Cargo Improvements

[BrotherLazarus]

If you think your storage container on your ship is too large then why not make it smaller? You can't just look at starter ships and miners when thinking about cargo and volume, what happens when you start stock piling advanced armor for building warships? It may take you a week to fill your small salvager but a single cargo space only holds 100 advanced armor.

You know, I tested this out last night by scrapping one of my spare light frigates.

It added ten crates to my station's cargo hold (the image Master Artificer shared of the wee space all in grey). Either you're building a vast number of absurdly, lag-producing gigantic ships, or your server has tweaked settings.

 

[Bench]

I should mention a couple things just while this thread is active....
• While volume is just the mass number at the moment, we'll be adjusting the values up and down. SO a really small item like say, paint, will have the number go lower. For something like rock, because it's planet terrain and big and bulky, the number probably will go up. It'll make storing the small stuff easier and the big cumbersome stuff harder. So mining ships will probably need more space while on your shipyards you won't need as much. It was just easier to port the mass numbers over for now.
• The above volume tweaks will result obviously in us changing the values for capacity, whether up or down, we'll see and obviously threads like this help us to that end, but just so you're aware, volume numbers will be a lot more dynamic.
• The actual block data is stored in the storage block still. This saved us time as a number of mechanics for storage are already in there. It does mean though that connecting two storage blocks to the same cargo in an attempt for both to access all the contents wouldn't work, as the storage block itself is where that data is stored.

 

[nightrune]

The actual block data is stored in the storage block still. This saved us time as a number of mechanics for storage are already in there. It does mean though that connecting two storage blocks to the same cargo in an attempt for both to access all the contents wouldn't work, as the storage block itself is where that data is stored.

Could we just name it the same thing and get access that way? Any storage module on a station with the same name just happens to act the same. All we really want is something like a slave module that acts as the main. It would be great to actually have multiple but I understand the logistics of figuring out what to do in all of the corner cases (What happens when you destroy one, what happens if you only link certain ones. etc). It gets the functionality people want without the complexity.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

You know, I tested this out last night by scrapping one of my spare light frigates.

It added ten crates to my station's cargo hold (the image Master Artificer shared of the wee space all in grey). Either you're building a vast number of absurdly, lag-producing gigantic ships, or your server has tweaked settings.

Sorry there was a typo, 400 advanced armor per module was what I meant to say.

For a general reference/comparison, an Isanth Type Zero takes three storage volumes.

 

[Gandrac]

Something that is a real dealbreaker for me is the fact that you can only pull cargo from entities connected via basic-rails.
My Mining-Ship is some kind of Drone-Miner that uses angled salvage-turrets. The way it is now, i can only pull ore from the center drone. There is unfortunately no way to get the ore out of the other drones (turrets). This is why i would like to see the ability to connect rail-rotators as well as rail turret axis to a storage block.

 

[Aynslei]

Something that is a real dealbreaker for me is the fact that you can only pull cargo from entities connected via basic-rails.
My Mining-Ship is some kind of Drone-Miner that uses angled salvage-turrets. The way it is now, i can only pull ore from the center drone. There is unfortunately no way to get the ore out of the other drones (turrets). This is why i would like to see the ability to connect rail-rotators as well as rail turret axis to a storage block.

Well that is only half true, yes rail rotators can't be linked directly to storage, but they can be changed into rail basic, linked to storage, and then changed back to the rail rotator. (Using logic to change the type of rail will not break a storage link)

I am 100% sure that not being able to link to rail rotators is a bug, so use the work around I shared above until it is fixed.

We probably wont get storage linking from turret axis until AI is smart enough to aim at something other than the nav marker for asteroids.

 

[Gandrac]

Well that is only half true, yes rail rotators can't be linked directly to storage, but they can be changed into rail basic, linked to storage, and then changed back to the rail rotator. (Using logic to change the type of rail will not break a storage link)

Thanks for the Idea.
Unfortunately using rotators limits me to rather undesireable angles.
The Ship i am speaking of is this one (very old Version):

 

[Aynslei]

Thanks for the Idea.
Unfortunately using rotators limits me to rather undesireable angles.
The Ship i am speaking of is this one (very old Version):

Yeah I know your pain, turret based salvagers are something I have been trying to play with for a while now.
If I figure out any neat tricks soon or when we get more features I will pm you what I can.

 

[Megacrafter127]

We probably wont get storage linking from turret axis until AI is smart enough to aim at something other than the nav marker for asteroids.

Assuming the salvage turret is supposed to not be AI control, but player-controlled, the argument, that the need for such transfer is low as turret AI can't aim salvage-beams properly, is completely bypassed.

 

[Edymnion]

I started a new universe with this patch. My beginner salvager has so much cargo space compared to my salvage input that it'll take me a week real-time to fill my hold. I have the one storage and about 20 cargo. So...

Storage block should be nerfed to about 20%.

In all due fairness, what your beginner salvager could mine in a week real time our advanced miners could likely eat through in minutes. I can eat an entire planet in under an hour with my general purpose combat miner.

 

[Valiant70]

First, is expanding the capacity of cargo spaces. Even if it was just up to two or three hundred.

I'm sure this will be debated upon and tweaked. Individual servers will set theirs however they want anyway.

Second, you should be able to connect multiple chests to one space.

FRACK YES MAN!!!

 

[Lecic]

First, is expanding the capacity of cargo spaces. Even if it was just up to two or three hundred.

To pull a quote from another thread...

The smaller limit is driving people insane right now because they're so used to infinite stacks, but I think a smaller limit like this will be better for the game in the long run.

Second, you should be able to connect multiple chests to one space.

Yes please.

 

[Valiant70]

The actual block data is stored in the storage block still. This saved us time as a number of mechanics for storage are already in there. It does mean though that connecting two storage blocks to the same cargo in an attempt for both to access all the contents wouldn't work, as the storage block itself is where that data is stored.

How about using a modification of the the master-slave system? Slave another storage block (or a whole new block for all I care) to the main storage module that has the physical cargo, then the slave just acts like the main one when you open it, showing you the same contents and letting you access them the same way. This would be a quicker solution.

 

[kiraen]

In all due fairness, what your beginner salvager could mine in a week real time our advanced miners could likely eat through in minutes. I can eat an entire planet in under an hour with my general purpose combat miner.

My point here was that cargo is completely unnecessary on starting ships. It doesn't really make much difference until you've got an asteroid or two in your pocket. I haven't quite decided yet whether I think that is good or not. I'm holding off on my decision until individual block volumes have been adjust to more reasonable numbers. We won't really be able to tell what changes need to be made to the storage/cargo until we are more certain how much is going to be stored.
The only change that I am certain of is that you should be able to store more in a Cargo block then you can in a Storage block.

1. The Storage block should have some of it's internal space taken up by the management and compression systems
2. If Storage is bigger, it's more space efficient to add Storage and ignore Cargo.

 

[PizzaPress]

Thanks for the Idea.
Unfortunately using rotators limits me to rather undesireable angles.
The Ship i am speaking of is this one (very old Version):
View attachment 19373

that's awesome, how does that work?

 

[Gandrac]

that's awesome, how does that work?

If you like i will upload the new Version for you to figure out.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I should mention a couple things just while this thread is active....
• While volume is just the mass number at the moment, we'll be adjusting the values up and down. SO a really small item like say, paint, will have the number go lower. For something like rock, because it's planet terrain and big and bulky, the number probably will go up. It'll make storing the small stuff easier and the big cumbersome stuff harder. So mining ships will probably need more space while on your shipyards you won't need as much. It was just easier to port the mass numbers over for now.
• The above volume tweaks will result obviously in us changing the values for capacity, whether up or down, we'll see and obviously threads like this help us to that end, but just so you're aware, volume numbers will be a lot more dynamic.
• The actual block data is stored in the storage block still. This saved us time as a number of mechanics for storage are already in there. It does mean though that connecting two storage blocks to the same cargo in an attempt for both to access all the contents wouldn't work, as the storage block itself is where that data is stored.

To expand on this, I'll share my experience. I have a tendency to "terraform" planets; making them flat so I can build cities and decorative effects. It should be noted that I was able to lower the topography of an entire plate to a flat plane with a 50x45x20 mining ship and not fill up my 162 blocks of cargo space. In contrast, when mining asteroids I get a similar result. Manufactured goods and finished products also take up very little cargo space.

The imbalance comes when I refine the asteroid materials (Dolom, Lukrah, Chabaz, etc, into capsules. Since a mineral block generates 30 capsules, your storage requirement jumps by literally 3000% for all mined minerals. I would imagine that a similar thing occurs with ores and crystal shards. I think this is the key issue most people are having with regard to cargo. It's fairly simple to adapt to, though I imagine that this might give starting players a bit of a headache.

All in all, I think this is an awesome, well thought out update and can't wait to see how it develops.
[DOUBLEPOST=1449674027,1449673296][/DOUBLEPOST]

Assuming the salvage turret is supposed to not be AI control, but player-controlled, the argument, that the need for such transfer is low as turret AI can't aim salvage-beams properly, is completely bypassed.

I find that a detachable salvage rig controlled by logic and docked to a basic rail works very well; allowing me to sweep asteroids and flatten planet surfaces like a giant salvaging knife. I can link the storage to my ship as you guys have been discussing but I even have a little cargo space on board for the salvagers in case something goes wrong.

I have not yet tried rail rotator/turret blocks for cargo sharing, though you might be able to use them with the "personal cargo" feature.

Spoiler

 

[Gandrac]

I have not yet tried rail rotator/turret blocks for cargo sharing, though you might be able to use them with the "personal cargo" feature.

That sounds promising, guess i will give it a try this weekend. Do you know if only one Storage can be assigned to "personal cargo"?
It would be interesting to know because my setup consists of 4 Salvage-Turrets.

 

[MacThule]

This is Thryn homebase

Maybe.

That being said, I kind of like the look of the huge trash heaps. That woulds really weird, and I'm not being ironic, it actually looks kind of nice to see that I have that much stuff.

Do you also drive a very large pickup truck?
;-)

Personally I think that storage is another (positive) factor in discouraging players from spawning mega-ships in their first 3 days on a server. I ran into someone complaining about lag problems with 6 million cargo blocks yesterday... I really have no sympathy. This is *EXACTLY* why cargo is a long-needed upgrade. Part of the whole hyper-mega-inflation problem (players striving maxing credits and vying for largest ship all within the first few days) is the absurdity that we were flitting around with the contents of entire star systems (take a second and think about reality just for half a second at this point - the gross mass of an entire star system minus the star itself) in our pockets and using that as a "starting point" for all constructions, trade, combat, etc.

 

[Raisinbat]

So there's no point in dedicated freighters since most ships can just contain a 20^3 cargo space and that meets all requirements?

You know i'd really like to know what schine wants starmade to be, because they seem to just dilly back and forth between huge space sim and 3D deviantart