Control chairs:a replacement for ship cores to help solve core drilling w/out abstract ship health.

[Vyor]

Another system that could be reworked slightly (probably via tying access-restriction to the computer/AI systems rather than what the player uses to control the ship).

But if there is no one on the ship is it dead?

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

But if there is no one on the ship is it dead?

Basically, my idea is that if you kill the pilot, it's exactly like if in the current system the pilot got out of the core and then died immediately. There would be no way of completely killing ships by taking out one block, but you would probably want to kill the pilot first in most situations, and it wouldn't matter on ships without turrets or active AI (killing pilot there would be equivalent to coring, just without an overheat).

 

[Vyor]

Basically, my idea is that if you kill the pilot, it's exactly like if in the current system the pilot got out of the core and then died immediately. There would be no way of completely killing ships by taking out one block, but you would probably want to kill the pilot first in most situations, and it wouldn't matter on ships without turrets or active AI (killing pilot there would be equivalent to coring, just without an overheat).

no, as in I am offline... is the ship dead? I would hope not.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

no, as in I am offline... is the ship dead? I would hope not.

I think you are referring to whether the ship has faction applied. Yes, it would, unless the faction module (or some other block like an "AI core") were destroyed or removed (hey, some people might foolishly lay down a faction permission block allowing access for everyone to a build block!). In the case of having to destroy the faction module itself, it would be a lot like how stations work:you can't really kill them, so in order to defaction them, you need to shoot off the faction module.

 

[Vyor]

I think you are referring to whether the ship has faction applied. Yes, it would, unless the faction module (or some other block like an "AI core") were destroyed or removed (hey, some people might foolishly lay down a faction permission block allowing access for everyone to a build block!). In the case of having to destroy the faction module itself, it would be a lot like how stations work:you can't really kill them, so in order to defaction them, you need to shoot off the faction module.

Still not sure how this would prevent drilling... I prefer the ship health system(which isn't that abstract).

 

[Ithirahad]

Still not sure how this would prevent drilling...

Simple - you can't just shoot for the diamond.

 

[Vyor]

Simple - you can't just shoot for the diamond.

... Ok, so no diamond... Tell me, how does that work for missiles?

 

[Bannta]

instead of a chair...why not a backup core. Watching lots of space movies there was always a auxiliary bridge....why not a aux core?

Maybe having two core, one mark as primary core and one mark as auxiliary/secondary core could allow you to toggle one as primary which would allow you to re-position the auxiliary core. Could solve a bunch of issue for core placement and pre-spec knowledge of where to shoot.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

instead of a chair...why not a backup core. Watching lots of space movies there was always a auxiliary bridge....why not a aux core?

Maybe having two core, one mark as primary core and one mark as auxiliary/secondary core could allow you to toggle one as primary which would allow you to re-position the auxiliary core. Could solve a bunch of issue for core placement and pre-spec knowledge of where to shoot.

Moving the actual core creates problems because all blocks use the core as a reference point for position purposes.

As to the diamonds issue, I think that there would still be a diamond (one for each control chair, actually), but of a different kind that's hidden by default. You could try unhiding the chair diamonds and drilling, but it would mean keeping up with the player as they swap chairs. It would be more practical to either destroy the backup chairs until there's nowhere left to run or take out some other stuff (like the AI core, rendering their turrets useless) and grapple/disable the ship before taking out the pilot.

 

[Ithirahad]

... Ok, so no diamond... Tell me, how does that work for missiles?

They'll just blindly fly at the ship's center of mass, or a random block on the ship.

 

[Bannta]

Moving the actual core creates problems because all blocks use the core as a reference point for position purposes.
.

yes i know and heard that a million time(like a radio song)... that why there is alway a primary core set and all the block can reference that position where as you can lift the secondary core and reposition it. Than toggle it back to primary if you want.

as for the chair...I'm starting to like the idea of seeing a peep in there while the ship is being piloted. If this idea get adopted i would like to see a f key assign to allow yourself to look around from that chair.

 

[Vyor]

They'll just blindly fly at the ship's center of mass, or a random block on the ship.

So why would I use tracking missiles?

 

[Tomino_sama]

Put simply, I think the abstract ship health idea is silly.
EDIT:I'd add a poll such as "Do you think this is a good idea? Yes, maybe, no, other (please post).", but there's no way to now that the thread has been created.

If you mean a block or group of blocks that looks like a chair, I am strongly opposed to this.
If you mean a transparent block which can be activated when pushing R (to sit down), I support this.

Regarding Ship Health a system was discussed that uses the combined Health of all blocks to determine the HP. [in Q&A]
Regarding a control Chairs, Space Engineers already did it. I don't think we need to emulate anything they are doing right now. I'm happier with the current situation, which is reversed.

Also The "Mobius Chairs" which many players have begun adopting lately, have all the functionality you wanted now, except for the actual HP parts, which require game changes.

 

[Lecic]

How is ship health abstract? You have hull plating, your ship has more hull power and is less likely to lose structural support and lose material when hit.

This doesn't solve core drilling at all. It just makes it so you have more than one core. Also, how would turrets and very small ships (like little item transport skids made a a core, two power, 3 plex storages, and 3 engines) work with this system?

 

[Ithirahad]

Regarding a control Chairs, Space Engineers already did it. I don't think we need to emulate anything they are doing right now. I'm happier with the current situation, which is reversed.

Space Engineers did it because it looks good and makes sense, unlike players being magically sucked inside 1x1x1 cubes. Who gives a damn if someone else happens to have done it first? That's like saying that Starmade shouldn't have dirt or rock because it was in Minecraft, or it shouldn't have hull because Space Engineers did that.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

I think, for the most part, Space Engineers makes more logical choices in ship design. StarMade may, by necessity, use more simple designs to achieve better performance (SE has 2-meter long large ship blocks and it still has trouble handling much more than one medium ship in even singleplayer), but it doesn't need to miss out on things like pilot access that isn't tied directly to the ship's center of rotation.
I'd prefer actual chair models (there's a lot you can do with wedges and such, but ultimately most chairs look clunky and huge), but a block that just makes you sit and lets you access the ship would be fine too.

As for the abstract health: It is abstracted, by the very definition of the word. It's abstracting the idea of destroying important parts of the ship into just destroying X% of the ship's mass.
Destroying your ship's entire wing could kill it, even if none of the internals were destroyed. The planned system doesn't take into account at all where a hull block is placed or what's near it or what systems are still online, just how much of the ship was destroyed.

 

[Vyor]

How is ship health abstract? You have hull plating, your ship has more hull power and is less likely to lose structural support and loose material when hit.

Agreed.

This doesn't solve core drilling at all. It just makes it so you have more than one core. Also, how would turrets and very small ships (like little item transport skids made a a core, two power, 3 plex storages, and 3 engines) work with this system?

I was wondering this myself...

 

[max stripe]

You'd want to switch when shields are just about to go down, so that just as the enemy starts hitting hull, you're in a completely different spot (and possibly heading towards the escape pod). The key here is that on one end there's downright OP and on the other there's utterly useless. Unless there's some pretty severe discontinuities (or problems with ship size scaling that can't be addressed properly), perfect balance must lie somewhere between those two endpoints.
It most certainly isn't a complete solution to coring. The hitpoint system isn't either (shields would still be much, much more effective than hull and once shields drop it would just mean they have to fire that much longer to reduce hitpoints to 0 rather than pretty much instantly taking a ship out by hitting the core). Nothing alone is. To solve the drilling problem, we also need to address the inherent problem of scalability of shields vs. hull for protection. This would help, and I feel it's a more logical approach to ship/player death than the hitpoint system.

its easier to just arrow key to an escape pod if u wanted too..
but y would u when u have jumpdrive? sheilds going down no problem ill just push this button here and get out in a flash

 

[Megacrafter127]

its easier to just arrow key to an escape pod if u wanted too..
but y would u when u have jumpdrive? sheilds going down no problem ill just push this button here and get out in a flash

AFAIK a jump drive looses ALL charge, when something hits the ship to deal damage.

 

[FunnyBunny14]

What? Someone resurrected this thread from the dead? Didn't anyone see the last post before @max stripe was from may 21?
Anyways, the core drilling is going to be fixed. So can we please let this thread die in peace?