Disable Ion/overdrive effect for lock ons

[Zackey_TNT]

My suggestion is to start disabling certain combos, For example Missile plus beam can no longer use overdrive or Ion.

The reason for the suggested changes is that when you give a weapon that already has a nasty alpha strike such as missiles a 2x damage bonus to their base damage (in this case this would only be against shields since ion) the effect can effectively nullify shielding and its use on the battlefield.

And in other cases overdrive is used as a doomsday weapon able to shield and overheat a target in one shot (or volley) The aim of these changes would to delay combat to allow for more advanced and tactical play such as outflanking or rebinding of weapons mid combat.

This hopefully would promote more enjoyable combat with more focus on strategy rather than who fires first and who has the biggest weapons.

Currently the conflict ends so quickly due to high damage weapons that none of this play is possible.

I believe this to be the reason people enjoy lower end ships such as cruisers for pvp, Due to taking more time to kill one another the tactical side of things is likely to be there more as we have more time to out maneuver targets.

Without missiles as a primary method of shielding a target cannon plus cannon would take its place, However missiles still have one big advantage over cannons, They can hull (Overheat) targets faster than a cannon can. So missiles would turn into the go to choice for overheating someone once their shields are down.

Missile plus damage paulse would still have ion effect enabled leading to the advantage of massive alpha strike but its much more costly and is likely to be shot down by AMS.

These are just some of the many many many combinations that you can do in order to better balance combat and add more strategy.

But for this post I suggest missile plus beam no longer have access to ion. Possibly overdrive but this is less common.

 

[Jaaskinal]

I don't really agree with this. From a balance perspective, features of certain weapons and effects, and even possibly combinations of such, should be looked at individually. In addition to that, these effects already have drawbacks - ion does no damage to blocks and overdrive takes six times as much power (I know you already knew this but I still have to mention it.) From a creativity perspective, I don't think it would be great to impose limits on almost anything. It could be frustrating to not be allowed a weapon combination you want simply because it was poorly balanced and people abused it.

 

[MeRobo]

Another drawback of missiles is that they can be shot down (AMS).

 

[Zackey_TNT]

I don't really agree with this. From a balance perspective, features of certain weapons and effects, and even possibly combinations of such, should be looked at individually. In addition to that, these effects already have drawbacks - ion does no damage to blocks and overdrive takes six times as much power (I know you already knew this but I still have to mention it.) From a creativity perspective, I don't think it would be great to impose limits on almost anything. It could be frustrating to not be allowed a weapon combination you want simply because it was poorly balanced and people abused it.

Ion effect is only really a problem for lock ons since you can't shoot down a missile traveling 1100 m/s (In most servers) and they have such an alpha strike that they basically completely nullify shields.

From a creative standpoint, You are likely not going to do pvp and all of this would be a config option as all suggestions/features normally go.

Limiting creativity to get greater game balance is better then doing nothing at all and allowing such an imbalance to occur

 

[NeonSturm]

In another game, some NPC gave me a cloaking device and said something like:

• We have just this one.
• Disable it to attract atomic missiles (super strong and illegal) and then enable it again to evade their targeting systems.
• Don't try to win alone - rather drain the enemy ammunition before the fleet arrives.

We don't have ammo, but an energy storage. Unfortunately weapons drain it in 10 seconds, not a minute which you need for tactical play.

Limiting creativity to get greater game balance is better then doing nothing at all and allowing such an imbalance to occur

Some Imbalance occurs because of exponential economy and no weight classes, no fair fights.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

Another drawback of missiles is that they can be shot down (AMS).

Very rarely, Yes. Though in the case of a lock on ion missile its likely not the only one and its likely doing more total damage then you can shoot down.

 

[jayman38]

Maybe with certain combos, the weapon's behavior is further altered. (E.g. slower missile more susceptible to AMS/PD, slower turn rate, able to lose lock, lower damage, earlier detection, etc.)

And of course, we need missile early warnings.

 

[Groovrider]

This change isn't worth it to me. Ion missiles are great but ion cannons and beams are better in my opinion and have a much greater use in combat that ion missiles. They are vulnerable to anti missile system and you still need to carry a crap-ton of power and regen if your enemy has 4.3 million shields (this happened!) Against a smaller ship (like mine) the enemy didn't get many missile through my defences and it was only his beam and cannon weapons that posed a real threat in the end. Getting through the shields didn't take too long but that was only half the battle. Getting through the advanced armor of an actively defended hull took much longer and ion weapons don't do crap against that.

 

[timmymorrison1]

I bellieve this should be a change because big ship vs big ship battles are really fast. im talking about 500k block ships or greater, right now can be pretty much one shoted. by the same size ship.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

I bellieve this should be a change because big ship vs big ship battles are really fast. im talking about 500k block ships or greater, right now can be pretty much one shoted. by the same size ship.

Yes this doesn't affect anything less then 500K to be honest.

 

[Aynslei]

I will be honest here, I think this is a terrible idea.

Instead of just outright removing specific combos a bigger balance/customization viewpoint needs to be taken.
For instance the recent change to Missile/Cannon dumbfires.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

I will be honest here, I think this is a terrible idea.

Instead of just outright removing specific combos a bigger balance/customization viewpoint needs to be taken.
For instance the recent change to Missile/Cannon dumbfires.

It's always that way with you guys you always want a complete rebalance, instead of taking one step at a time and addressing the most common balance issue. Why should missiles be able to overheat any target once shields are down and be, in itself, a shield gun for anti shield.

The weapons in this game must be for a specific role, if all or one of them can do the same thing there is no interesting combos or balance as everyone just picks the best one.

 

[Aynslei]

It's always that way with you guys you always want a complete rebalance, instead of taking one step at a time and addressing the most common balance issue. Why should missiles be able to overheat any target once shields are down and be, in itself, a shield gun for anti shield.

The weapons in this game must be for a specific role, if all or one of them can do the same thing there is no interesting combos or balance as everyone just picks the best one.

I never said anything about complete rebalance. What I really like is the level of choice I have in my weapons and defensive choices.
What you are asking for is to flat out remove a person's choice in the combat meta for one that you feel would be better.

When I brought up the Missile/Cannon change I was hoping you would see that that specific combo was rarely chosen over other combos, so instead of saying this adds nothing to the combat meta lets remove it a change was made to make it an attractive choice compared to its sibling weapons.

A "rebalance" that made more choices viable for different reasons instead of removing something because it overshadowed others.

 

[Batavium]

This game has a heavy pvp element. That means people get shot. There is always a race to get the better ship "not bigger" The games weapons are fine with a lot of crafty combinations on offer.

But in any fight there are winners and losers. And the ultimate cheat to pull is to come here and ask the games creator to punish the guy that shot you. Because he used weapon X or tactic Y or Ship Z.

I'm a real bloodhound style player i live for the hunt. The game offers a counter for every type of weapon or tactic. And i will counter anything used against me in a fight. Either step up or step down.

The previous missile nerf was terrible and cattered totaly to the people that could not step up. No more nice big holes in ships and everything has to be supersize now to get close to any previous damage level. Putting a lot of strain on servers.

A player called Komatodik used a small ship with a powerdrain and shielddrain beam to cripple my battle cruiser. He even had a jump inhibitor. I could just manage to jump and reach safety. Offcourse i applauded his efforts what a guy! And now he has a 300K monster powered by 20+ docked reactors and 100 milion shield. He sits right next to my home base getting shot by some really crafty turrets and laughs about it. And everyone of my braincells hurts on how am i going to counter that. But counter it i will or at least try it's the effort that counts.

 

[AtraUnam]

The previous missile nerf was terrible and cattered totaly to the people that could not step up. No more nice big holes in ships and everything has to be supersize now to get close to any previous damage level. Putting a lot of strain on servers.

The current issue with missiles (and warheads and damage pulses) is due to a bug and will presumably be fixed at some point.

 

[Comradecolonel]

Little ship battles are really long and drawn out while big ships knock each other out very quickly. I think the problem is the way systems scale with size. Making a small change like not allowing missile+damage beam+ ion won't do much.

 

[Jaaskinal]

Little ship battles are really long and drawn out while big ships knock each other out very quickly. I think the problem is the way systems scale with size. Making a small change like not allowing missile+damage beam+ ion won't do much.

I wonder if taking away the system size damage penalty would help with that. It probably wouldn't fix it, but it wouldn't impact small ships, but would extend the time that larger ships are not overheating.

 

[BDLS]

The previous missile nerf was terrible and cattered totaly to the people that could not step up. No more nice big holes in ships and everything has to be supersize now to get close to any previous damage level. Putting a lot of strain on servers.
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There was no reason to use anything BUT missiles before, what are you talking about? Every goddamn ship worth a shit fielded lock-ons or swarms.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

I wonder if taking away the system size damage penalty would help with that. It probably wouldn't fix it, but it wouldn't impact small ships, but would extend the time that larger ships are not overheating.

My goal of this suggestion is longer and more tactical titan engagements, Take an example I had where I was blown up in less then 15 sec by a guy with another titan, I hardly had time to see him and lock onto him before he basically had my shields down.

If your suggestion or any other for that matter fixs the current oneshot shields down one more shot dead issue with titans I'll be willing to support it
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There was no reason to use anything BUT missiles before, what are you talking about? Every goddamn ship worth a shit fielded lock-ons or swarms.

Cannons where useful for energy regen based ships, I.E Generator carriers.

 

[Comr4de]

The previous missile nerf was terrible and cattered totaly to the people that could not step up. No more nice big holes in ships and everything has to be supersize now to get close to any previous damage level. Putting a lot of strain on servers.

Oh, shut up. Missilemade was the exact opposite of fun. It sounds like you are the one who cannot step up now.

A player called Komatodik used a small ship with a powerdrain and shielddrain beam to cripple my battle cruiser. He even had a jump inhibitor. I could just manage to jump and reach safety. Offcourse i applauded his efforts what a guy! And now he has a 300K monster powered by 20+ docked reactors and 100 milion shield. He sits right next to my home base getting shot by some really crafty turrets and laughs about it. And everyone of my braincells hurts on how am i going to counter that. But counter it i will or at least try it's the effort that counts.

And then you turn around and come onto the forums to punish the guy who attacked you? The inherent hypocrisy in this post is mind-boggling.