Disable Ion/overdrive effect for lock ons

[Nauvran]

So you are saying that a freaking 12K block ship should totally be able to go up against a titan, Sure if you had like 40 of them but one? no.

Never said anything about numbers.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

I never said a fighter. Without the HP system penalty thing, large ships would probably just outlast fighter wings and whatnot.

I still believe weapons should scale on a curve...

Weapons scale on a curve, I like that idea.
[DOUBLEPOST=1449875752,1449875703][/DOUBLEPOST]

I think rather than increasing the cap, the downward curve on shield caps should be lowered. Not fully removed, as it has its balance purposes. Most small ships can't support enough power caps to power a properly powerful alpha weapon, without sacrificing on things like shields. Due to how caps work, though, it's much easier for big ships to mount bigger alpha weapons.

Interesting suggestion there.
[DOUBLEPOST=1449875788][/DOUBLEPOST]

Never said anything about numbers.

Which implies no numbers were involved.

 

[Zekester81]

Well, if your build was set to counter and it didn't work, you might want to try something different. I don't play PVP yet, I'm waiting for the finished product because things tend to change drastically, so I don't have the exp others might in this. However, it does seem like a "build a better mouse trap" problem. I also in no way suggested you were complaining because you lost. If shields don't last as long as you'd like perhaps more armor is in order. I also like the weapon scaling idea. I have seen suggestions in other thread about it. You never know, with some patience, this might resolve it's self in the long run.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

Well, if your build was set to counter and it didn't work, you might want to try something different. I don't play PVP yet, I'm waiting for the finished product because things tend to change drastically, so I don't have the exp others might in this. However, it does seem like a "build a better mouse trap" problem. I also in no way suggested you were complaining because you lost. If shields don't last as long as you'd like perhaps more armor is in order. I also like the weapon scaling idea. I have seen suggestions in other thread about it. You never know, with some patience, this might resolve it's self in the long run.

You just completely ignored what I just said.

Completely.

 

[Aynslei]

You just completely ignored what I just said.

Completely.

Now that we mostly agree that the weapon combo is not at fault I am really curious as to what defensive combos your ship was using at the time it died so fast?

Massive PD screen, multi-block thick advanced armor shell, spaced armor, ablative armor plates(ioned or not), spaced armor, turret/swarmer distraction chaff, or any others.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

Now that we mostly agree that the weapon combo is not at fault I am really curious as to what defensive combos your ship was using at the time it died so fast?

Massive PD screen, multi-block thick advanced armor shell, spaced armor, ablative armor plates(ioned or not), spaced armor, turret/swarmer distraction chaff, or any others.

Unfortunately due to the watching eyes on this forum. I am unable to say, What I will tell you is that the ship was capable of preventing many different types of damage and was built to the limits of the server with blade falcon's standard build quality.

 

[Winterhome]

Unfortunately due to the watching eyes on this forum. I am unable to say, What I will tell you is that the ship was capable of preventing many different types of damage and was built to the limits of the server with blade falcon's standard build quality.

I already know what you're talking about, and that method is actually pretty common. Good luck with the lag when that thing gets shot off, though.

 

[Dire Venom]

Unfortunately due to the watching eyes on this forum. I am unable to say, What I will tell you is that the ship was capable of preventing many different types of damage and was built to the limits of the server with blade falcon's standard build quality.

LOL^
A decent Point defense screen can keep 90% of the missiles off you, and deploying PDS drones (mini drones with 5 point defense turrets stuck on them) will be able to stop over 100 incoming missiles

 

[Zackey_TNT]

I already know what you're talking about, and that method is actually pretty common. Good luck with the lag when that thing gets shot off, though.

What are you talking about?

Docked plating is not allowed on genxnova, The limits have a max total of 20 turrets and you are unable to make any drone have turrets on them.

The ship was built to to the best possible configuration considering the restrictions.

 

[Master_Artificer]

<ShieldDrain>
<BasicValues>
<TickRate>0.5</TickRate> <!-- tick time in seconds, beam must remain on target entity or this timer resets -->
<DrainPerHit>10</DrainPerHit>
<PowerConsumptionPerTick>100</PowerConsumptionPerTick>
<ShieldConsumptionOnTargetFromBeamPower>1.0</ShieldConsumptionOnTargetFromBeamPower> <!-- percentage (0 to 1) of beam power taken of target in shield -->
<ShieldIncOnShooterFromBeamPower>0.5</ShieldIncOnShooterFromBeamPower> <!-- percentage (0 to 1) of beam power given to shooter in shield -->
<Distance>0.24</Distance> <!-- 1 is equal to 100% sector radius --> <!-- timeBetweenHits = 1 / (unitSize^pow)*mult -->
<CoolDown>5</CoolDown> <!-- Time it takes to fire beam again from the start-time it first activated -->
<BurstTime>2.5</BurstTime> <!-- Time the beam will fire -->
<InitialTicks>0</InitialTicks> <!-- Ticks to do at the initial contact of beam with a block -->

<DamageBeam>
<BasicValues>
<DamagePerHit>10</DamagePerHit>
<PowerConsumptionPerTick>100</PowerConsumptionPerTick>
<Distance>0.5</Distance> <!-- 1 is equal to 100% sector radius, reduced range versus other weapons to compensate for beams instant travel time -->
<TickRate>0.2</TickRate> <!-- tick time in seconds, beam must remain on target entity or this timer resets -->
<CoolDown>5.0</CoolDown> <!-- Time it takes to fire beam again from the start-time it first activated -->
<BurstTime>1</BurstTime> <!-- Time the beam will fire -->
<InitialTicks>0</InitialTicks> <!-- Ticks to do at the initial contact of beam with a block -->
<AdditionalPowerConsumptionPerUnitMult>0.1</AdditionalPowerConsumptionPerUnitMult> <!-- Nerf based on amount of groups connected to the same controller: powerConsumption * (1+countGroups*thisValue); 0 tu turn off nerf-->
<DefaultWeaponPenetrationWeight>1.5</DefaultWeaponPenetrationWeight> <!-- This weight will distribute the damage on the penetration depth path. The higher, the more damage is used in the first blocks -->
<DefaultWeaponPenetrationDeepnessMultiplier>1</DefaultWeaponPenetrationDeepnessMultiplier> <!-- how deep is the penetration potentially (depending on log10 of damage). A value of 0 defaults to the old system (full damage hits one block) -->
<ioneffect>
<BeamBlockDamageBonus>-1</BeamBlockDamageBonus>
<BeamShieldDamageBonus>1</BeamShieldDamageBonus>

So while damage beams have a tickrate of 0.2 compared to the tick rate of shield drain (o.5), both have a 5 second cool down, which means a damage beam will deal its damage in 1 second and then cool down for 4 seconds, while a shield drain deals its damage in 2.5 seconds and cools down in 2.5 seconds.


They both have a power consumption that is the same, but after a test of 1 damage beam 1 ion module, vs 2 damage beam module with a target with 60% ion effect the results were:
Damage beam Ion dealt 75 damage to the 60% ion
Drain Beam deals 100 damage to the 60% ion (it ignores the effect) (and restores 50 shields)

but the damage beam pulse ion deals more alpha than the equivalent amount of blocks

--
Also don't slave weapons to the drain beam, it doesn't seem to work at all.

 

[GRHayes]

My suggestion is to start disabling certain combos, For example Missile plus beam can no longer use overdrive or Ion.

The reason for the suggested changes is that when you give a weapon that already has a nasty alpha strike such as missiles a 2x damage bonus to their base damage (in this case this would only be against shields since ion) the effect can effectively nullify shielding and its use on the battlefield.

And in other cases overdrive is used as a doomsday weapon able to shield and overheat a target in one shot (or volley) The aim of these changes would to delay combat to allow for more advanced and tactical play such as outflanking or rebinding of weapons mid combat.

This hopefully would promote more enjoyable combat with more focus on strategy rather than who fires first and who has the biggest weapons.

Currently the conflict ends so quickly due to high damage weapons that none of this play is possible.

I believe this to be the reason people enjoy lower end ships such as cruisers for pvp, Due to taking more time to kill one another the tactical side of things is likely to be there more as we have more time to out maneuver targets.

Without missiles as a primary method of shielding a target cannon plus cannon would take its place, However missiles still have one big advantage over cannons, They can hull (Overheat) targets faster than a cannon can. So missiles would turn into the go to choice for overheating someone once their shields are down.

Missile plus damage paulse would still have ion effect enabled leading to the advantage of massive alpha strike but its much more costly and is likely to be shot down by AMS.

These are just some of the many many many combinations that you can do in order to better balance combat and add more strategy.

But for this post I suggest missile plus beam no longer have access to ion. Possibly overdrive but this is less common.

NO, make that HELL NO.

As you are well aware you have the added power requirement of a missile but they don't just have the power requirement they also have the reload time for each missile to be fired. It doesn't end their any other weapon can't be stopped from impacting missiles can. In fact they are to easy to stop in my opinion. Then on top of all that they changed the way the explosions work they don't damage inwards near as much.
But that isn't the worst of it. They are so CPU intensive if you said even a moderate amount of swarms to a target you will find it calculating and rolling damage numbers up for a minute maybe more. So when your target should have been effectively dead they are still fighting you for additional time and their shields are taking part of the brunt of each missile it finally gets around to calculating the damage on.
You get a larger boom for the added time and power it costs and potential risk of it getting shot down.

Again Hell NO

 

[Comradecolonel]

I think part of the problem is how people want combat to play out. Most of us seem to come from many different games with many different backgrounds. As such there are many different ideas how ship to ship combat should play out. Some of us want to command a huge titan into battle that is going to smash all ships in its way. Others want to used specialized ships that have to be used tactically in order to be effective. As of right now both play styles can be accomplished but are nowhere near ideal.

Obviously this is in part due to missing features, but it is also due to the way blocks work. There do need to be some buffs to smaller ships in terms of protection and a change in weapons.

I'm not sure if the systems damage penalty should be removed but it should definitely be tweaked. Other than that I do like the idea of weapon scaling. I think it makes more sense if smaller ships can kill each other faster and bigger ships can take more hits. I really feel like the bigger ships in the fleet should be far more tanky than they are now.

 

[Aynslei]

NO, make that HELL NO.

As you are well aware you have the added power requirement of a missile but they don't just have the power requirement they also have the reload time for each missile to be fired. It doesn't end their any other weapon can't be stopped from impacting missiles can. In fact they are to easy to stop in my opinion. Then on top of all that they changed the way the explosions work they don't damage inwards near as much.
But that isn't the worst of it. They are so CPU intensive if you said even a moderate amount of swarms to a target you will find it calculating and rolling damage numbers up for a minute maybe more. So when your target should have been effectively dead they are still fighting you for additional time and their shields are taking part of the brunt of each missile it finally gets around to calculating the damage on.
You get a larger boom for the added time and power it costs and potential risk of it getting shot down.

Again Hell NO

That conversation already ran its course. I don't think anyone is still thinking specific weapon combos need to be removed.

 

[kiraen]

I think it says something about the game balance when everyone is complaining that a different system need to be nerfed.
It says the game is balanced.

If your shields go down in 15s, try adding more shields. Or armor. Or PD. Or a jump drive.
Moving on....

 

[Groovrider]

What are you talking about?

Docked plating is not allowed on genxnova, The limits have a max total of 20 turrets and you are unable to make any drone have turrets on them.

The ship was built to to the best possible configuration considering the restrictions.

If you're saying that your opponent broke the rules, then isn't this more a problem with your server's lack of enforcement than with ion missile damage?

 

[Batavium]

There was no reason to use anything BUT missiles before, what are you talking about? Every goddamn ship worth a shit fielded lock-ons or swarms.

People will use the best weapon on offer in pvp no matter what weapon that happends to be. We could make all weapons have the exact same damage output. And let the missile puls cannon beam just be a visual effect of getting that damage on target. Is that balance? And it's still a choice nobody forced you to use missiles. That the other weapons on offer then happend to be less powerfull so be it.

Oh, shut up. Missilemade was the exact opposite of fun. It sounds like you are the one who cannot step up now.

And then you turn around and come onto the forums to punish the guy who attacked you? The inherent hypocrisy in this post is mind-boggling.

You didn't read my post at all did you? The example of Komatodik clearly stats that i applaud his effort he did a fantastic job in beating me.

And i will try my best to fight back.

 

[Keptick]

Armor tank your ship: Watch as they waste all their power firing alpha anti-shield weapons at you, and don't even come close to scratching your GLORIOUS armor tank. All while you're unleashing fury on their over-shielded and under-armored asses.

Seriously... if you know that the focus of your enemy is on anti-shields then don't rely only on shields for defense! Or use shield drain and piss them off by stealing their shields after they bring yours down? Stick a weak waffle cannon on your ship and shoot the missiles down manually (that actually works really well)? Install chaff and laugh at your opponent while they struggle to get a lock-on? Use a jammer? FIRE ALL ZE MISSILEZ? So many options!

 

[Zackey_TNT]

If you're saying that your opponent broke the rules, then isn't this more a problem with your server's lack of enforcement than with ion missile damage?

People in this thread seem to focus on the combat and battle, where as I have stated many many MANY times and y'all don't seem to listen, This isn't a case of me crying about my dead ship the underlying motivation was to promote slower combat, Titans at this stage die to fast due to absurd amounts of missiles and other misc combat items.

The suggestion should have been more along the lines of "reduce the damage curve" because the issue is that larger ships have more blocks but seem to die faster than smaller ships with less blocks, It should scale but it doesn't large one on one ships die in seconds rather than any amount of extended time like fighter combat and that leaves us with no other option than to derp as no tactical outplay or actual strategy can be used.

TL;DR: Stop being a twat and read what i've already said.
[DOUBLEPOST=1449958965,1449958861][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, This was a dumb suggestion and I clearly wasn't thinking straight when I offered to post on behalf of a friend of mine.

Topic&suggestion closed.

 

[Groovrider]

Twat. Wow. I'm really convinced now.

 

[Zekester81]

I have thought about this. Here's what I came up with.

At a certain point ships become all-powerful. That's really the problem. Weapons and power scale up, albeit limited in some ways, with ship size. Basically, Titans are top of the food chain, and have the most power and biggest weapons. At a certain point, weapons become WMDs of unstoppable power, no matter what you defend with. The biggest most powerful Titans would annihilate each other instantly. I believe that is the crux of your problem.

One solution is to add a config option into the server settings to set a maximum amount of weapon modules that can be slaved to a weapon computer. This limits weapon size, configurable for any server, so that weapons cannot exceed a certain power level. This adds the longevity back into Titan battles, and doesn't affect ships of smaller size in any way.