Point Defense Turrets For Warheads

[Smoke]

I think that the Bobby AI, should be able to target Warheads.
This setting would be done exactly the same as: Any, Missile, Selected.
Warhead would be in that list.

I also believe that this will necessarily need to function like the Missile setting, so that it fires at un-factioned/friendly Warheads.

 

[Kyrous]

I agree with giving them a function to target warheads. Some issues I have seen is un-factioned warheads vs defense turrets. The turrets wont fire at them unless you attack all un-factioned members which can be a problem if you have un-factioned members in or around your sectors that are not part of the fight

 

[terra mining corp.]

ya and make them smart enough not to shoot down your own.

 

[MeRobo]

I also believe that this will necessarily need to function like the Missile setting, so that it fires at un-factioned/friendly Warheads.

You can turn AMS friendly fire of. If this is introduced I want this option too.

The main issue I see with this suggestion is how will the AI be capable of detecting warheads because warheads are placed on ships.
Also: If this gets introduced, please introduce https://starmadedock.net/threads/bobby-ai-torpedo-mode.22562/#post-257079

 

[kiddan]

We definitely do need a mode for Bobby to target warheads, more specifically the actual warhead blocks and prioritizing the nearest warhead blocks.

 

[Zekester81]

I made a self propelled torpedo using warheads that moves with a push effect upon undocking. It's worthless as a weapon unless the enemy has no armor at all, or you make the torpedo gigantic. I'd say let the AI target them, but increase the warheads power by about 10-30 times(or more). Seriously, it would do so much damage if I had collision damage on because of the speed it can achieve quickly that the warhead blocks are redundant at this point. (@3000m/s in a very short space with sever max at 200m/s)

Edit: I went to do some testing with the collision damage on to discover that logic isn't activating the push effect with the new update. That's a real bummer.
Edit 2: Derp. It still works, I forgot to put power reactors on the torp.

 

[Valck]

The main issue I see with this suggestion is how will the AI be capable of detecting warheads because warheads are placed on ships.

Agreed, and having a Bobby AI "I am a torpedo" setting could solve this issue as well. Instead of targeting warheads, the "I shoot at torpedoes" AI would target other AIs set to torpedo mode. Bonus points if it doesn't target docked torpedoes.

 

[jayman38]

I think that AI "missile" targeting mode should simply target "enemy" or "neutral" faction warheads in addition to regular missiles.

Bonus: PD turrets will fire on enemy ships that still have warheads anywhere in them, whether they be torpedoes, self-destruct, or general purpose.

Warning: You'll need to keep careful control over your PD turrets in the presence of friendly "neutral" ships.

Suggested Priorities:
1. Missiles attacking this ship (friendly, neutral, or enemy) (defend against friendly heatseekers!)
2. Warheads attacking this ship (friendly, neutral, or enemy)
3. Other Missiles (neutral or enemy, closest first)
4. Other Warheads (neutral or enemy, closest first)

 

[Sgtwisky]

I support the ability to use PD turrets to fire on warheads. Then we can make a move to increase their damage, so that they can be a viable but not OP tactic.

 

[Zekester81]

Here is what you can actually do with a small physical torpedo at this point:

http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/Zachary_Reed/slideshow/torpedo research

Spoiler: test, pics, and opinion

This torpedo

against blue crystal armor with collision damage on On a side note, the torp was reduced to it's ship core which was overheating and thrown out the bottom of the target at a couple hundred m/s while the target was sent spinning off for about 17km.

Glass blocks with two holes are from identical torpedoes. The lower crater impact in the face is with collision damage off from 300m. The upper impact that stretches into the glass is with collision damage on at @ 750m/s from roughly 1000m. The ship core exited the back of the target(100m) and was destroyed.

I may have underestimated them somewhat, but for all the expense and trouble to make one, plus space required to use them and their limited capacity, the bang is probably not worth the buck. Keep in mine that mine were capped with advanced armor, but with a warhead exposed for this test. It would be extremely vulnerable to PD.

I posted a bomber with two in the content section that use a full armor cap for penetration of the target that I haven't tried out on the range. These would be less vulnerable because no warhead is exposed, but the rest of the casing is far more fragile than the non-capped torpedo, and they move slower(@450m/s). I used these as they were not just solid blocks of warheads, which are extremely vulnerable to everything including sneezing, and seemed to be of reasonable size to be considered a viable small torpedo(5-8 warhead block cores). Making bigger torpedoes would make them more liable to be picked up and destroyed by turrets set to any or under the direction of the pilot.

Overall, I'd still like to see an increase in warhead power maybe 2-3x what it is now. PD should definitely be allowed to hit these things and, if the torp is in a casing, might not be enough to stop them. On the other hand, a protected torpedo is useless with collision damage for the server turned off, which it is by default. The only way then is to leave the warhead exposed to make it extremely vulnerable again. This also makes it a much less potent weapon and easier to kill, where I think that perhaps PD would be OP against them.

 

[NeonSturm]

Here is what you can actually do with a small physical torpedo at this point:

http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/Zachary_Reed/slideshow/torpedo research

Spoiler: test, pics, and opinion

This torpedo

against blue crystal armor with collision damage on On a side note, the torp was reduced to it's ship core which was overheating and thrown out the bottom of the target at a couple hundred m/s while the target was sent spinning off for about 17km.

Glass blocks with two holes are from identical torpedoes. The lower crater impact in the face is with collision damage off from 300m. The upper impact that stretches into the glass is with collision damage on at @ 750m/s from roughly 1000m. The ship core exited the back of the target(100m) and was destroyed.

I may have underestimated them somewhat, but for all the expense and trouble to make one, plus space required to use them and their limited capacity, the bang is probably not worth the buck. Keep in mine that mine were capped with advanced armor, but with a warhead exposed for this test. It would be extremely vulnerable to PD.

I posted a bomber with two in the content section that use a full armor cap for penetration of the target that I haven't tried out on the range. These would be less vulnerable because no warhead is exposed, but the rest of the casing is far more fragile than the non-capped torpedo, and they move slower(@450m/s). I used these as they were not just solid blocks of warheads, which are extremely vulnerable to everything including sneezing, and seemed to be of reasonable size to be considered a viable small torpedo(5-8 warhead block cores). Making bigger torpedoes would make them more liable to be picked up and destroyed by turrets set to any or under the direction of the pilot.

Overall, I'd still like to see an increase in warhead power maybe 2-3x what it is now. PD should definitely be allowed to hit these things and, if the torp is in a casing, might not be enough to stop them. On the other hand, a protected torpedo is useless with collision damage for the server turned off, which it is by default. The only way then is to leave the warhead exposed to make it extremely vulnerable again. This also makes it a much less potent weapon and easier to kill, where I think that perhaps PD would be OP against them.

You can use push-cannons on trigger them when a torpedo undocks, the rail sends a nothing-docked signal (with a not-gate) after it had something docked.
The new rail system allows for new torpedoes to move in and thus even less blocks spend on the push-weapon.

Wireless allows to trigger remotely from the bridge which makes Explosive blocks even better then whan I first tested it (a 8x8x8 turret heavily damaged my 30m tall pyramid-ship in a single salvo before they were shield-penetrating).
* Back then I used a core and 3 explosives attached to cover almost all angles.

 

[Zekester81]

You can use push-cannons on trigger them when a torpedo undocks, the rail sends a nothing-docked signal (with a not-gate) after it had something docked.
The new rail system allows for new torpedoes to move in and thus even less blocks spend on the push-weapon.

Wireless allows to trigger remotely from the bridge which makes Explosive blocks even better then whan I first tested it (a 8x8x8 turret heavily damaged my 30m tall pyramid-ship in a single salvo before they were shield-penetrating).
* Back then I used a core and 3 explosives attached to cover almost all angles.

I know all that and went with the push effect cycle on the torp because I've had issues with push cannon in the past. I also put these on a bomber that didn't have the capacity to carry more than one on the pylon and there wasn't room for a push cannon system aboard. I might have used a setup like you describe if I were making a launcher system for a large vessel. I don't know, maybe not. I like that the torp propels it's self the way these do and there are no wireless blocks involved. I have another that uses a rotator to cycle the push effect so it appears to have an active engine. They take off rather quickly, and are already at speed if you are moving when you release. You just sometimes have to aim a little low for long range as the torp will pull up slightly sometimes as it undocks. These could also use a simple rail system to make a magazine without changing the torp so that when one launches it moves the next torp into place and needs only the lunch button it's self.

Edit: New idea. Make a torp magazine with launcher built in, use wireless to fire, and can eject the whole thing when it's empty. Then just load a new one into place instead of reloading ship. Might be the only need for a wireless in the whole system.

Here is my other torp setup if you really want to check it out. Needs collision damage turned on to work right though. https://starmadedock.net/content/tb-33sm-peregrine.4115/

With that setup, I'd still say warheads need a 2-3x power boost for the equipment involved. It would also increase the need for more powerful PD to take them on. The torps I made are very fast, the one on the fighter caps out at about 450m/s. It would be difficult to target.