[VOTE] Should voting for Councilors require you to purchase the game?

[UndeadPotato]

If people are able to rig the elections with alts, there shouldn't even be elections. Just have Schine pick the Councilors, if a fair election isn't important.

The election is not important because it has a major effect on the future of the game- It's important because it keeps players involved, makes them feel like they can have an effect on the development of the game, like they can get Schine to really listen to their ideas. If you make it so the actual players voting doesn't matter, just whoever can build up the most alts, do you think players are going to feel like they matter as much? Do you think players who think they don't matter stick around long?

It matters as much as the council keeping us updated so we know we are actually being represented. Sticking a tag on my suggestion and never updating the community at large won't make me feel like I have a lasting impact, it makes me feel like they're patting me on the head and moving on.

 

[Aynslei]

It matters as much as the council keeping us updated so we know we are actually being represented. Sticking a tag on my suggestion and never updating the community at large won't make me feel like I have a lasting impact, it makes me feel like they're patting me on the head and moving on.

"so we know we are actually being represented" So wouldn't you agree that making sure the person you desired to represent you had every fair chance of being elected?
If one is elected by alts it means one group is being over represented even though it represents such a rather insignificant portion of the community. While that one elected by alts removes the chances for several other demographics fair chances of representation.
If multiple candidates are being voted in by alts it further limits the demographic represented by the council. (Which is the entire reason of the council and the way it was implemented to elect them)

If you don't much care who represents you, just the fact that you are represented voting should not even matter.

You specifically asked my fear of an alt rigged election? The entire opening event of the first council. (Enough said at this point)
Now just imagine the situation playing out with someone with far less care/respect for the system and community.

 

[UndeadPotato]

"so we know we are actually being represented" So wouldn't you agree that making sure the person you desired to represent you had every fair chance of being elected?
If one is elected by alts it means one group is being over represented even though it represents such a rather insignificant portion of the community. While that one elected by alts removes the chances for several other demographics fair chances of representation.
If multiple candidates are being voted in by alts it further limits the demographic represented by the council. (Which is the entire reason of the council and the way it was implemented to elect them)

If you don't much care who represents you, just the fact that you are represented voting should not even matter.

You specifically asked my fear of an alt rigged election? The entire opening event of the first council. (Enough said at this point)
Now just imagine the situation playing out with someone with far less care/respect for the system and community.

I'm not against having a system to secure the validity of the votes. I was just wondering what people thought would happen if we continued to not have such a system. The second comment was talking about how even if the councilors we want get voted in, we still have nothing to make sure they actually do their job. Without such accountability there is no way to make sure the council that is voted in will actually represent us.

As for the beginning of the first election, from what I remember that wasn't a matter of over representation, but rather that someone who was elected didn't hold up to what they promised. That would still happen if we restrict voting in ways discussed here, and isn't what this thread is about.

 

[Aynslei]

As for the beginning of the first election, from what I remember that wasn't a matter of over representation, but rather that someone who was elected didn't hold up to what they promised. That would still happen if we restrict voting in ways discussed here, and isn't what this thread is about.

It was my main concern when advocating for these changes. Please take note of the following line to see why it was a part of this thread for me.
"Now just imagine the situation playing out with someone with far less care/respect for the system and community."
If someone actually wanted to do damage to the publicity of this game, it could easily be done from a council position, I don't want that.

As for your concerns about accountability anyone not conforming or performing to the standards you expect should not earn your vote in the next elections. If you don't think the councilors are being vocal enough ask them to be vocal now or lose your support in the coming election.

That said I would like to see more feedback from the council side of things if permitted, to know exactly what they pushed for and so on.

Back on the topic at hand the following council elections will require owning the game to vote, I am very interested to see how this plays out in regards to representing the community.

 

[Blaza612]

The thing is, I'm poor, I simply do not have the funds to purchase the game, so I must vote for the points system. :p

Yes, I would buy the game if I could :p

 

[Ghent96]

No.

Period. There are far more free2players than payers in SM, and their voices and opinions are equally valid and valueable.

If you're worried about fake votes, there are a variety of other ways to secure the voting process besides going "P2V". Plus, if someone were so motivated, they could just buy a bunch SM keys and still rig the vote. Dig deep everyone! Schine must want you to buy your council, too. The perpetual Alpha must be funded!

PS - currently, there are 55 "yes" votes. We'd better see at least 55 votes in the council election, or... #epicfail.
PSS - there are still just under a thousand that play online, so... where.. are... their... voices? ;p We have ~5% represented so far.

 

[Lecic]

No.

Period. There are far more free2players than payers in SM, and their voices and opinions are equally valid and valueable.

If you're worried about fake votes, there are a variety of other ways to secure the voting process besides going "P2V". Plus, if someone were so motivated, they could just buy a bunch SM keys and still rig the vote. Dig deep everyone! Schine must want you to buy your council, too. The perpetual Alpha must be funded!

There is no limitation system that cannot be gotten around if you allow free accounts to vote. However, if you make it require a paid account, it's expensive to rig the vote, and it will only become increasingly expensive as the game rises in price and the community grows in size. I doubt most people can afford or care enough to buy 30, 50, 100, 1000 accounts necessary to rig the election of a council for a lego space game. When you can do it for free, though, rigging would ALWAYS be a concern, even far into the game's future.

 

[Ghent96]

There is no limitation system that cannot be gotten around if you allow free accounts to vote. However, if you make it require a paid account, it's expensive to rig the vote, and it will only become increasingly expensive as the game rises in price and the community grows in size. I doubt most people can afford or care enough to buy 30, 50, 100, 1000 accounts necessary to rig the election of a council for a lego space game. When you can do it for free, though, rigging would ALWAYS be a concern, even far into the game's future.

1000...

lul, as if.

 

[FlyingDebris]

1000...

lul, as if.

You'd be surprised as to how much effort some people put into fucking up things related to the forums.

 

[Ghent96]

...clearly, it escapes you, so I will be direct and succinct:

There will never be even close to 1000 people voting in a council election. As of thus far, even 10 votes would "rig" it pretty well. ;P

 

[FlyingDebris]

Therein lies the problem. A player I know had previously decided that they were going to use altspam to rig the upcoming election to elect an alt of themselves for the sole purpose of proving that the system was flawed- something they could have done with incredible ease, had they not gone ahead and made it pay to vote. Needless to say, they (quite happily, might I add) decided not to since at that point rigging the election would cost them money.

Also as to your point about ~5% of the population participating in this survey, even the low end of the margin of error given the total sample size is still well above a majority. Now, kindly stop being so rude and condescending when the vast majority of people involved in the thread are arguing against your stance.

 

[Lecic]

There will never be even close to 1000 people voting in a council election. As of thus far, even 10 votes would "rig" it pretty well. ;P

What, do you have a time machine or something?

 

[Croquelune]

Duke's system best.

At 10€ the game, a tard golden boy could easely fraud if he really want and then just re-sell the accounts at 7-8€.

Duke's system means spent time to share with community, only truly motivated troll could pass that.
Wikipedia use a system a bit alike Duke's system, result 95% of the obvious troll aren't enought determined to pursue, 4,9% pass but get caught few time later (few hours/days/weeks), the last 0,1% are the subtil/disguised troll and the true problem. It take month of investigations to demasked them ; they are like determined terrorrist you can't do anything but watch them and waiting a suspect behaviour until they blow themselves somewhere where it causes lot of damage.
If some vicious peoples I met over there could make a donation to freely fucked up Wikipedia, trust me, they'll do it. It'll same here.
Duke's system have the advantage to test their patiences, asked them to be wise during a time, and that it's really hard for troll, more than put 50$ in system to fuck it up.

 

[Nauvran]

Best way to find out what's best is to simply try it out, we are already using the payment method so we can switch to point system at the next election and then gather information to see what fits the best. Simple as that.