THE Comprehensive Suggestion - The most thorough, thought out, and longest suggestion to date

[ObiShawnKenobi]

Comprehensive post turned to incompetent arguments.

 

[War Dog]

Materials, Credits, an New Factories

I'm curious, why add entirely new components when other components with uses very similar to what you are proposing already exist?
Ore -> Materials -> Blocks. No need to emboss it.

I am against things like components and relics; that's adding needlessly arbitrary ship power. Let's keep that solely in the ship's design please.

The primary cause of inflation, as you said yourself, is the abundance of credits (On servers that raise shop money), so wouldn't increasing the difficulty of obtaining credits be the more prudent action? If producing high level ores for credits is the issue; just remove the ability to produce them (like the popup says but doesn't actually do).

Asteroid Fields & Larger Planets/Sectors

I am against larger sectors/planets. We should be pushing against gigantism; at least until the game is optimized a bit more. Not everyone has the benefit of running Quantum Entanglement Modules.

Moons, asteroid/planet types, and more space objects should be added though; the game is just far too empty. Disc planets are supposedly changed in the next update.

I'm rather fond of having a centralized galaxy. Instead of having huge galaxies, condense said "galaxies" into solar systems and add the suggested anomalies to those solar systems. And yes, make solar systems larger. It's rather odd having planets only 10-20km apart...

In short: Spread out planets, add more kinds of stuff to solar systems; keep genitalia at manageable sizes. And please, Do get rid of that re-orientation garbage.

New “basic” block types

If only balance were as simple as adding more hull types...

SYSTEM BASED WARFARE

I suggest a compromise here:
1. Computers can be locked onto and shot out, but no need for the HP meddling for individual systems.
2. The core cannot be locked onto until all other systems are disabled/destroyed or the pilot leaves the ship.

That should be enough to eliminate core drilling.

Jammers will change in the next version so the suggestion here is mostly unneeded.
Allowing cloaking detection via block would pretty much nullify the already severely limited utility of cloaking wouldn't it? Especially with the new 145 p/b/s

Autopilot would be nice yes; or at least a cruise control button for cool thrust.

AI STUFF AND JUNK

AI cannot operate at all unless players are in a nearby sector. NOTHING operates unless players are in a nearby sector. This would require a massive overhaul of basic features. And lag, lots of it.

Allowing a single player to control an entire fleet would be catastrophic to both game balance and factions. The game already suffers from massive trust issues between faction members. And why would I bother recruiting people to fight my battles when I could simply outspend my enemies?

Plus, Starmade isn't a top-down RTS.

As for turrets and fighter control. KISS.
AI settings:
Missile: For suicide bombing.
Free Ship
Turret
Carrier-Based Ship

Target settings:
My Target
Any
Switch: By pressing a button, the turret(s) swaps between Any and My Target.

Aggressiveness settings:
Enemy Only
Non-Ally + Non-Faction Only
Non-Faction Only

Special Equipment Settings:
Use Radar Jammer Y/N

Carrier Based Ship settings
AutoUndock on target acquisition Y/N
Maximum range from carrier: After it hits this range, the ship tries to head back to redock.
Add a "All ships dock" command and that's it.

 

[MrNature72]

Did you even read his comment, have you ever heard of constructive criticism? Have you ever considered summarizing it so people WILL read it? Or are you just going to ignore all the constructive criticism and call people flamers? Seriously, look at people's reactions and think about it. Maybe people other than yourself are good enough to criticize you. This may be a new concept to such an important fellow like yourself.

It was not necessary to bring up the Lazarus; That's trying to drag Faction stuff into here. One half of a sentence was devoted to saying "broken it up more", the rest was pointless, along with the image.

Constructive criticism would fall along the lines of "here's how it should have been broken up", or so forth.

Although I appreciate you following him around and defending him loyally.

 

[MrNature72]

I'm curious, why add entirely new components when other components with uses very similar to what you are proposing already exist?
Ore -> Materials -> Blocks. No need to emboss it.

I am against things like components and relics; that's adding needlessly arbitrary ship power. Let's keep that solely in the ship's design please.

The primary cause of inflation, as you said yourself, is the abundance of credits (On servers that raise shop money), so wouldn't increasing the difficulty of obtaining credits be the more prudent action? If producing high level ores for credits is the issue; just remove the ability to produce them (like the popup says but doesn't actually do).


I am against larger sectors/planets. We should be pushing against gigantism; at least until the game is optimized a bit more. Not everyone has the benefit of running Quantum Entanglement Modules.

Moons, asteroid/planet types, and more space objects should be added though; the game is just far too empty. Disc planets are supposedly changed in the next update.

I'm rather fond of having a centralized galaxy. Instead of having huge galaxies, condense said "galaxies" into solar systems and add the suggested anomalies to those solar systems. And yes, make solar systems larger. It's rather odd having planets only 10-20km apart...

In short: Spread out planets, add more kinds of stuff to solar systems; keep genitalia at manageable sizes. And please, Do get rid of that re-orientation garbage.


If only balance were as simple as adding more hull types...


I suggest a compromise here:
1. Computers can be locked onto and shot out, but no need for the HP meddling for individual systems.
2. The core cannot be locked onto until all other systems are disabled/destroyed or the pilot leaves the ship.

That should be enough to eliminate core drilling.

Jammers will change in the next version so the suggestion here is mostly unneeded.
Allowing cloaking detection via block would pretty much nullify the already severely limited utility of cloaking wouldn't it? Especially with the new 145 p/b/s

Autopilot would be nice yes; or at least a cruise control button for cool thrust.


AI cannot operate at all unless players are in a nearby sector. NOTHING operates unless players are in a nearby sector. This would require a massive overhaul of basic features. And lag, lots of it.

Allowing a single player to control an entire fleet would be catastrophic to both game balance and factions. The game already suffers from massive trust issues between faction members. And why would I bother recruiting people to fight my battles when I could simply outspend my enemies?

Plus, Starmade isn't a top-down RTS.

As for turrets and fighter control. KISS.
AI settings:
Missile: For suicide bombing.
Free Ship
Turret
Carrier-Based Ship

Target settings:
My Target
Any
Switch: By pressing a button, the turret(s) swaps between Any and My Target.

Aggressiveness settings:
Enemy Only
Non-Ally + Non-Faction Only
Non-Faction Only

Special Equipment Settings:
Use Radar Jammer Y/N

Carrier Based Ship settings
AutoUndock on target acquisition Y/N
Maximum range from carrier: After it hits this range, the ship tries to head back to redock.
Add a "All ships dock" command and that's it.

You make some good points.

 

[CyberTao]

It was not necessary to bring up the Lazarus; That's trying to drag Faction stuff into here. One half of a sentence was devoted to saying "broken it up more", the rest was pointless, along with the image.

Constructive criticism would fall along the lines of "here's how it should have been broken up", or so forth.

Although I appreciate you following him around and defending him loyally.

That last bit could be considered Flame baiting itself Nature, do not think you are safe from the rules cause it is your own thread.

That aside, Construction Criticism doesnt not always mean "tell me how to do it better", but rather point out flaws and Draw attention to the weak points :u

Whats more, I think Ridik was more pointing at your lack with experience towards the mechanics you are suggesting to change, could be wrong though, but you did summon him here :p

 

[Zyrr]

This suggestion.

It's a comedic battleground.

Please, continue.

 

[Saba]

so.....I agree with plenty of it >.> and this is mah only post or I will end up joining the war...

 

[Incap]

Incap , Jaaskinal

Honestly, I'm kind of dissapointed everyone who didn't read it is just posting tl;dr.

If you don't have the time to read it, alright, that's perfectly fine. You don't have to try and berate it for its length.

That's cute. You think I'm here to live to your standards.

Let me say this...

Up until now, I've been polite. If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of blood and bone, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form , you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin.

I will open one of my six mouths and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

 

[MrNature72]

That's cute. You think I'm here to live to your standards.

Let me say this...

Up until now, I've been polite. If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of blood and bone, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form , you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin.

I will open one of my six mouths and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

 

[therimmer96]

I like the ideas in this post, and i think that some,like th sector and planet ones, should be added, but The rest i dont think are starmade, but rather a overhaul mod like IC2 for MC. It would be awesome if when starmade is modable, someone found this post and made it a reality, but it shouldn't be vanilla starmade

 

[MrFURB]

This thread has given me a newfound respect for War Dog.

He walks into a thread full of grown adults acting like they are mere children using Xbox Live to lash out. He doesn't join them. He doesn't even decide to leave. He sits down, he reads (presumably most) of the OP, and he leaves detailed feedback. The only detailed feedback so far. He disagrees with certain points but instead of saying something silly and ineffective like "this post is bad and you should feel bad" he instead states exactly why it wouldn't work and what possible fixes there might be to make it better in the long run.

We could use a lot more War Dog around here, and a lot less of... Whatever that was.

And just for the record, I agree with what therimmer96 said. While I don't believe this would mesh with the rest of Schema's vision of Starmade very well, it would be totally awesome to have it as a comprehensive mod. Imagine being a commander in a Star Wars: Empire at War or Homeworld battlefield, but instead of being stuck in the 3d strategy map you could back away from the holomap, look out a window, and see the battle that way. You could go out into battle yourself. You could see the factories on your bases working block by block to bolster your forces and your faction. You could meet with other commanders and battle through politics and assassination rather than warfare.
I think that MrNature's idea of commanding AI fleets would benefit from letting go of the limitations of having to fit within Starmade's base game, and instead come into it's own as an alternate Starmade made possible via mods.

 

[ltmauve]

have you not been paying attention to the dev builds, or were you simply too lazy to consider changing this to better reflect the new features of the game? with the new planets, weapons, and logic, you should consider revising your draft to better fit with how the game is moving.
I'm going to vote against your ore/factory suggestions.
Why? Because some ores can only be used to make low-value items, and some can only be used to make high-value items. This makes some ores worth less, and they are equally hard to store and mine. Instead, different L-values should determine the value of the ore.

Here is the counter-proposal.
Ores-these are the 8 types of L1-L5 blocks that, y'know, get the idea.
Terrain-solid blocks of dirt, rock, tentacles (not crystals)
Sprite-grass/plant/terrain sprites
Components: These are the proteins, bottles, and computer components (not paint)
Core ship blocks: weapon controllers, docking modules, cores, anything that you don't usually put 100 of on a ship, even if it's a titan.
Functional ship blocks: power, weapon blocks, thrust, enhancers, anything that usually scales with ship size.

L2-5 Ore+sprite=> Component.
Multiple terrian => basic hull
multiple basic hull + L1 ore (any) => hardened hull
two different components(L2-3) + basic hull => functional ship blocks
functional ship block + hardened hull + component(L4-5) => core ship block
sprite=> decorative sprites
sprite=> paint
terrain => decorative blocks

Each recipe is static, not randomly generated. In addition, each block's recipe has a time property, which is the time it takes one recipe cycle to execute (these are in intervals of five seconds or whatever). core ship blocks have the longest time. Also, get rid of recipe leveling, since it's such an OP mass-generator system.
Also, this system would follow conservation of cubatoms. However, the cubatom system would change slightly. First, blocks can have multiple of any type of cubatom they have. They can also have more than two types of cubatoms. Also, the 255 limit for cubatoms would be increased to 1000, simply because having blocks that are made of 20 of one type of cubatom makes the large capacity needed. Note: changing cubatoms using the factory system is not allowed. Converting cubatoms is a manual process that loses cubatoms, like now.

On world structure:
Larger sectors and planets: yes. Moons: Sure
Asteroid belts: If that means fewer asteroids elsewhere, yes
Galaxies: Well, if your galaxy is 2000km thick, it hardly makes getting to the boundaries easy.
Instead: Solar systems are adjacent to each other, in chains, with some clusters. Once you go outside the solar systems, you get the cool and dangerous stuff. Easier to get to once you want to, easy to avoid, understandable.

Fleets and AI: KISS is a good prinicple. @wardog The max range for a carrier should simply indicate how far the ships should go before stopping, not redocking. Redocking should only be done on command.

Systems: single blocks that occupy multiple spaces: why? part of the fun of starmade is that we put multiple blocks together to get a full system, not that we order our systems premade. The system could have a group health that has to be depleted first before getting into destroying individual blocks.
Also, the core should provide a small amount of "system" to everything, allowing small ships to not need systems at all.
I like the concept of systems, just have many problems with your implementation of the basic concept.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

I love the AI ideas. Yeah, this game might be about factions, but it is hard to get many people together that one can trust. And how are epic space battles possible if there are only 20 people per faction? Roundabout. So 20 ships per fleet, that might sound big, but all of them fighting in one spot might be a great spacebattle.. but meanwhile the rest of their territory is kinda defenceless. AI fleets, would love that. Factions with more people would still be stronger than individuals, since you need real people to command the AIs properly. One person can only handle to manage so many fleets and ships. Just imagine two AI fleets get into a battle at once! One person can't just manage two battles at two ends of a galaxy.

 

[zorozeenee]

I love the AI ideas. Yeah, this game might be about factions, but it is hard to get many people together that one can trust. And how are epic space battles possible if there are only 20 people per faction? Roundabout. So 20 ships per fleet, that might sound big, but all of them fighting in one spot might be a great spacebattle.. but meanwhile the rest of their territory is kinda defenceless. AI fleets, would love that. Factions with more people would still be stronger than individuals, since you need real people to command the AIs properly. One person can only handle to manage so many fleets and ships. Just imagine two AI fleets get into a battle at once! One person can't just manage two battles at two ends of a galaxy.

Once again ai doesnt work unless their is a player nearby...

 

[smellow]

I really like the idea about the planet size, the ai control and the credits. I have been playing starmade for some time now, even though I am new to the forms and I have to say I agree with the way you described how base and plaint war fair should be preformed. There have been many times where I have set out to build a base and start a big faction but I always just realize that stations are kind of like ships that cant move. Due to this I never follow through and just end up flying my ship around attacking people and pirates. If planits were like he said they were then there would be a REAL incentive to start a big faction and build a nice base because it would have obvious benefits.

Also the idea planits dwarfing huge ships sound amazing. The current planits seem pathetic and are easy to destroy. If we had massive ones they would feel like real big planits that have danger, value and base building opportunity in them.


I do not agree with flat top planits because I saw a video on this sight showing a sphere like planit that the devs made that looked much more fun then a half ball type of planit.

I also don't think you should have to select a type of ship to become before you make it. It would take away the creativity and ability to design ships that work how you want them to. Mabey just have the relic thing determin the basic function of the ship.

And btw it took me 10 minutes to read that post. It really is not to long to read.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

Once again ai doesnt work unless their is a player nearby...

That could be changed. Or even better! This would make players within a faction more useful! Could even explain it lore-wise. Without a commanding officer nearby (a player) the AI cannot function properly, due to lacking the order-giving instance. Except stationary defences and "guard dog" AI ships around a planet. Since those would start to defend their place as soon as enemy fleets with enemy players in them arrive. And since the they cannot send pure AI fleets, since without a human they don't work, there won't be any not-possible AI vs AI fights.

 

[zorozeenee]

That could be changed. Or even better! This would make players within a faction more useful! Could even explain it lore-wise. Without a commanding officer nearby (a player) the AI cannot function properly, due to lacking the order-giving instance. Except stationary defences and "guard dog" AI ships around a planet. Since those would start to defend their place as soon as enemy fleets with enemy players in them arrive. And since the they cannot send pure AI fleets, since without a human they don't work, there won't be any not-possible AI vs AI fights.

This all sounds cool and i wish it could happen, however the game is hardly stable and having that many ai loaded in different place will lag the server and it will crash.

 

[ridik_ulass]

That's cute. You think I'm here to live to your standards.

Let me say this...

Up until now, I've been polite. If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of blood and bone, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form , you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin.

I will open one of my six mouths and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

for those who don't get it

 

[whiterhino16]

You at least need a summary. I put it into Microsoft word and it's 21 and a half pages, which means its longer on a sheet of paper than some threads, just to put it into perspective. It seems like a good idea, but its way too long to keep my interest.

Put a summary at the top if you want replies, because most people will TL;DR it.

 

[Boba_Fett]

I'm rather fond of having a centralized galaxy. Instead of having huge galaxies, condense said "galaxies" into solar systems and add the suggested anomalies to those solar systems. And yes, make solar systems larger. It's rather odd having planets only 10-20km apart...

The one large, and somewhat flatter galaxy idea is great, a little more realism, plus you can still fly in whatever direction you like for battles (up to a certain point apparently). Makes getting lost in endless fields of awkwardly close planets and billions of shops that all look the same seem like an old antiquated idea. Also makes a galaxy map possible (holograms maybe one day) and then getting from point A to point B seems much more purposeful.

Also something from the first ginormous post about asteroids respawning, or ores respawning or something... either way new materials drifting in from an asteroid belt would be nice. That way a new player on the server doesn't have to fly for piles of time before he can find some untouched rocks. Just a good idea anyway.