StarMade Development Direction

[Lecic]

No, it does mean most ships will get bigger.

Has nothing to do with jack of all trade ships or anything else. Its simple math.

If a ship currently needs X blocks to make the most efficient whatever, and that system is one that can benefit from having crew, then you either have to accept a substandard/inefficient build, or you have to build bigger to make room for the crew needed to man your system.

Which means every single ship design we currently have now that has systems that can be crewed for a bonus *MUST* get bigger to accommodate the crew, or they have to become relatively weaker compared to those who do.

And I think we all know from experience that nobody intentionally flies around in an underpowered anything unless they simply don't have the blocks to finish it or have an RP reason not to.

I'm pretty sure the bonuses you get from having the ship manned will outweigh the amount of system power lost by putting some rooms in your ships for those crew to work in. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it to crew your ships.

Soo... no. Ship size is likely NOT going to grow. If anything, it'll be shrinking, since smaller ships are more efficient, and we'll finally have fleet control.

 

[StormWing0]

It really depends, ships built for crew in the first place won't change size at all but yes no lone fool in gaming I've run into will accept anything less than max potential unless they can't get it for some reasons.

 

[Edymnion]

I'm pretty sure the bonuses you get from having the ship manned will outweigh the amount of system power lost by putting some rooms in your ships for those crew to work in. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it to crew your ships.

Soo... no. Ship size is likely NOT going to grow. If anything, it'll be shrinking, since smaller ships are more efficient, and we'll finally have fleet control.

The bonuses could be reduced power cost, or faster recharge time, etc. Doesn't mean the system affected will use less blocks for the same effect.

And great, so instead of one bigger ship, we now have an entire fleet of larger ships because all of the AI ships will need crews for their systems as well.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking crews, I love the idea. I had a thread before the announcement about the same thing. But I will bet you cold hard cash right now that ships will get larger as a result of this, not smaller, and that means we need to be looking into optimization to make those larger ships eat less server resources, not depend on the kindness of strangers to just not build a ship to it's maximum potential.

 

[StormWing0]

Ships that use the Bobby's AI won't get any bigger, no need to put crew in them unless you are needing crew for something the AI module can't do.

 

[lilheartless]

No, it does mean most ships will get bigger.

Has nothing to do with jack of all trade ships or anything else. Its simple math.

If a ship currently needs X blocks to make the most efficient whatever, and that system is one that can benefit from having crew, then you either have to accept a substandard/inefficient build, or you have to build bigger to make room for the crew needed to man your system.

Which means every single ship design we currently have now that has systems that can be crewed for a bonus *MUST* get bigger to accommodate the crew, or they have to become relatively weaker compared to those who do.

And I think we all know from experience that nobody intentionally flies around in an underpowered anything unless they simply don't have the blocks to finish it or have an RP reason not to.

what are you talking about .... math its not hard

if a current system needs 600 blocks to be x efficient and a crew member boosts efficiency 20 %then you can literally decrease the size of the system by 100 blocks to have the EXACT SAME EFFICIENCY now more than likely if you were only going to crew one system you might actually gain a few blocks because you need 2 crew quarters a mess quarters a bridge quarters and a quarters for the system and those would probably take up more than say 100 blocks so more space


Now lets look at a more realistic example the crew member increases efficiency by 10% not 20 so less than before you have

• a 3000 cannon block system
• a 5000 warp drive system
• a 2000 missile system
• a 4000 block ion system

in order to have crew you also need a food and a relaxation area from the sounds of it
if the ship is ai piloted you also need a pilot

so lets just assume you have 7 crew members and the turrets which aren't as large are bobby controlled

lets say for arguments sake that each room has to be 5x5x5 for a crew quarters which is probably pretty large but 125 blocks is ez

so you need 6 crew quarters thats 725 blocks for crew space lets say another 200 for rec space and another 150 for a eating area and there is a master bridge which you probably already had on a ship this large so we won't count that which totals 1075 blocks

this is also being pretty generous i mean who builds rooms that have over 15 ft high ceilings

now take just less than 10% of each of the 4 crewed systems so about 285 about 475 about 190 and about 380 and that equals 1330 blocks which wouldn't you know it IS MORE FREE BLOCKS THAN THE CREW SYSTEM TOOK which means ur ship is actually
250 blocks smaller with the rp space and crew than it was without it that might not be a huge amount but come on lets be realistic ships don't need to get any bigger.

obviously you aren't going to crew a ship that only has 30 system blocks total cause that isn't even a drone and there is no point so i'm not really sure where you are getting these ideas from.

Edit:
I said this before but i will say it again ships are completely based on power your power generation amounts to your shield restoration your dps everything is based on power.

The Most efficient ships will sit at right around the 750k - 1mil power generation range you can build your ship as BIG as you want it will still get rolled over by a new "fleet' of ships of similar mass that have more efficient power generation because those ships will in and of themselves be more efficient.

Edit2: also What? if a ship need x blocks to make it efficient? every block has the same value save for power and shields 1 1 block cannon system is just as efficient as a 50000 block cannon system with each doing 1 damage per 10 power there are no systems save for power and shields that gain or lose efficiency and these systems have no computers so i'm not exactly sure how you would "crew them'

Edit3: there will always be a point on any efficiency curve relating 2 separate systems that interact on one variable where it will be more efficient to go with a than b without knowing how much a crew member will boost said system there will be 3 states a medium sized state where it is more efficient to use no crew an incredibly small state where no crew and having crew will be exactly equal this will literally come down to one block in size so that should tell you how small this state is and then a third state which encompasses every ship bigger than the first two states where it is more efficient to use crew to get the same result in a same sized ship but if your ship needs to be larger to use crew then it is more efficient to not use crew the only time it is more efficient to use crew is when it makes your total system amount smaller hopefully this clears up any confusion you may have on the subject.

 

[Chaus]

Fuck yes. This is what I've been wanting in a game. Thank you.

 

[Edymnion]

• a 3000 cannon block system
• a 5000 warp drive system
• a 2000 missile system
• a 4000 block ion system

You're looking at 14k blocks before you even start in on power, storage, hull, shields, etc. Thats already a fairly decent sized ship to start with.

But thats not the point. I'm not saying everyone is going to fly around in a titan just for the hell of it, I'm saying realistically someone who is used to making X sized systems is going to keep making them that size, and add the crew stuff on top of that. Most people are not going to sit down and do the math to find break even points, they're going to build an acceptable system and then add the crew bonus on top of that.

I'm saying someone that would have built a 50k block ship might now be building a 55k block ship, not that they're going to suddenly make million block sector spanning mega titans.

Larger doesn't mean an order of magnitude larger, it just means bigger than they would have built had crews not existed.

More blocks being added means more blocks to put on your ships, which means bigger ships to carry all of those new blocks.

Because unless there is an active punishment to building bigger, nobody is going to try to juggle everything and put in a lot of extra work to break even with what they could do faster and easier in the same space by just dropping more systems.

And thats the key, really.

The crews are going to have to give bonuses that cannot be replicated by simply piling in more of the base system. They can't be "20% more damage", because then one of two things will happen. They will either be more efficient than the base system, which means they become 100% mandatory for anyone that cares about building an efficient ship, or they will be even/less efficient and they won't get used due to their added complexity.

They're going to need to offer us something we can't get any other way, or offer us something that simply refines or makes something we can already do easier.

Example:
Crew increasing weapon damage? Nope, thats either going to be ramping up the power curve, or its going to be ignored. Crew on a weapon system allowing it to be fired as if another player were in that computer, giving you an effect more like a fixed turret? Now thats useful and something we can already do either by having friends or by switching between cameras/arrays manually. It would just be easier with a crew.

Crew making a salvage beam more efficient? Not really much point when its easier to just build a bigger array. Crew that would automatically sort your stuff for you, or even man salvage turrets? Now that would be more useful.

 

[Lecic]

14k blocks

fairly decent sized ship

Do you even play this game? Oh my god.

Because unless there is an active punishment to building bigger,

Alright. Let's say there's an amount of resources you can get from controlled planets or something. However, to keep control of those planets, you need fleets and stations to defend them. So, to grow your defense fleet, you expand and take control of more planets and territory to defend. So, instead of making bigger and bigger ships, you build a larger fleet instead. Since ships are more efficient on a per-block scale when they're under the 1 mil power softcap, most ships will be around that size.

 

[lilheartless]

Do you even play this game? Oh my god.



Alright. Let's say there's an amount of resources you can get from controlled planets or something. However, to keep control of those planets, you need fleets and stations to defend them. So, to grow your defense fleet, you expand and take control of more planets and territory to defend. So, instead of making bigger and bigger ships, you build a larger fleet instead. Since ships are more efficient on a per-block scale when they're under the 1 mil power softcap, most ships will be around that size.

I was just going to kinda say the same thing as of RIGHT NOW there is a direct negative to building ships that require over the 1 mil e/sec regen a standard system can provide and that is decreased efficiency overall.

However as of RIGHT NOW there is no alternative to this system you cannot fly 20 ships so instead you make 1 ship that costs the same as 20 ships and operates like you had 8

with fleets this will be a thing of the past depending on how the fleet is controlled you may need a more durable ship aka bulkier slower heavier thicker armor more shields flagship if its required that one ship be in charge of the other ships but it will be less combat focused and more control focused at that point only being as inefficient as possible to get the job done and then ofcourse you will still have your incredibly large Carrier and fleet ops ships but combat ships will never again be huge.

Edit: Unless something changes with the weapons like some kind of grouping mechanic that gives a more powerful/wider range shot or something of that nature that would make the tradeoff for efficiency in raw power.

 

[Employee763]

...guys, you know interiors don't take up that much space, right?

A long time ago I built a ship specifically for this purpose. It weighed about 10k, and was designed for a crew of 20. It had 1x2 hallways, small rooms, and some other extra stuff. I hardly used any extra space. At that weight compensation for crew hardly makes a difference. On a smaller ship it might, but you'd use a smaller crew and have less space.

 

[StormWing0]

...guys, you know interiors don't take up that much space, right?

A long time ago I built a ship specifically for this purpose. It weighed about 10k, and was designed for a crew of 20. It had 1x2 hallways, small rooms, and some other extra stuff. I hardly used any extra space. At that weight compensation for crew hardly makes a difference. On a smaller ship it might, but you'd use a smaller crew and have less space.

Yep, I'm planning on making the smallest spaces I can to get this to work too. The end of the world will not stop me from finding a way to fit something the size of a titan into the space of half the size anyone else has. :P So fitting crew and their quarters into a small area shouldn't be any harder. :P

 

[CoolCatKilla]

I just wanted to say I love all of this and the dev team. :d <3

 

[Employee763]

Yep, I'm planning on making the smallest spaces I can to get this to work too. The end of the world will not stop me from finding a way to fit something the size of a titan into the space of half the size anyone else has. :p So fitting crew and their quarters into a small area shouldn't be any harder. :p

U-Boat like interiors FTW

 

[thatothermitch]

Factions that grow through taking territories and establishing bases and stations will open up more methods of passive resource and faction point acquisition.

Will an adequately crewed vessel be capable of fetching cargo from one or more passive mining installations without player intervention? Depending on how significant passive collection becomes, it seems like this might be pretty important to reduce tedium. [Edit: As a bonus, this might also] provide a universe of rewarding targets for faction-on-faction raiding.

Physical cargo will become the primary means of storage. Storage blocks will remain but through the Cargo System you will be able to establish areas that are used for storage. When placing items in the Storage Hold computer, or through the available menus, physical crates for storage will appear in the cargo hold areas.

Is it too soon to predict how inter-entity cargo transfer work? If I may speculate, a menu interface with gradual completion like the shipyard is probably adequate and thematic for many cases, but it might also be nice to make this accessible on a 'blockical' level; for instance, provide a 'cargo transfer dock' block allowed to link to/from cargo computers, and provide a storage-block-like pull-tick system.

Also, perhaps this is a silly question, but will storage bays operate in 2 (i.e. filling a floor) or 3 (i.e. filling a room from floor to ceiling) dimensions

Through quarters you will be able to define standard spaces, such as living quarters, recreational quarters, market quarters, offices, medical etc. along with ship-specific quarters such as the bridge of a ship.

Will there be size, or other requirements on quarters? Is it imagined that separate, 4-wall rooms with doors (e.g. like space base ds9, *RIP*) will be required, or simply 3d regions? Obviously some types of quarters will require computers to really work, but will living quarters require any specific blocks?

 

[ResonKinetic]

FUCK EVERYTHING GUYS WE'RE GETTING CHAIRS GOOD LORD ALMIGHTY SOMEBODY CATCH ME

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Wow! I can't wait.
Awesome guys.

 

[cowmaster14]

This all sounds amazing!! although I have one question. will you be able to assign the npcs as pilots for ships if your were to make a "fleet"?
for instance, they would fly next to you and they organize which ships goes where based on how many are following you?

 

[fives275555]

That means we can created exact replica of battles in star wars and star trek using npcs?

 

[Ithirahad]

That means we can created exact replica of battles in star wars and star trek using npcs?

Hey, good point... We can finally find out who would really win that famous battle of the Sci-Fi geeks.

 

[Edymnion]

Do you even play this game? Oh my god.

Yeah, I do. My salvage array is bigger than everything listed there, but thats not the point. I actually do compare what I build to what the average person builds, and I know my stuff is bigger than most people's by quite a bit.

I actually look at how people other than myself and a handful of mega builders build, and the average ship size is fairly small by my standards.

I was just going to kinda say the same thing as of RIGHT NOW there is a direct negative to building ships that require over the 1 mil e/sec regen a standard system can provide and that is decreased efficiency overall.

What? You just dock some reactors. The softcap isn't really a problem, its just a design consideration.