Suggestion: Remove "Recognized By Council" Tag (And Alternatives)

[TartarusMkII]

Heya, this is just a very simple suggestion, here.

I would like it if the forum tag "Recognized By Council" instead said "Read by Council", like the "Read by Schine" tag. This implies the Council has come together to discuss an idea, and then stamped the thread to say "this has been talked about."

Without getting into the current problems with the Council, I just think that the current tag sounds more like a medal/trophy/gift when it should be something more simply informative.

EDIT: Was clarified to me - "Thanks for the clarification- I then suggest that we remove the tag all together? If I may be dreadfully straight, it sounds very circle-jerky to me. The Council is supposed to work for the players, and so I don't feel like anyone's particulars ideas should/ should not be able to be given the approval of a bunch of guys.

If the council is going to be taken more seriously in the future, perhaps this is just one small pebble to move on the way to the bigger boulders."

Edit: I feel like the information that equals "this is significant, and is being considered" should be at the hands of someone like Bench, to put in patch notes, or a dev blog to say, "so this is what we're working on next. If you contributed ideas and feedback about these things, chances are you helped make these things! Thank you!"

 

[Comr4de]

We do have a "Read by Council" tag. Just because we read it doesn't mean its a good idea. That's why we have the "Recognized by council" tag, because that means that the majority of us like the idea.

 

[kiraen]

"Read by Council" already exists and is separate from "Recognized by Council"
FYI - http://starmadedock.net/threads/suggestion-forum-prefixes.5849/

edit: sniped by Comr4de.

 

[TartarusMkII]

Thanks for the clarification- I then suggest that we remove the tag all together? If I may be dreadfully straight, it sounds very circle-jerky to me. The Council is supposed to work for the players, and so I don't feel like anyone's particulars ideas should/ should not be able to be given the approval of a bunch of guys.

If the council is going to be taken more seriously in the future, perhaps this is just one small pebble to move on the way to the bigger boulders.

Edit: I feel like the information that equals "this is significant, and is being considered" should be at the hands of someone like Bench, to put in patch notes, or a dev blog to say, "so this is what we're working on next. If you contributed ideas and feedback about these things, chances are you helped make these things! Thank you!"

 

[kiraen]

Read by Council
Similar to Read by Schine, Read by Council indicates that the Council has seen this suggestion. They might not know if it's planned or rejected but they've read it and are noting it down to come back to with an answer from the developers at a later date.

What this means, imo, is that someone on the council has seen the suggestion and

1. it is new and/or inovative (ie: there aren't 12 other threads, three of which are already 'read')
   
2. has no obvious problems (it's not grossly game breaking or against already established restrictions)
   
3. plans to bring it up with other councilors and/or Schine staff to see what they think

Recognized by Council
This is for when the Council have read an idea and as a council wish to recognize it as a good idea. These ideas are ones they make sure to report back to Schine on, but they're ones that definitely interest the Council.

This one, imo, means that the council is taking official notice.

1. It has passed all the first tests
2. the majority of the councilors do not object to seeing this in game
3. the suggestion has received a lot of positive feedback from the community
   
4. they will keep poking Schine with a stick until it has been officially rejected.

 

[Comr4de]

What this means, imo, is that someone on the council has seen the suggestion and

1. it is new and/or inovative (ie: there aren't 12 other threads, three of which are already 'read')
   
2. has no obvious problems (it's not grossly game breaking or against already established restrictions)
   
3. plans to bring it up with other councilors and/or Schine staff to see what they think

This one, imo, means that the council is taking official notice.

1. It has passed all the first tests
2. the majority of the councilors do not object to seeing this in game
3. the suggestion has received a lot of positive feedback from the community
   
4. they will keep poking Schine with a stick until it has been officially rejected.

Better explanation than mine.

 

[TartarusMkII]

I'm not saying that its process isn't sound; I am saying I don't agree with it.

Again, we have like, more than a few different places for ideas to be curated and confirmed or put to rest: Official patch notes, Dev blogs, non-recorded Live-streams, and even the official custom-made road map.

I do not believe that the Council should be able to put such a mark on anyone's idea.. Maybe Schine, but not the Council.

 

[kiraen]

umm...that's kind of the whole point of the council.

The Council of Intergalactic Representatives, or the Council, is a group of community members elected to represent the interests, needs, and ideas of the community to the Schine development team; and to allow easier open-discussion and communication.

 

[TartarusMkII]

Exactly, man. The Council represents the community's interests. Who are they to declare anyone's idea significant enough for the badge or not?

 

[Criss]

Exactly, man. The Council represents the community's interests. Who are they to declare anyone's idea significant enough for the badge or not?

Because frankly I don't want to read repeated suggestions. It's not that they or I do not appreciate the feedback. It is that plenty of forum users post similar suggestions or solutions to problems that are either not really prioritized properly, or are repeats. Recognized by by "X" means whoever read it has come across a suggestion or solution that is new and maybe something we haven't though of, or generally the solution that most people agree with. Plenty of suggestions make it to me without that tag on it anyway.

 

[kiraen]

They are the people that community elected/decided were the ones to do the job.

They don't pick suggestions at random and Schine doesn't have to listen to them. Schine can pick their own suggestions. But the people at Schine don't have enough time to do their real work and trawl thru the forums. That's the Council's job.

They read thru the suggestions. They consider whether it's something that Schine might be interested in, they compare notes with other councilors, ('read by..') they watch the thread to see if the idea gets purchase with the community, maybe try to spur some feeback with a post or two of their own, ('recognized..") and then they start beating on Schine with a stick to make it happen.

What gives them the right? The community did when it voted. Schine did when the vote was confirmed.

(btw, no I didn't get to vote. It was before I really started getting active. Will I vote in the next election? Damn straight. It's my right. It's my duty. It's my privilege. To Schine: thank you for the council, it's one of your best ideas)

 

[TartarusMkII]

Because frankly I don't want to read repeated suggestions. It's not that they or I do not appreciate the feedback. It is that plenty of forum users post similar suggestions or solutions to problems that are either not really prioritized properly, or are repeats. Recognized by by "X" means whoever read it has come across a suggestion or solution that is new and maybe something we haven't though of, or generally the solution that most people agree with. Plenty of suggestions make it to me without that tag on it anyway.

It's interesting that you say that actually Criss, I was just thinking of an alternative that fits even better with that thought that you have, there.

I've already made it clear that I think giving any one person's thread the 'badge' is wrong. In fact, the way you say it makes it seem more to me like a mantle: their thread holds the mantle of being the Council-sponsored thread to represent that idea.

Instead, it might be more healthy if the council took up ideas, lifted them from users, then re-construct their idea in a new thread, perhaps in a sponsored sub-board, and give credit to that person, and those who contribute to the idea.

Two benefits of this alternative are:

A) A skillfully crafted thread can generate far more effective feedback, if the right questions are asked the right way. For example, maybe it is better to ask "How do you foresee this change affecting how you play the game? How do you think you would have to adapt to this change? Would you see it as acceptable, or unacceptable?" Rather than "+1 if this idea sounds cool to you."

B) This would remove this mantle or trophy/badge from users' threads. I don't think it's healthy for the community. Plain and simple. Councilors should not have the right to bestow authoritative approval onto normal users' suggestion threads.

 

[kiraen]

So it's not a problem with what they do, but how they do it.

Personally, I don't see that problem with a player getting recognized for a good suggestion. If they presented it better then they deserve it. They can pat themselves on the back and have an extra scoop of ice cream. Kudos. It's not like it comes with a cash reward.

As for making a new thread, that might not be a bad idea. Moving to a sub-forum is probably not useful tho. A lot of people don't use the search function as it is, the threads will get lost. Your comments on feedback actually sound a lot like this, and I don't think anyone would object to that. It could save a lot of time. The new-thread idea has merit. Of course, councilors have lives too. Depends how much time it takes them.

 

[Criss]

Why is it an issue that good ideas are "rewarded" with a badge that generally does very little in the end? The council is recognizing an idea. They should be letting that user know that someone in their position is at least reading them, maybe discussing them and hopefully with us.

I would prefer discussion take place on the threads themselves and avoid creating new ones at all costs. The goal was to reduce a bit of clutter with some of the tags, which can be used to confirm or reject ideas. It would be somewhat backwards to reference the same idea in a new thread when everyone could and should simply state their input in the original post. People ill give their input if they feel strongly about it, doesn't matter how it's stated or by whom.

 

[TartarusMkII]

So it's not a problem with what they do, but how they do it.

Personally, I don't see that problem with a player getting recognized for a good suggestion. If they presented it better then they deserve it. They can pat themselves on the back and have an extra scoop of ice cream. Kudos. It's not like it comes with a cash reward.

As for making a new thread, that might not be a bad idea. Moving to a sub-forum is probably not useful tho. A lot of people don't use the search function as it is, the threads will get lost. Your comments on feedback actually sound a lot like this, and I don't think anyone would object to that. It could save a lot of time. The new-thread idea has merit. Of course, councilors have lives too. Depends how much time it takes them.

I don't feel like it's professional for councilors to be able to give one person with the idea kudos, and not everyone who would have committed the error of double posting- because even that thread that was given the badge could have been a repeated idea. I don't see it as wise to be able to mark some and not all this way.

Also I'm not sure about the second part, there. The whole point of moving the lifted ideas to a sub-forum is so that they are exemplary and easy to find among the main mass of the root forum.

And Criss, again, I feel the issue would be that it's some and not all. If only one thread in the last couple pages has the mark of being read by the council, or sponsored by the council, does that mean that all other ideas are insignificant or disagreeable?

It makes sense to the councilors who are the ones meeting 'in secret', and potentially makes zero sense to the average user why one thread has the badge and no others.

I mean, damn, if I were still here when crimson-artist's idea was proposed to have the tags, I would have stood firmly against any of it- but out of all the tags, this is the tag I'd argue the most against.

 

[Criss]

If only one thread in the last couple pages has the mark of being read by the council, or sponsored by the council, does that mean that all other ideas are insignificant or disagreeable?

It means they haven't read it as the title of the tag suggests. It doesn't mean anything other than that. It's not as if there is some plot to raise people's posts above others. I can't tell them what to look at. It's volunteer work. There are threads they get really excited about. There are threads that I read that they don't.

Regardless, the point of the tags was so that the councilors and Schine would only have to look at an idea once, read through comments and come to a conclusion. It's so everyone can be on the same page when we come across the thread. It literally has nothing to do with raising posts and users above others, that would be pointless. There will still be threads created by unknowing or new members on topics that have already been discussed.

 

[TartarusMkII]

It means they haven't read it as the title of the tag suggests. It doesn't mean anything other than that. It's not as if there is some plot to raise people's posts above others. I can't tell them what to look at. It's volunteer work. There are threads they get really excited about. There are threads that I read that they don't.

Regardless, the point of the tags was so that the councilors and Schine would only have to look at an idea once, read through comments and come to a conclusion. It's so everyone can be on the same page when we come across the thread. It literally has nothing to do with raising posts and users above others, that would be pointless. There will still be threads created by unknowing or new members on topics that have already been discussed.

Yes, you're right; the last I will say on this issue is that showing players exactly which threads have been looked at (in any way) lets us know just how scarcely our ideas are being seen and noted.

 

[kiraen]

Many times I have seen people post a link with a comment like "hey I had that idea too!"
Many times I have seen a post get 'planned', but the OP was only a broad idea that sparked 9 pages of discussion, feedback, and (let's be honest) cut-throat argument.

It's not the player that gets the tag. It's idea.

As far as the sub-forum, yeah, posts will get lost there. We will end up with just as many, if not more, repeat posts that the council and Schine have to trawl thru. People refuse to use the search function before they post. If you don't believe me just go look at the oldest posts in Suggestions. We are still getting repeats from suggestions made a year and a half ago. I've seen current suggestions for things that are already in the game. Someone get s a brilliant idea and figures they are smarter then anyone else so no one will have thought of it and "I just have to post"! When the truth is that they are the 173rd to have an idea that has been pretty much dismissed.

Personally, I think repeat posters should get a temp-ban and have their posts deleted. But I don't people in general. I am glad the councilors are there, but I could never do their job.

The meetings aren't secret. They just aren't open to the public. It would be a logistical nightmare. And then someone would complain about timezones. And someone would quote a councilor out of context. And most people wouldn't bother to come cuz why should we, it's the councils job.

Maybe the councilors should be included in the next Q&A. That would be interesting. Of course, look how hard it was to get all the developers together.

 

[TartarusMkII]

...Maybe the councilors should be included in the next Q&A. That would be interesting. Of course, look how hard it was to get all the developers together.

Man, I feel like the last thing we need from a council that refuses to be re-constructed is to put them on a pedestal along with the developers of the game. Let's please not do this.

 

[kiraen]

You complained about 'secret meetings', I offered a solution. As for refusing to be reconstructed, huh what?