New Weapon + Thruster + Shield + Generator + Fuel Generator, using resources

    Benevolent27

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    Hi, so this is a pretty simple idea at the root of it. The AIM is to make smaller ships more useful and help larger ships be a little less annoying to use by introducing fuel/ammo based versions of already existing blocks and adding a new block to make use of stars in farming.

    New Weapon:
    Gatling Gun - This bad boy does more damage than a cannon, but has less range. It uses less power, but uses resources. Bullets! It also has a limit of 4 groupings max (because any more than that would make for a ridiculous gatling gun, doncha think!?). It'd have all the same attachments. Make it a sniper gun. Make it do EMP damage. Make it an ION bullet shotgun hailstorm! Stick an overdrive on it if you'd like and it will use more power and ammo per shot. ETC. One caveat would be that if one of your groupings gets damaged, it stops working! But don't worry, the others still work. Until they get damaged.

    New Thruster:
    Rocket Booster- Give it more bang than a thruster. But it uses fuel! Ahh, so get out that salvage beam! But the fuel is craftable! Or maybe.. refinable.. Mine from planets, mine from asteroids because fuel is in short supply at the shop! Maybe it runs on crystal composite. Who knows, but it uses fuel! It could be turned on and off, like ION modules to give you that extra boost when you need it. And it would need to be connected to a storage block to pull the fuel from. Or maybe.. a tank. This would be useful for more medium sized ships, to make them more maneuverable. For larger ships, if someone is super rich, maybe they can have a decently fast ship.. so long as they are willing to mine, mine, mine! A caveat of these rocket thrusters is that they can overheat! So don't use em too long or you'll have to wait for them to cool down. And maybe some particularly savage server admins can turn on an option to make them explode if they overheat.

    New Shield:
    Fusion Shield - This ultra-compact shield runs on.. you guessed it, fuel! When you turn it on, it burns through all that extra fuel you have laying around. It charges your shields quick, using a small amount of energy and lots of fuel. It also adds a passive amount to your shield capacity as well, though it takes passive energy to do this (as opposed to a shield capacitor which doesn't take energy). This would make smaller ships be able to take on larger ships, but at a price! Mine mine mine! Get your asteroids quick.

    New Generator:
    Fusion Generator - Need that extra bit of power? Tired of long lines of reactors everywhere? Fear not! Make some of these guys and they'll give you four times the power of reactors per block! Or maybe 10! They don't work quite like reactors, in that they don't have the same type of bonus system. They actually work better in individual blocks. Who knows? But they do use that pesky fuel. So get that mining rig out, because if your small to medium sized fighter ship is to help a raid a larger ship, you'll want it powered up and ready to go when you need it. But there will be a caveat to using these. If your generator has any part of it destroyed, BOOM. You won't want to be anywhere near that explosion.

    New Fuel Generator:
    Starshine Generator - This handy machine uses light from a star plus a little bit of organic materials plus a little energy to create fuel! It does it slowly, but surely, but also passively. Keep this thing well-stocked so next time you visit it, you'll have some fuel to spare for your fighter ships. The closer to a star and the larger the array, the faster it generates fuel from the biomatter you provide it. It can be turned on and off, like an ion generator, if placed on a ship and also with logic blocks!

    Some extra blocks to help supplement the idea:
    A tank for fuel - it's like an inventory, but just holds fuel.
    Pipe to bring fuel to your shield, bullets to the rail gun, or draw fuel out of your fuel generator to bring to tanks.
    Bullets

    So - if you made it this far, feedback is welcome! And thank you for your time. :)
     
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    I honestly enjoy the idea of fuel as a resource the most. Right now our infinite power source is much to heavily relied upon. Literally, every piece of equipment we put on our ships and stations requires just "energy" to run. This is okay because of it's simplicity, but in my opinion (don't kill me for my opinion) alternative energy sources could add a great deal of dynamic builds and spice things up with engineering.
    Like all things there will have to be balance if it's implemented, and a few of your ideas might be interesting to add but I don't think we need a crap ton of new features that only run on fuel. I think things like thrusters, jump drives, and maybe even refineries and factories running off of fuel instead of energy would be an okay change. This would put less strain on your ship and stations power, but also give us something else to gather and manage to keep our ships going and factories running.

    Also. With the upcoming cargo update maybe there could be an alternative "storage" block for fuel that defines a "cargo area" and that area fills up with the fuel and becomes your tank!

    Anyways, I like the concept of a new power source. I don't really have much of an opinion on the other features that are suggested here. I'm sure others in the community will have a say pretty soon here.
     

    alterintel

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    Thankfully, this one of those ideas that just won't die. I wonder how many more fuel suggestions we will get before it actually gets implemented in some fashion.

    Thanks for your suggestion :)
     
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    cool suggestion! This way the fuel refinery on my carrier could be of actual use (only for decoration now)
     
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    I like the idea of some sort of consumable. Either fuel for engines/power or munitions for weapons. It would "feel" more realistic, yes I know it's a sandbox and not real, but it would be just cool.
     
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    I find it interesting that so many people want some sort of fuel system.
    And yet, the very idea of a hunger system is met with complete revulsion.

    This would be a good mod, but shouldn't be part of the base game.
    My $0.02
     

    Benevolent27

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    I find it interesting that so many people want some sort of fuel system.
    And yet, the very idea of a hunger system is met with complete revulsion.

    This would be a good mod, but shouldn't be part of the base game.
    My $0.02
    Well, I think the reason fuel is wanted by many people is because it is more realistic and it adds factory systems, which people like to build. I don't think the entire system should be changed to fuel, because many people probably like the way it is right now. Who wants to HAVE TO mine forever for their ship, and the larger their ship, the more they need to mine? I say give them the option. They don't have to use these fuel-based systems.

    But fuel is just part of my idea. I think a fuel system should be done in such a way that it benefits the game where the game is currently lacking. Right now it just doesn't make any sense for a smaller ship to help on a raid. They are just not capable enough. But if you built it using some stronger versions of the weapons/power/shields, then you could stock up on fuel and still take part in a raid. Maybe 10 people park onto a mothership, then they cruise into battle, deploying when needed. Right now, it would be suicide to man such a fighter vehicle. Smaller fighter ships simply do not come close to having the power or shield regen needed to take on a larger ship.

    I agree that this could be implemented as a mod. Or the developers could allow these blocks to be turned on or off by server admins. Mod-type ideas CAN be implemented into the main game to add variety. Other mods can then build upon that system to create even more variety. I think a fuel system in game would help centralize any mods that are created. One of the problems I've faced in other games that relied entirely on mods for fuel is that many of the different systems would not be compatible with each other and it was quite nice when a mod FINALLY came out to help bridge the gap between them so they could share fuel sources. Of course, whenever modding comes out for StarMade, the modders could opt not to use the default fuel system, but it sure would help get things started quickly if one already existed in the game.
     
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    Who wants to HAVE TO mine forever for their ship, and the larger their ship, the more they need to mine?
    honestly i think this is an argument FOR fuel systems. Anything to provide resistance to the way players as soon as they start a new server are asking "what's the biggest ship on server?" and then trying to beat that in size. for no reason - just to be the biggest. size-resistance factors seem to be growing in the game, i think fuel systems would be a fairly strong factor in encouraging pilots to fly sensibly. taking a 100K mass, 20M shield titan out to mine roids every single time is absurd, but of course there's no reason why not. make fuel an issue and it may just be one more good reason to take out an appropriate ship for the various tasks we do.
     

    Mariux

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    I like how fuel in your suggestion is optional, therefore defeating the main problem of using fuel - micromanagement.
     

    NeonSturm

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    I like how fuel in your suggestion is optional, therefore defeating the main problem of using fuel - micromanagement.
    Perhaps fuel would not be used for normal travel, but only to get away from planets if your ships is otherwise low on thrust.

    Personally, I like regenerative bio-fuel:
    • Plants on your super-carrier produce this fuel or charge your super-crystals with fresh chemical components. Ideas:
      1. Little luxury-vehicles use it up.
      2. Combat drones with limited life-time are easier/cheaper to use with fuel than to replace/carry more of more-inefficient infinite-energy ones.
      3. Use it as a second (slow charging/discharging) energy-capacitor which effectively boosts the power-production when the capacitors are low.
     
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    Mariux

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    Perhaps fuel would not be used for normal travel, but only to get away from planets if your ships is otherwise low on thrust.

    Personally, I like regenerative bio-fuel:
    • Plants on your super-carrier produce this fuel or charge your super-crystals with fresh chemical components. Ideas:
      1. Little luxury-vehicles use it up.
      2. Combat drones with limited life-time are easier/cheaper to use with fuel than to replace/carry more of more-inefficient infinite-energy ones.
      3. Use it as a second (slow charging/discharging) energy-capacitor which effectively boosts the power-production when the capacitors are low.
    Bio-fuel is amazing idea
    Oh, you space hippies.
     
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    Not to take this is a similar but different direction but to me this seems to be a discussion about logistics.

    What I mean is the supply that a ship requires in order to complete a mission. In real world naval situations ships are limited by their fuel supply (except with nuclear, but that has other issues) and essentially the food and water required to keep its crew going. If it is a warship then it is also limited by the amount of munitions it can carry. In modern naval combat it is quite possible to exhaust entire magazines in the order of minutes depending on the type of engagements.

    In space this changes a little. For one now you need fuel, oxygen, food, and water. There is also the issue of temperature but I will ignore this to maintain simplicity. Space craft that follow normal (todays) rules carry an extreme amount of fuel in order to carry tiny payloads. As engine technology improves this ratio drops a little. Remember that spaceship fuel is reaction mass plus propellant. The fuel doesn't work if it's just propellant or remass.

    Now if someone develops a reaction-less drive (that is one with no need for reaction mass) then it becomes possible (somehow) to have engines like we do in star made that just use a limitless power source.

    So now back to my original point. Do we want to handle logistics or remove that element from the game?

    The pro-logistic group would want fuel, ammunition, and life support options. The pro-simplicity people would keep things exactly as they are.

    Forcing a designer to think about logistics opens up brand new warfare options as having a supply line to fuel and ammo is a huge deal. Being caught in open space without any fuel or ammunition would be terrible for a large ship. Likewise ships that are small and don't carry much fuel would have extremely limited range and capability against other ships with longer legs meaning they would be used for more speciality purposes than how they are used today. I would think that you could make a new faction called "Supply Guild" and have stations for them that you can refuel/rearm at.

    Personally I would support the idea of having fuel that is a blend between conventional and starmade. The current power reactors would be renamed "Fuel cell" and their ability to make energy would be dependent on having fuel supplied by the fuel tanks. Fuel tanks would not have any special rules for design like others since they just hold material in them.

    The mass of the fuel tank would be proportional to the amount of fuel contained within. Fuel usage per second would be a function of the number of reactors times a constant. The constant could be tweaked to the liking of the server to make fuel more/less important.

    If something like that is implemented then it would be critical to allow ships to be able to shut off non-essential systems to conserve power and fuel.
     
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    NeonSturm

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    It would also be critical to not make a DPS-monster for killing pirate stations, wasting >3/4 of the shots to empty space behind it when guns continue to drain much power. Perhaps we would see more weapons with a low energy requirement and specialized damage (anti-shield, anti-hull) to make the weapons last longer.

    Currently, anti-matter requires HUGE amounts of energy to produce, but it would be the perfect Star-Trek fuel if it is generated by solar-stations in a low orbit around blue suns.
     

    Benevolent27

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    honestly i think this is an argument FOR fuel systems. Anything to provide resistance to the way players as soon as they start a new server are asking "what's the biggest ship on server?" and then trying to beat that in size. for no reason - just to be the biggest. size-resistance factors seem to be growing in the game, i think fuel systems would be a fairly strong factor in encouraging pilots to fly sensibly. taking a 100K mass, 20M shield titan out to mine roids every single time is absurd, but of course there's no reason why not. make fuel an issue and it may just be one more good reason to take out an appropriate ship for the various tasks we do.
    Hi, thank you for your response! :)

    Perhaps I was a little severe with how I stated that. I think mining is an important part of StarMade. Without it, the game loses something essential. It takes work to build a great ship, and because of that you can be happy with what you create. But my point is that I think a lot of people play StarMade because it is already a cross between a more mining intensive game and one that has more of an arcade quality. You can get started right away with flying ships, building fighters, etc. So, my suggestion is a middleground that allows different people of different playstyles to work together more effectively. If someone is great at making factories, great, they can make factories. They can produce refineries, fuel, and keep their faction stocked up. If someone likes using smaller fighters and would like to take part of raids using a small fighter, then great, let them make that ship that is actually capable of being used for that purpose, but make them work for it. If someone wants to just use the existing system to make ships, that's ok too, they can still play the game and have fun. Nobody would be forced to use the fuel system, but for those who do, they'll find a game with even more depth to it. I think the strength of StarMade is middleground quality to it, where there is depth for those who look for it and for those who want to get started right away, they can. My idea is to help strengthen that middleground by allowing more depth, without taking away what it already has going for it.
     
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    Hi, thank you for your response! :)

    Perhaps I was a little severe with how I stated that. I think mining is an important part of StarMade. Without it, the game loses something essential. It takes work to build a great ship, and because of that you can be happy with what you create. But my point is that I think a lot of people play StarMade because it is already a cross between a more mining intensive game and one that has more of an arcade quality. You can get started right away with flying ships, building fighters, etc. So, my suggestion is a middleground that allows different people of different playstyles to work together more effectively. If someone is great at making factories, great, they can make factories. They can produce refineries, fuel, and keep their faction stocked up. If someone likes using smaller fighters and would like to take part of raids using a small fighter, then great, let them make that ship that is actually capable of being used for that purpose, but make them work for it. If someone wants to just use the existing system to make ships, that's ok too, they can still play the game and have fun. Nobody would be forced to use the fuel system, but for those who do, they'll find a game with even more depth to it. I think the strength of StarMade is middleground quality to it, where there is depth for those who look for it and for those who want to get started right away, they can. My idea is to help strengthen that middleground by allowing more depth, without taking away what it already has going for it.
    I think that's a very healthy approach and agree completely. Any new, potentially cumbersome systems should be, at the very least, able to be server-disabled.
     
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    Another random idea which goes along with fuel systems: Regenerative Fuel.

    What if the ship did have an "unlimited" amount of power, but this power needed to recharge after so long. So like after using a bunch of your systems you'd have to idle your ship or dock it and it would regenerate it's power. Things like thrust would require very little energy, and recharging shields could either be a big drain or not at all. That would depend on what we move toward later down the line. Reliant on shields or armor.

    Anyways. Your power reserves would be fine most of the time if all you did was get around. Using a jump drive could take a bit more of a chunk of energy but it would be cheaper in terms of fuel consumed to distance traveled. Weapons systems however would drain the most out of your fuel. So after a battle you would almost be required to dock or settle somewhere in space and recharge all your power.

    So this could work like, through solar power or some sort of bio-fuel. In the end it's just like, having power regen more like shield regen. It doesn't charge instantly and constantly like it does at the moment. You'd have to be docked or idle in space using minimal systems. This is just an idea, it probably has holes in it all over, but it popped into my head and I thought it should be shared. Brainstorming is always good!
     

    Lecic

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    Personally, I'd prefer fuel as a replacement to docked reactors. This seems nice, though. The idea of a sniper gatling gun gave me a bit of a laugh.
     
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    NeonSturm

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    Another random idea which goes along with fuel systems: Regenerative Fuel.
    What if the ship did have an "unlimited" amount of power, but this power needed to recharge after so long....
    Exactly what I want to play with.
    Personally, I'd prefer fuel as a replacement to docked reactors. This seems nice, though. The idea of a sniper gatling gun gave me a bit of a laugh.
    But you can't have it as easy as disallowing docked reactors - that would not only screw a lot of designs, it would also be boring for some.

    Imagine : Plant + Reactor >> Fuel >> Turret/Cloak + Energy.
    5plants + 1uv-light (in middle plants) + 1 reactors *8min »»fills»» 4-fuel-tanks »»supplies»» 4fuel-reactor *30sec with 16x nominal output total​
    • cost-efficiency for 15 | 30 | 60 sec := 2.125* | 1.7* | 1.3* (assumes : 5plants + light + 4fuel-tanks + 4fuel-reactors = worth 9 reactors)
    • space-efficiency for 15 | 30 | 60 sec := 1.23* | 1* | ~0.77* (includes : half efficiency because of fuel production blocks; +1 normal reactor block)
    • efficiency increases/decreases by 50% with double/half refuel time (once); efficiency-inc/dec-% get worse with more imbalanced block-counts.
    2 fuel types:
    • Fossil, Chemical : good for bursts of 15-60 seconds, cost efficiency (for that time) is better, space efficiency equal, after that time it is worse.
    • Anti-Matter : More compact fuel cells for longer bursts minutes/hours, but not as efficient in space requirements for production
     
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    Benevolent27

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    Another random idea which goes along with fuel systems: Regenerative Fuel.

    What if the ship did have an "unlimited" amount of power, but this power needed to recharge after so long. So like after using a bunch of your systems you'd have to idle your ship or dock it and it would regenerate it's power. Things like thrust would require very little energy, and recharging shields could either be a big drain or not at all. That would depend on what we move toward later down the line. Reliant on shields or armor.

    Anyways. Your power reserves would be fine most of the time if all you did was get around. Using a jump drive could take a bit more of a chunk of energy but it would be cheaper in terms of fuel consumed to distance traveled. Weapons systems however would drain the most out of your fuel. So after a battle you would almost be required to dock or settle somewhere in space and recharge all your power.

    So this could work like, through solar power or some sort of bio-fuel. In the end it's just like, having power regen more like shield regen. It doesn't charge instantly and constantly like it does at the moment. You'd have to be docked or idle in space using minimal systems. This is just an idea, it probably has holes in it all over, but it popped into my head and I thought it should be shared. Brainstorming is always good!
    You could possibly have something similar to this already. Just give power capacitors 100 times the capacity. Increase the amount of power weapons use 10-fold. The only part of this that won't work too well is that bases would also regenerate slowly and would not regenerate while the sector is unloaded. The downside of having this type of power system though is that right now it's a balance of things. Power regen vs power capacity. If everything was simply about power capacity, then that takes an element out of the game. Also, a lot of fights in space take a while. If the power regeneration is very slow, then the moment you're out of power, you're pretty much out of the fight. I imagine ships being made with 90% power capacitors as the standard. lol