schine what's being discussed, award badges (sporadically) and tag suggestions so that people know someone big has read them. Other than that I've not heard of real authority given to them. They can't harm the game for long because several devs come here still such as Lancake and Bench, who would be able to tell if they're being lied to.

As for inactivity, I'm not sure what they've actually done this term besides tag suggestions. They haven't made a thread on the council subforum to inquire or inform the community in nearly a year. If I wanted to know what they're up to I'd either have to follow them and check every post to see if it's news, look at the list you get when you click on a tag, or happen to view the chatroom when they talk about their actions.

What more could come from a bunch of alts skewing the polls than an inconvenience to some of the Schine members who have to pick new councilors?

 

[Lecic]

I'm curious to know what peoples' worst case scenarios are for this. A bunch of councilors who do nothing? Or do they think they will have a lasting negative impact on development?

As far as I know, the council's job is to tell Schine what's being discussed, award badges (sporadically) and tag suggestions so that people know someone big has read them. Other than that I've not heard of real authority given to them. They can't harm the game for long because several devs come here still such as Lancake and Bench, who would be able to tell if they're being lied to.

As for inactivity, I'm not sure what they've actually done this term besides tag suggestions. They haven't made a thread on the council subforum to inquire or inform the community in nearly a year. If I wanted to know what they're up to I'd either have to follow them and check every post to see if it's news, look at the list you get when you click on a tag, or happen to view the chatroom when they talk about their actions.

What more could come from a bunch of alts skewing the polls than an inconvenience to some of the Schine members who have to pick new councilors?

If people are able to rig the elections with alts, there shouldn't even be elections. Just have Schine pick the Councilors, if a fair election isn't important.

The election is not important because it has a major effect on the future of the game- It's important because it keeps players involved, makes them feel like they can have an effect on the development of the game, like they can get Schine to really listen to their ideas. If you make it so the actual players voting doesn't matter, just whoever can build up the most alts, do you think players are going to feel like they matter as much? Do you think players who think they don't matter stick around long?