Reduceing the size of turrets with weapon emitter blocks

[Ithirahad]

I see why you want this, but I don't think its really a good idea. I feel like this idea is coming from the desire to make ships from various franchises accurate and also combat effective in the game. I have also often felt the need for mechanics to change to match whatever scifi. I for a while wished that the ion effect disabled systems, because that is how it works in star wars. But I realized that starmade is not a star wars simulator, and that not everything can be like that, The same goes for this. Yes, in star trek ships can fire in many directions with high powered weapons without the need for bulky turrets. But, why should they have too be the same way in starmade? You cannot suit every scifi, and the game should go its own way anyway. Besides, it is perfectly possible to make a good looking ship with big turrets. Just look at homeworld ships. Their turrets are plenty big enough to work in starmade, and they look great. Make them part of your ships design.

My complaint actually has nothing to do with other Sci-Fi. Look at this ship:

...And tell me how the hell things like this are supposed to have reasonably-powerful turrets that don't make them look like crap? (If you look closely, you might be able to spot a pair of derpy little embedded turrets... As someone said "overdrive is our friend" but they're still incredibly weak and take up a disproportionate amount of space inside the ship for pivot space.

 

[Lecic]

I'd support this solely if you still needed the same amount of mass enhancers for the turret. Currently, this allows you to make turrets that don't suffer from the need for enhancers, which can be quite a few blocks on large turret boats.

 

[Keptick]

I'd support this solely if you still needed the same amount of mass enhancers for the turret. Currently, this allows you to make turrets that don't suffer from the need for enhancers, which can be quite a few blocks on large turret boats.

This, and the fact that you wouldn't need manually fired weapons anymore, considering that you could have all the ship board weapons fired by aimbot turrets without the turn rate restrictions of the ship...

It would be OP as hell.

 

[Lecic]

considering that you could have all the ship board weapons fired by aimbot turrets without the turn rate restrictions of the ship...

I mean, you would still have the issue of going beneath 50% shields and having your weapon emitter get blown off.

 

[Keptick]

I mean, you would still have the issue of going beneath 50% shields and having your weapon emitter get blown off.

I guess, but you could also have a set up to rapidly relink computers to onboard weapons. Also, imagine a million mass titan with this sort of thing. I could have a miniature turret with 500 million shield alpha damage.

I'm refering to the way the OP described it btw, your idea with enhancers would fix the issue.

 

[Ithirahad]

Yeah, I like the enhancers thing.

 

[EMC007]

If the turret is small, you will have an easier kill when trying to shoot at it, cause if you fire just one missile then boom, the turret is gone. So, in a way, that kinda balances it?

The real challenge would be getting the shields down, so I feel that if this is implemented, then turrets should need their own shields or something.

I don't know, but the more we try to balance this, the more complicated it seems to get.

 

[Lecic]

If the turret is small, you will have an easier kill when trying to shoot at it, cause if you fire just one missile then boom, the turret is gone. So, in a way, that kinda balances it?

No, it's still unbalanced because it can turn without needing lots of enhancers.

 

[CrunkPrime]

If turrets needed their own shielding like before turrets would be dying instantly. Even to give your turret somethign like 100,000 shielding takes up a massive amount of space. It would be ridiculous to go back to that horrible system.

 

[MeRobo]

however A cannon's power isn't in the size of it's barrel, it's in the size of the bullet.

Now I want to see a 18.1 inch round fired from a Maxim gun :P

 

[GaeasSon]

OK, let me say this first... powerful trek style articulated turrets ARE possible under the current system. They are just a pain in the butt to build. See my posts here: http://starmadedock.net/threads/the-turret-thread.5981/page-5

Now... I would be in favor of a damage nerf for beam weapons in exchange for a targeted emitter block. YES, linear accelerator/kinetic weapons require massive barrels or coil guides to accelerate the projectile .. not so much beam weapons. I can redirect a charged particle stream with with a couple small magnetic coils. I can redirect a photon beam with a mirror. I can redirect a microwave beam with a flexible wave guide.

How about this...

Option 1:
If I build a single axis turret, then stick a camera on the beam array, allow the AI to redirect the beam within the field of view of the camera, just like I can redirect the beams within the field of view when connected to core or cockpit.
If game balance requires, nerf beam output, or increase energy draw, accordingly when using this feature.

Option 2:
If I build a 2 axis turret with the same beam on both, allow me to transfer beam energy from the base to the barrel.
If game balance requires, nerf beam output, or increase energy draw, accordingly when using this feature.

Either of these would give me much greater latitude of design. I'm about to build a bunch of ship from Axanar* and either version of this feature would save me a LOT of hair pulling.

http://www.axanarproductions.com/

 

[Knack]

I would love this kind of block but suggest two downsides.
First, it would take the whole energy from the ship where the weapon modules are mounted (I'm building turrets mainly to get the full power bonus from the turrets, this way if using an emitter block it would drain form the mainship)
Second, it should half the damage output.

This way it would be balanced, cause your are changing efficiency for optic and agility.

 

[Ithirahad]

OK, let me say this first... powerful trek style articulated turrets ARE possible under the current system. They are just a pain in the butt to build. See my posts here: http://starmadedock.net/threads/the-turret-thread.5981/page-5

Now... I would be in favor of a damage nerf for beam weapons in exchange for a targeted emitter block. YES, linear accelerator/kinetic weapons require massive barrels or coil guides to accelerate the projectile .. not so much beam weapons. I can redirect a charged particle stream with with a couple small magnetic coils. I can redirect a photon beam with a mirror. I can redirect a microwave beam with a flexible wave guide.

How about this...

Option 1:
If I build a single axis turret, then stick a camera on the beam array, allow the AI to redirect the beam within the field of view of the camera, just like I can redirect the beams within the field of view when connected to core or cockpit.
If game balance requires, nerf beam output, or increase energy draw, accordingly when using this feature.

Option 2:
If I build a 2 axis turret with the same beam on both, allow me to transfer beam energy from the base to the barrel.
If game balance requires, nerf beam output, or increase energy draw, accordingly when using this feature.

Either of these would give me much greater latitude of design. I'm about to build a bunch of ship from Axanar* and either version of this feature would save me a LOT of hair pulling.

http://www.axanarproductions.com/

...but your turret is tiny... Creating practical turrets with similar yield to ST phasers would probably still require the use of traditional barrelled turrets. Your solution might prove insufficient.

 

[alterintel]

...but your turret is tiny... Creating practical turrets with similar yield to ST phasers would probably still require the use of traditional barreled turrets. Your solution might prove insufficient.

I agree, that this solution, while innovative and typical of the genius which is GaeasSon, it is not much of a solution. This method would require empty space within your ship to be 5x the size of your turret for the turret to have 90X45 degree movement. Though this method has caused me to think about the problem from a different angle (thanks ). With the galaxy class I'm working on, this could maybe work, just because it's soo big. I'm pretty sure I could fit a couple 1000 size turrets in the suacer section. But we'll see.

 

[Brain_Dawgs]

Personally I don't see how anyone could see this idea to be "OP." From what I understand, the concept isn't about reducing the amount of blocks needed for a turret, it's just placing them where they wont be unsightly (as well as being better protected).

If anything it could potentially make turrets more vulnerable, assuming that if the emitter block is taken out the turret is rendered useless. The way turrets are now you have to blast apart dozens of blocks before they overheat; if you had a tiny turret head it would take far less punishment once its shields went down.

 

[Knack]

• Take the power from the ship the weapon modules are on.
• Half the damage output.
  
• Require 1 Emitter-block per 20 weapon modules.
• As always, values full configurable through the blockBehaviorConfig.xml

That would push nice designs without reducing the balance.

I wonder if that could also transfer the weaponpower wirleess between ship, so that some ships could focus their power through an emitter ship. (Real Deathstar weapon incomming)

 

[Dellexe]

• Take the power from the ship the weapon modules are on.
• Half the damage output.
  
• Require 1 Emitter-block per 20 weapon modules.
• As always, values full configurable through the blockBehaviorConfig.xml

That would push nice designs without reducing the balance.

I wonder if that could also transfer the weaponpower wirleess between ship, so that some ships could focus their power through an emitter ship. (Real Deathstar weapon incomming)

-
First I'd like to say that I agree with parts of your post. Your first, third, and fourth points I agree with, for the most part. The number of emitter blocks could of course be adjusted.
-
However, your second point I disagree with ENTIRELY.
-
Halving the damage output would be a terrible choice, in my opinion.
The ENTIRE point of this proposed change is to make more visually appealing, low profile turrets VIABLE when compared to bulkier and more pronounced turrets.
Halving the damage output of visually appealing turrets goes COMPLETELY against the purpose of the suggestion, because you still have the exact same issue.
Anyone who builds turrets that are slimmed down to fit with the visual theme of their ship are wearing cement shoes if your idea of halving the damage is implemented. They already would need more blocks per damage per second with your ideas, needing emitters for the turret as well as needing the usual blocks for a turret. Halving the damage of turrets using emitters only serves to further cripple this type of turret.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

Why not use the from the depths system or something similar to it? Obviously not directly copying it but adapting a well though out system like the guns in from the depths would improve this game by quite a bit.

You see the problem currently is, Say I make a really large ship... having nice looking turrets is impossible because ships that are large shouldn't waste their time on turrets that frankly don't even push what their power can use

At that point you have one of three options

Make the turret float and thus have 360 degree view and huge to use the power the titan produces

Or limit yourself to a poor angle which if you are attacked at a specific angle would be your undoing.

And finally make a huge turret with a battleship styled system, Looks good but you can't fit big enough weapons to be worth it.

Reducing the size required by guns is what from the depths has BUT it still requires large barrels and a large turret. You can't stick a battleship 16 inch gun on a small cruiser because once you fire it the ship will flip over and when you turn it the boat will half sink to one side.

Instead in FTD you must make the hull big enough to take the weapons.

An example of FTD is the fact that you can have a lazer weapon on the ship that the turrets can fire.

A fix to all our problems (If you TL'DR This post) is to do what they are already planning and make barrels on the base of the turret be able to be connected to the barrel of the turret.

A system like this would allow for small external turrets and huge internal space being used for a massive cannon.

 

[Lecic]

Personally I don't see how anyone could see this idea to be "OP." From what I understand, the concept isn't about reducing the amount of blocks needed for a turret, it's just placing them where they wont be unsightly (as well as being better protected).

Because you can give a battleship's main gun to (depending on server accuracy settings) an AI capable of hitting things further away than is humanly possible (due to ships being only a few pixels to the human eye at long range) that can turn at extremely high speeds, which is why I think it should still require mass enhancers.

Also, it's hardly an issue if it gets blown off. You can just put the weapon back on your hotbar instead of having it controlled by the little turret.

 

[Knack]

Also, it's hardly an issue if it gets blown off. You can just put the weapon back on your hotbar instead of having it controlled by the little turret.

You would at least have to reconnect the core with the weapon computer, and then, where would be the output of your weapon?
Sure all doable.
Maybe the weapon modules should just blow off inside your ship or at least the weapon computers.