About faction points.

[pod11]

I have a question about faction points, and would like to start discusion about these, to know what others think about the mechanic.

1) question: how big home base is planned to be maximally for a single player to remain untouchable?

2) my opinion on subject:

I think there simply should NOT be a mechanic making home bases untouchable.
Bases should be strongly fortified by players and THIS should be the means keeping enemies away.
Risk of being raided and destroyed by enemy would be encuragement for bigger factions to arise.

I mean base would be built by many players, making it strong with many turrets making it hard to destroy by fewer players.
Building effective defenses would be entertaining in its own way with base defense battles.
If faction can have untouchable stronghold with factories why bother making any defenses?Or big for that matter.

 

[therimmer96]

This system is still in early development. The more precise balancing is decide on closer to the release, for example, the new weapon system is being balanced as we speak, with about a week or 2 left before the release

 

[Megacrafter127]

a mechanic making home bases untouchable

little sidefact: most homebases aren't untouchable because tons of ships are parked in free space around them. I have yet to see a base of a (currently) big faction, that has enough docking space for all their ships, that are there frequently.

 

[pod11]

I know what you are talking about, and its true that often not all in base is unkilable, but unkillable turrets , and no information about what is actioly killable, is enough to make make invading others bases pointless, and i think its simply wrong.

Another thing i'd want to point out is that if there is a mechaninc making stuff immune, there should also be ways to tell what is immune before atacking it.

 

[therimmer96]

I know what you are talking about, and its true that often not all in base is unkilable, but unkillable turrets , and no information about what is actioly killable, is enough to make make invading others bases pointless, and i think its simply wrong.

Another thing i'd want to point out is that if there is a mechaninc making stuff immune, there should also be ways to tell what is immune before atacking it.

If you are attacking someones base, you probably got the sector from the faction hub, and that only shows the sectors of invulnerable bases. That is what tells you.

If you are attacking a faction base without knowing whose it is, or if it even is a faction base, you're the reason the system has to be there.

 

[Creeper__God]

go in to your nav menu, go to filter, then make sure the docked box is empty. anything that shows up in your nav (besides the station its self) is killable.

 

[pod11]

If you are attacking someones base, you probably got the sector from the faction hub, and that only shows the sectors of invulnerable bases. That is what tells you.

If you are attacking a faction base without knowing whose it is, or if it even is a faction base, you're the reason the system has to be there.

No, im reason why bases have turrets, and Ai ships defending it.
There is absolutely no reason why FACTION base would not be able to defend itself form individual pirate.
immunity is taking away a hudge portion of potential pvp expecience there could be in this game.
If you want PvE or restricted pvp, there will be many servers with different rules afterall, making this immunity optional per server is a good solution now that i think about it.

 

[therimmer96]

The issue is that people spend weeks building an awesomely beautiful base, and then some troll 12 year old flies a cloaker ship through the station as it loads, past the defenses, and starts shooting it up. That is why there is invulnerability. Otherwise weeks and potentially months of work is thrown away by some prick who is only there to cause trouble.

 

[pod11]

If someone is able to to get past your defenses and destroy everything in a ship smal enough to be perma cloaked, these are just crappy defenses, and you deserve to loose that base.

PvP needs something to fight over, and bases would be good thing for that.
Raiding and sacking base would be good ignition point for wars to break out.
I understand you may want a pve version of the game, and many other players do, but its a seperate thing.
If you want engaging diplomacy and factions interactions , in fact if you want to have growing factions at all , you need to create danger, and potential of conflict first.

If you don't want pvp afaik you may already turn if off and play on carebear servers.Besides you have that in minecraft already.

You can design base so that its protected everywhere, and all it takes to stop someone from geting inside it without fighting is door.
especialy with new logic systems, you have so many options to make even interior defended.

 

[kiwionthemoon]

If someone is able to to get past your defenses and destroy everything in a ship smal enough to be perma cloaked, these are just crappy defenses, and you deserve to loose that base.

PvP needs something to fight over, and bases would be good thing for that.
Raiding and sacking base would be good ignition point for wars to break out.
I understand you may want a pve version of the game, and many other players do, but its a seperate thing.
If you want engaging diplomacy and factions interactions , in fact if you want to have growing factions at all , you need to create danger, and potential of conflict first.

If you don't want pvp afaik you may already turn if off and play on carebear servers.Besides you have that in minecraft already.

You can design base so that its protected everywhere, and all it takes to stop someone from geting inside it without fighting is door.
especialy with new logic systems, you have so many options to make even interior defended.

Somebody builds a base, they log off, they log on. Base is blown up. That is what you are trying to tell us. No matter how much defences you have, they will get destroyed by bigger ships, the turrets will be blown up, and shields will run out eventualy. This may sound fair, and it can be, but rarely is.
From what i can gather, many factions with invunerable bases have little actual players, which will limit the size of their invunerable base. this will mean the will have to have satelite facilities (such as factories and docks) which can be destroyed, but a faction isnt taken out overnight simply because they were not there.

 

[pod11]

Factions are small becouse of this ridicolous godlike mode. there is no reason for grouping up and building big well defended bases if there is no threat. You are mixing cause with result.

Right now there are only these carebear games on the market with no open pvp and free looting, but im 30 yo, i used to play mmo and MUD games when market was just starting.

Originaly these games had slow progresion and open unforgiving pvp with alot to loose.
Belive it or no but there was alot less griefing in those, becouse community had means for self-regulating by killling and looting harmfull individuals.
When someone was annoyance he was getting hunted down, and 12yolds that you are so scared off have no patience to build power and allies at all.
Usualy they were weak which resulted in many deaths- their deaths when they annoyed someone.

Realy griefing is present in modern games, becouse players have no means of fighting that off.

 

[Megacrafter127]

The problem with that is, that these mmos you were playing likely were fully developed games, while this is still early alpha. Features and weapons can still drastically change, resulting in an update obliterating the defense of even the best possible base. besides that, currently it isn't hard to build oneself up in SM. you can build your ships in singleplayer, and then just need enough credits on a server to spawn that very ship in. Yes, I know it is possible to disable that, but tell me one big server, that has blueprints disabled.

 

[pod11]

There is no mmo on market righ now in which you can loose/gain something valuable in pvp, you can only bnefit no matter how stupid you play.
Im seriously sick of this carebear attitude, i'd want something different.

 

[MrNature72]

Go play Dark Souls II with online activated.

 

[therimmer96]

There is no mmo on market righ now in which you can loose/gain something valuable in pvp, you can only bnefit no matter how stupid you play.

EVE online

 

[pod11]

in eve you just pay insurance and yo uare safe, besides noone flies around in valuable ships anyway, skirmish is in smal ships, or bigger ones when account is old enough to make it not a big loss.

And aditionaly.
Eve is less forgiving then other modern games. and pvp/ stealing is less restricted than in other games.
Remind me what is eve known for?
ADULT/ good community.
How does that relate to you being concerned about 12 yolds griefers if you make pvp less restricted here?

 

[pod11]

One more thing i want to clarify and its worth a seperate post.

If Starmade creates similar economy / pvp experience to eve that would be very good.
Null sec controling/ economy in eve is alot of fun. these null sec territories are reason for diplomacy and combat.In starmade it could be bases and trritorial control if there was anything to get for controling a teritory.

 

[therimmer96]

I dont play EVE, I just know that it is possible to loose things of real value in it, an MMO, rendering your previous post which I quoted moot

 

[Zeno9141]

I mean base would be built by many players, making it strong with many turrets making it hard to destroy by fewer players.

No. One can easily enough build a weapons platform on his/her own when the faction would be offline, and raid it. And that would most presumably be the destruction of a masterpiece of months work. I am an aesthetic builder, and I would be in tears if my homebase were to be snuck up upon, and destroyed by the ones who don't have any dignity.

 

[pod11]

1 or even a couple of invaders overpowering multiple builders of a base?
turrets work when player is offline don't they?
where can you place bigger weapons/turrets? on a base, or a ship that has to move around with those?

As i mentioned earlier, all it would do is players grouping more often, and dedicating more efforts in building functional defenses.
Just becouse they dont do it now doesn't mean its not possible. they simply don't have to.