Alternative to Capital Ship Hyperdrive.

[Snowfox1337]

Looking ar the the thrust change thread i saw a lot of things i liked...one i even liked at first though then saw how strange it would be to use. The hyperdrive. From the original description i saw a station with 2 gears. Park and Ludicrous speed. Spaceballs reference aside i dont see how that is going to be possible to control...on one hand its a station and you dont control it...on the other its a massive capital ship moving at such high speed whole sectors are zipping by in a flash. You would probably miss whatever area you were aiming for several times before you finally got the timing right. As such i dont see it being a usable alternative to thrusters.

That said should we not show the capital ships any love? Not even close. I just think the role should be a little different...perhaps something along the lines of a invasion fleet flagship. Instead of a hyperdrive give them a "Wormhole generator" With a 32 sector range. Before anyone mentions "long range jump drive" here is where it would differ...instead of warping the ship instantly to the target system it would open up the equivalent of a mobile warp gate which the ship automatically passes through. During that time any other ships around it would also be able to pass through into the target sector allowing whole fleets to organise a single simultanious invasion.

The advantages of this system aside from looking very cool (or intimidating if you are on the wrong end) would be increased fleet attack range and a much bigger role for the capital ships.

Meanwhile for the cons i do feel that it should introduce a movement penalty. Not as severe as a top speed of zero but knocking it down to 25% would be enough. Of course this would require enormous amounts of power and possibly even the capital ship losing all power upon completing the jump leaving its fleet to draw fire til power is restored. (also it cant be a very good escape mechanism since enemy ships can follow through the portal.)

I know this would require a lot of work on the part of the devs to implement and could stretch the potential of starmade as we know it but it would open the way for much more advanced, team based, and coordinated strategies in the future.

Any suggestions for balance and changes are welcome.

 

[Ithirahad]

This would make for a VERY good capital ship system, unlike Hyperdrive which should really just become the normal mode of FTL (Jump Drive should remain for specialized purposes, though) and not be a capital ship system. Also, the portal should be in the capital ship's control, so once the fleet gets through they can turn it off (with a small delay), making it challenging to actually follow someone through their portal. I approve of this suggestion 100%.

 

[Zerefette]

I'd like have them both.

 

[AssIn9]

I'd like have them both.

Its like the taco shell commercial. why not both? seriously. Give us all the options. let the players decide how to play, its a sandbox.

But if there was this wormhole, what would be the counter to it? the downside. I see your lots of power req. lots of blocks? If there is an inhibitor in the destination or adjacent sector it fails and dumps you out halfway? Big wormhole graphic as its warming up at both ends?


Can it be a tunnel? Like has transport time? and you have to pilot your ship through it? and if you hit the sides, it destroys those blocks? so you could fight enemies that followed you in, while in the warp??!

 

[Zerefette]

 

[Ithirahad]

Its like the taco shell commercial. why not both? seriously. Give us all the options. let the players decide how to play, its a sandbox.

But if there was this wormhole, what would be the counter to it? the downside. I see your lots of power req. lots of blocks? If there is an inhibitor in the destination or adjacent sector it fails and dumps you out halfway? Big wormhole graphic as its warming up at both ends?

Why is a counter needed? It'd have a long cooldown time, be a really heavy system, and only be practical to mount on fleet flagships.

Yes, there would be a big awesome-looking wormhole opening graphic.

Can it be a tunnel? Like has transport time? and you have to pilot your ship through it? and if you hit the sides, it destroys those blocks? so you could fight enemies that followed you in, while in the warp??!

That technically can be done, but it would mean that Schema would have to teleport the warping ships into a virtual sector, and it'd get... ehm, complicated... Not worth it just because ST: Into Darkness has it.

 

[NeonSturm]

I really like the idea, but I have a slightly different opinion.

Flagships should be multi-purpose. A moving capitol, rather than a combat ship.
Rather than limiting movement, I would limit the amount of blocks that can be spent on firepower to encourage other systems along weapons.​

When I think about a flagship, I think about the Enterprise from StarTrek, being equipped with the latest, finest technology, but not designed to over-power a similar ship designed for war (Compare the Enterprise-shape-ships from ST-into-darkness).
Flagships are self-sustaining cruisers and command centrals, not dreadnoughts.​

And putting such a group-jump onto a Flagship would clearly define it's role for war.


A group-jump would fit to a carrier or support ship.

 

[Snowfox1337]

The main thing im thinking with this suggestion is strategy...so there should be some kind of way to counter it...maybe a interference module that will destablise incoming wormholes and (maybe according to the interference: generater ratio) Cause damage to shields and or blocks of ships passing through. So you set the destination and the countdown to activation starts and a warning appears displaying the effective interferance at the destination...so if you deside to try warping through a system with a 10% interference rate the damage would be a negligable shield hit...50%...well there goes your fighters. As for combat mid warp it would be very cool...but who wants to spend time in a virtual sector before you reach the destination?
[DOUBLEPOST=1450373372,1450373134][/DOUBLEPOST]Hmm...that is a very good point...maybe instead of a speed penalty as i mentioned perhaps it would weaken your weapons to a degree...say 50% Not so weak to make you ineffective in a fight but enough to make you think twice about dedicating your capital ships course to attack the enemies main ship. But in the end its starmade. Its up to the player what they will use their ships for and thus design them to do...so COULD we make them be like other flagships? Yes. But do players WANT ships like those? We dont know.

 

[Cryocasm]

This sounds a lot like Eve: Online's "Jump Portal Generator" which can only be fitted to the largest in game ship (Titans, basically super-capital ships) and a special black ops class of battleships which compromises offensive and defensive capability to mount the device as a strategic asset.

I agree it must be heavy, and it should require a certain amount of modules per 100 mass (to cover both the hull of the tunnelling vessel and the mass of it's companions) and definitively require lots of power draw, but it shouldn't be a system that advertises itself to shipwrights in the sense of "fire-and-forget" where it's so obstructive that it's tactically more advantageous to build a one-way vessel that you lose after the jump (in terms of battle, a pilot would attempt to fly it back to safety but he would effectively be a lost asset to the engagement).

 

[Snowfox1337]

Its clear we really cant think of a good, none crippling downside to the system so balancing will have to wait...but i think we can all agree we need this in the game.

 

[Snowfox1337]

This began as a discussion post on a thread about ground vehicles, but it really needs its own thread due to the scope and impact of the feature I suggested. It's been moved here, and a link has been placed on the other thread.



We do need something like that. Such a shield could motivate a ground attack. Once the shield were disabled, ships could fire on the planet to support ground troops, or ground troops could be evacuated and the planet blown apart. Before someone starts screaming about balance, remember that planets are really not very useful right now, and that such a shield is necessarily going to be severely (even brokenly) overpowered compared to ship weapons and shields in order to encourage ground warfare.

I haven't come up with any good numbers yet (too early in the morning!), but here's an idea of the shield's effect.

• Mechanics: A dodecahedronal shield encompassing the entire planet and providing absurd defense.
  • The shield is rather expensive per block, but uses grouping effects similar to power reactors.
  • There may be one shield grouping per plate. Groups across all plates contribute to a single, planet-wide shield pool.
  • The shield itself behaves similarly to planet HP. It regenerates rapidly even under fire, requiring a strong, sustained bombardment to break.
  • Rather than stopping shots when they hit the surface, the shield stops weapons fire high in the atmosphere to protect ground vehicles and troops.
  • It is possible for small craft to fly through the shield, although it has some harmful effects. The goal is to make it impossible for large ships to do anything of note inside the shield, while allowing fighter-bombers and dropships to pass through.
    • On contact with the shield, weapons are disabled for a few seconds. Scifi excuse: Shield energy briefly overloads targeting systems. This applies to hostile and friendly alike.
    • For enemy and (optionally) neutral: Shields are drained rapidly every tick a ship is in contact with the planetary shield (i.e. while passing through the shield or skimming its surface). It takes one second for a ship shield to fail completely regardless of size. A small craft can get through in a fraction of a second, but a larger one that tries to do the same may wreck into the planet or fail to get through in time.
    • An unshielded ship in contact with the shield takes armor and structure HP damage every tick. The magnitude of the damage scales with the max capacity of the planetary shield. Block destruction could happen but isn't necessary IMO. Battles are CPU-heavy enough without an energy field rapidly eating thousands of blocks.
    • For Pete's sake keep your Titan's nose OUT of the shield!!! It's overpowered for a reason.
• Balance: A planetary shield should be many times easier to build than a ship capable of overwhelming it.
  • Scenario: Newbies land on a planet. Within a matter of hours, they've built a mining ship, flown off, mined asteroids, and build a shield virtually impermeable to a 5000 mass ship.
  • Scenario: A mature faction lands on a planet to establish a forward base. In under an hour, they've installed a shield too strong for even a Titan to pierce.
  • An enemy faction launches a combined ground and space assault in attempt to take a fortified planet, but the ground troops fail to disable the shield so the space assault is useless.
  • An enemy faction assaults a planet with a ship comparable to the Death Star, nearly half the size of the planet under attack. The shield is gradually brought to its knees by the super-Titan's weapon system and finally fails after a 30 minute bombardment. Less than a minute later, the planet gets fragged. Hmm... might have been more fun to launch a ground assault.

A mechanic like this could eventually replace home base invulnerability, simply because a truly invulnerable base would no longer be needed.

This would also fix some complaints about small and large ships. Small ships could do something Titans will never be able to: fly in below a planetary shield to attack things.

Ground assault vehicles could be usable on the surface if only small ships could be used inside the shield.

Ive found our balancer. Its a discussion in another thread that if added would give these drives a balancing factor. You will need to read the other thread to get the details but in short it means that planetary bases would take more than just a spaceborn fleet to take over. As such you would need the ability to quickly transport your forces to the field...but doing that still does not insure victory. The link to the other thread is (http://starmadedock.net/threads/planetary-shield.20397/) Its a amazing suggestion so i do suggest checking it out.

 

[Wolverines527]

Lol its funny how this all started with ground vehicles To planetary shields to make them viable
[DOUBLEPOST=1450545839,1450545766][/DOUBLEPOST]Im not sure if it will work im not a moderator type i just sent a pm to bench

 

[Snowfox1337]

Lol its funny how this all started with ground vehicles To planetary shields to make them viable
[DOUBLEPOST=1450545839,1450545766][/DOUBLEPOST]Im not sure if it will work im not a moderator type i just sent a pm to bench

Yeah...in hindsight i see what you mean. But however it started i feel we are onto something big here. Something that will take asternaut combat to a new level previously thought impossible. I kind of wonder if theres any way we could make ship boarding a more viable tactic...the torch beam is a bit slow in my opinion...but that is a topic for a another future thread.

 

[Wolverines527]

Yeah...in hindsight i see what you mean. But however it started i feel we are onto something big here. Something that will take asternaut combat to a new level previously thought impossible. I kind of wonder if theres any way we could make ship boarding a more viable tactic...the torch beam is a bit slow in my opinion...but that is a topic for a another future thread.

Well if you can make a big enough hole in the hull preferably in the hanger area you could launch small fast dropships though the hole or small fastpods to get into the ship with heavy weapons to punch through locked doors to the core
[DOUBLEPOST=1450566778,1450566694][/DOUBLEPOST]Yeah we are indeed this coincides with another that was for empire building with npcs

 

[Snowfox1337]

Well if you can make a big enough hole in the hull preferably in the hanger area you could launch small fast dropships though the hole or small fastpods to get into the ship with heavy weapons to punch through locked doors to the core
[DOUBLEPOST=1450566778,1450566694][/DOUBLEPOST]Yeah we are indeed this coincides with another that was for empire building with npcs

Starting to get off topic here but the issue with that idea is the same reason you can use a simple rocket launcher. The ships shields would block it. Either way you would end up needing a powerful ship/fleet to ion out the shields to do any damage against the doors...and if you are facing a titan...not a good idea. We need more powerful shield bypassing tools for astronauts or maybe ground vehicles to do anything if the shields are up. but ill make a new thread to discuss that as soon as i can.

 

[Wolverines527]

I can make it and maybe we can pinball ideas with other people

 

[Snowfox1337]

Just made my own before i saw yours. Oops. Heres the link to mine if you want to check it out. http://starmadedock.net/threads/improved-boarding-viability.22409/