Power changes are ridiculous and broken

[Spartan4845]

If cloak is OP now maybe it needs to be reworked to not tie into power/mass so much, maybe it needs to be handled a different way?

But please don't blame the power, needing less power space will allow for more cargo or RP build space, smaller ships with better interiors.

But people that build OP for the sake of OP have since day one and will continue until the death of the game, because the best balance is fair players and OP crazy people in most cases only care about winning.

 

[Andir]

So... what you are most complaining about is the cost of cloaking... not the changes in generation.

 

[timethatswasted]

I agree this change is dumb, but I am not going to get upset about it. In the end it is always the server owners choice. They can always adjust it themselves if they find it frustrating.

To me this is just another way to dumb the game down. Make it less complicated to attract people with short attention spans. Which is ok, Schemas gotta make that money. As long as he does not take away those config options it's cool.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

*Salt ON*
Not so easy to EMP ships to zero now, is it, Lecic ?
*Salt OFF*

I do find this update problematic. If they only raised the cap, that would have been reasonable. But outright doubling power generation is overshooting it. Not just for the before mentioned issues, but because it reveals one very important problem:
The people responsible for balancing combat stats have no experience in Starmade combat. The closest most of the Schine staff ever got to ingame PvP is streaming it.
Like this power update is supposed to make some sense: lately, every single weapon's per-block damage was buffed, and with it, their power consumption. Beam, cannon, missile, all of them. So it might have seemed logical to buff power. Except it allows for the previously mentioned cloaking monsters and overdrive weapons.

And to those who scoff at Lecic , Master_Artificer and the others voicing their opinions about the changes:
This is an Alpha game. That essentially makes us all testers. We are supposed to provide feedback. And I do think those who actually know a thing or two about fighting in this game should be involved in the balance changes at least on a testing level.

Where the hell is the Council these times?

 

[Andir]

This is an Alpha game. That essentially makes us all testers. We are supposed to provide feedback

Feedback is not:

changes are ridiculous and broken

Feedback is:

The changes to the power generation have broken X, Y, Z because A, B, C.

Because the changes have broken someone's design or layout does not make them ridiculous or broken. It makes them changes that need to be accounted for.

 

[Groovrider]

Sorry folks. I don't see a lot of feedback. I see the normal panic and hyperbole about edge cases.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

Feedback is not:

changes are ridiculous and broken

Feedback is:

The changes to the power generation have broken X, Y, Z because A, B, C.

Because the changes have broken someone's design or layout does not make them ridiculous or broken. It makes them changes that need to be accounted for.

Sorry folks. I don't see a lot of feedback. I see the normal panic and hyperbole about edge cases.

I saw plenty of reasoning:
1. It's a lot easier to permacloak or permajam even bigger ships now. Although firing drops cloak, still nothing stops a permacloaked stealth bomber from unloading its missiles (and pretty large ones since these ships got bigger) on you and then recloak by the time you can return fire. Another tactic is cloak OFF-SWARM-cloak ON which puts the cloaking module on an even lower cooldown than dropping it by firing.

2. The increased power generation also tremendously boosts DPS weapons, I can confirm that. Weapon setups that previously only allowed short bursts can now fired in "spray and pray" mode. Overdrive suddenly got more viable than a lot of alternatives, especially now that cannon and beam have their innate multi-block destruction capabilities, so you don't have to rely on an effect for that. Essentially, you can have the same firepower with a lower block count, which did make small ships more viable, but also made big ones even more menacing, allowing more high-powered, more self-sufficient turrets to be mounted, for example.

 

[Hawk18]

If cloak is OP now maybe it needs to be reworked to not tie into power/mass so much, maybe it needs to be handled a different way?

But please don't blame the power, needing less power space will allow for more cargo or RP build space, smaller ships with better interiors.

But people that build OP for the sake of OP have since day one and will continue until the death of the game, because the best balance is fair players and OP crazy people in most cases only care about winning.

I don't care about cloak. I just think it's an uncecessary change that makes it so all of us who have spent so many hours fitting ships have to now refit them because some people felt like more power was needed.

"Let sleeping dogs lie".

If there isn't a problem don't change it.

 

[Lecic]

But regardless it's as Bonus said, if cloaking is now an issue then that means cloaking, not power, is what needs to be looked. Also I think you both (lecic and arti) need to understand that this power change was intended to be a buff. Everything stat-wise that was changed was buffed, so the fact that it's stronger is an intended feature and, so far, hasn't really demonstrated any actual balance issues.

Again- cloaking is not the issue. The fact that there is so much power that you can do something that was literally impossible before (cloaking a ship that's 40% armor) is now possible is the issue.

These power changes make overdrive the only intelligent weapon effect choice unless your ship is 90% gun. Before, a wide number of effects were useful. Now, why would I make separate ion and pierce guns when I can just make one massive overdrive gun with a higher damage multiplier?

Ion? Overdrive does more damage. Pierce and Punch? Overdrive does more damage. EMP is now worthless again. Explosive? Nah, just make multiple outputs of overdrive.

The changes to the power generation have broken X, Y, Z because A, B, C.

Are you purposefully ignoring the points I've made earlier about how it's broken because it allows normal, completely unspecialized for stealth ships to now cloak, and how it pushes overdrive into the slot of "only viable weapon for everything under the softcap (or using docked reactors.)"? I'm not JUST saying it's broken- I've given reasons why.

 

[SchnellBier]

Next update:
Power supply beams can´t hit the entity they are docked at --> more crying.

Can´t wait to read it.

 

[Andir]

It's hardly arguable that the changes were "ridiculous"

 

[Winterhome]

Y'know, you guys exclusively talk about cloaking as the reason the power change is bad. Can't scanners disable cloaking? So what exactly is the big deal if heavier ships can cloak? I honestly do not see the issue, really. It really does seem like more of a personal preference than an actual legitimate balance concern.

But regardless it's as Bonus said, if cloaking is now an issue then that means cloaking, not power, is what needs to be looked. Also I think you both (lecic and arti) need to understand that this power change was intended to be a buff. Everything stat-wise that was changed was buffed, so the fact that it's stronger is an intended feature and, so far, hasn't really demonstrated any actual balance issues.

It's not just the cloaking. Cloaking is just a standard metric for how much power you have now.

If your ship can cloak, then there is literally no way you can run out of power through normal avenues.
And my ass it hasn't had balance issues. It's completely destroyed the entire weapons meta in favor of "Overdrive on all weapons and turrets".
[DOUBLEPOST=1449335049,1449334859][/DOUBLEPOST]

new players

god damn, man, just because it's a new account doesn't mean you're a "new player"

 

[Malacodor]

Do we even have a confirmation that the doubling in power production was intentional?

 

[Master_Artificer]

*Salt ON*
Not so easy to EMP ships to zero now, is it, Lecic ?
*Salt OFF*

I fucking lost my shit goddammit matt XD
And it was one of those embarrassing unexpected half snort laughs too that made me glad I wasn't out in public when I read that XD

 

[Winterhome]

Do we even have a confirmation that the doubling in power production was intentional?

I don't think it was intentional, but intentional or not, it's what happened. I get the feeling the ones who made the change just tweaked a variable without looking at what that variable is plugged into.

 

[Tunk]

I don't think it was intentional, but intentional or not, it's what happened. I get the feeling the ones who made the change just tweaked a variable without looking at what that variable is plugged into.

I am hoping this is the case, but also hoping it isn't the case.
Was this change even play tested or theorised first?

At first when reading the release notes I was thinking, okay cool but won't that have other effects.

Plugged it into excel, gave it a dirty look.
Logged into game, wtf all over the screen.
Post wtfing overdrive all the things.

 

[Hawk18]

Ships CANNOT burn through their power anymore. This is ridiculous. Overdrive is the only weapon combo that gets anywhere near using enough power. My factionmate Master_Artificer can permacloak his armor tank with the new power changes.

Revert this absurd change. It's broken everything, and for what?

These kinds of changes NEED to be tested before getting released. It's made overdrive into the only smart weapon on anything under the softcap.

EXACTLY!
There is no god damn reason for this change. Power has never been a problem, why the heck did it have to be messed with?

The only result of this is that almost all ships have to be refitted and that almost anybody can use a radarjammer, even a heavy armour tank and that cloakers can be a little bit bigger - which is a system that's anyway going to be changed later.

FFS this makes me so angry. This is so frikken stupid. WAWAWAWAWA it's alpha, doesn't mean you do stupid shit.

 

[Lecic]

Where the hell is the Council these times?

It's looking like all the active councilors left are RP builders, so...

The councilor I talked to on this issue (Primarily an RP builder) stated that armor tanks being able to cloak and every ship using overdrive "sounds like a lot of fun, tbh. lol"

All the PvP/Systems councilors seem to be away at the moment.

Do we even have a confirmation that the doubling in power production was intentional?

No, but regardless of whether or not it was intentional, it got added. So now we have to deal with it.

Again- I'd be fine with a 2 mil cap. Hell, it'd let us cut down on the number of docked reactors in our ships, which could help with lag. But flat out doubling power gen is a mistake.

EDIT-

Was this change even play tested or theorised first?

Doubtful. I don't remember seeing it in the dev builds.

 

[Tunk]

Doubtful. I don't remember seeing it in the dev builds.

Yikes, well there's a definite change in procedure needed there.
Changing one of the fundamental aspects of the game should require at least dev build or testing of some sort rather than changing it willy nilly just before release.

 

[Ithirahad]

There is certainly a change in procedure needed, whether this power change is good or not. The current council suggestion system does not allow for input from other players before something is approved... which is gonna cause problems.