Disabling Systems after HP % is Pointless, PART TWO!

[Aynslei]

I'm not asking for kitten mittens. I'm asking you to explain where I'm wrong with logical reasoning and deduction, or present evidence of the same. It's not hard.

You did not ask me a single question in your reply to me, so please point out what exact questions you have for me and I will answer them.

You are not in any position here to ask me what I think is wrong. YOU are the one coming here and saying this system is wrong and should be completely scrapped and removed. Yet you have failed to provide any of what you ask of me.

If this system that decides at what point a ship is "dead" is wrong, I expect you to prove that and provide both logical reasoning WHY and what methods could be provided to replace it.

Better yet the only part of this system you have been bitching about is boarding, so you get on topic, or start a new one.
Edit: Once you provide this information I will be happy to dissect it and tell you whats wrong.

 

[shadowulf]

I have read both threads, and I think you MAY have a valid point on systems shutting down if they are not damaged. HOWEVER, Without adding quite a bit of computation, further decreasing performance, I cannot think of a better way to establish a 'kill line' so AI and players maybe cease fire and salvage.

I believe FlyingDebris was saying that for the ship, he would spare the pilot.

Also, just saying a feature should be removed is just an opinion. Maybe think about how it could be changed to be viable to you before you ask a team to up and erase a feature months in the making. I am not against debates, but please do not insult the developers of a game who chose to release it in alpha so you could play and help further develope it.

 

[Mered4]

I have read both threads, and I think you MAY have a valid point on systems shutting down if they are not damaged. HOWEVER, Without adding quite a bit of computation, further decreasing performance, I cannot think of a better way to establish a 'kill line' so AI and players maybe cease fire and salvage.

I believe FlyingDebris was saying that for the ship, he would spare the pilot.

Also, just saying a feature should be removed is just an opinion. Maybe think about how it could be changed to be viable to you before you ask a team to up and erase a feature months in the making. I am not against debates, but please do not insult the developers of a game who chose to release it in alpha so you could play and help further develope it.

You're right. It is my opinion that the feature is simply there in an attempt to force boarding into the game and it should be removed because it serves no other purpose. There is no problem that it solves, nor is any gameplay variety introduced by this feature. Thus, my solution is to remove it and work on something more pressing, like rail bug fixes.

That's my opinion.

Is boarding a cool idea? Absolutely! Could it work in Starmade? Yeah! There's been some great suggestions by multiple people on the subject. Some of those suggestions even involve modifying existing game mechanics to encourage boarding. Great idea!

Now, I understand the roleplay side of things (as should we all.....). As for survival or large scale faction warfare, negotiating is something that doesn't make sense. You can make more resources elsewhere in less time.

I understand trying to send an actionable message to the other guys, but I'm skeptical. Wouldn't gutting an enemy ship and sending them home with it look more like a fear tactic than a gesture of peace? Interdictors would really help here, but we don't have those yet

 

[Lecic]

You're right. It is my opinion that the feature is simply there in an attempt to force boarding into the game and it should be removed because it serves no other purpose. There is no problem that it solves, nor is any gameplay variety introduced by this feature. Thus, my solution is to remove it and work on something more pressing, like rail bug fixes.

"Schema shouldn't add any groundwork for features. Features should be added in their complete state all at once or not at all."

He'd be spending more time removing a pair of items that probably took about an hour to add. Why would he remove a feature, simply because it isn't the most practical option for players at the moment? That's just stupid. This isn't how boarding is going to remain permanently. It's obviously just the groundwork for future boarding features. Why do you have such a stick up your ass about him spending an hour adding a feature that people are probably going to have a lot of fun with?

By the way, Schema spent a TON of time on rail fixes this update. They're significantly less buggy now.

 

[lilFishy]

Oh god.... "Why should I negotiate?" Negotiations are a part of the diplomacy, whic is as crutial to winning wars as batteling it with your opponent. A pilot who is in danger of loosing his big/medium ship might resort to treason and try to provide intel, he might try to difect to the oposing side. Do you even know how much can be achieved with "mere" words?

Going head first/all guns blazing/shoot first, dont ask questions are only viable as short term tactics. If you insist to much on them you might see yourself become hated or despised, and killing everyone just because you can is not a good thing (there is an example of a faction that went on to trying to destory everyone just for the sake of doing it, and last time i checked they are not holding it good)

Just because you would not negotiate does not mean I wold not too. I mght ask for mercy, (Keptick, do not read the next part :D) offer inside information, all depends if i am flying a puny miner, or one of my prized ship-gems.

 

[Aynslei]

You're right. It is my opinion that the feature is simply there in an attempt to force boarding into the game and it should be removed because it serves no other purpose. There is no problem that it solves, nor is any gameplay variety introduced by this feature. Thus, my solution is to remove it and work on something more pressing, like rail bug fixes.

That's my opinion.

Is boarding a cool idea? Absolutely! Could it work in Starmade? Yeah! There's been some great suggestions by multiple people on the subject. Some of those suggestions even involve modifying existing game mechanics to encourage boarding. Great idea!

Now, I understand the roleplay side of things (as should we all.....). As for survival or large scale faction warfare, negotiating is something that doesn't make sense. You can make more resources elsewhere in less time.

I understand trying to send an actionable message to the other guys, but I'm skeptical. Wouldn't gutting an enemy ship and sending them home with it look more like a fear tactic than a gesture of peace? Interdictors would really help here, but we don't have those yet

I find your actions in this thread horrendous and deplorable and only shows to reinforce how the vast majority of the community views Mushroom fleet.

If you have a problem with BOARDING make that the issue and topic of your post instead of trying to smear the HP system that does wonders in developing the direction of the game and combat. You seem to be under the impression that having a ship disabled FORCES you to board it, yet you still have every option to blow said disabled ship out of the sky and ignore boarding entirely.

Get lost, until you can tell me what is truly wrong with the HP system.

 

[Pacific_Jim]

After playing around with a few different sizes of ships I gotta say the debuff system seems to be more appropriate the bigger your ship is. On smaller ships it's not really noticeable, compared to power reactor lines breaking or your computers being destroyed, but on a ship where you have systems to spare it starts to make more sense. Without this in place bigger ships would basically feel like they go from fine to dead, missing out on the biggest benefit of the new system (namely, fights feel like slugfests now, when you go up against similar ships to yours performance wise you both start to feel it), this is because they both need to lose less systems percentage wise and, let's face it here, bigger ships just have more systems to spare, being more likely to have tons of backup weapons, tons of shields/power etc. When I tried a test battle I was taken down to about 80%ish HP, and after rebooting my ships performance was still pretty comparable to when it was good as new.

As fights go on (especially between equally scaled vessels) it should feel like there's some form of progression going on. Losing your systems and being forced to think on the fly about how to use what you have is part of the fun here now, and without a system like this in play big ships would miss out on it.

 

[Aynslei]

I will ask you one question OP, you state that this entire disabling system is useless.
How in the hell will an AI ship know if it is dead or should still be flying around?
(We all know core drilling is a shitty mechanic so don't even try going there.)

 

[Mered4]

Oh god.... "Why should I negotiate?" Negotiations are a part of the diplomacy, whic is as crutial to winning wars as batteling it with your opponent. A pilot who is in danger of loosing his big/medium ship might resort to treason and try to provide intel, he might try to difect to the oposing side. Do you even know how much can be achieved with "mere" words?

Going head first/all guns blazing/shoot first, dont ask questions are only viable as short term tactics. If you insist to much on them you might see yourself become hated or despised, and killing everyone just because you can is not a good thing (there is an example of a faction that went on to trying to destory everyone just for the sake of doing it, and last time i checked they are not holding it good)

Just because you would not negotiate does not mean I wold not too. I mght ask for mercy, (Keptick, do not read the next part :D) offer inside information, all depends if i am flying a puny miner, or one of my prized ship-gems.

I don't negotiate at the point of a gun. In any Starmade war, negotiation is the first option before declaring war and going after the enemy. After that, red is dead. And a pilot who does any of the things you just mentioned is not a pilot I want in my faction. I'd rather lose the ship because it can easily be replaced. And yes I do know the weight of words - I had to deal with the Imperium lying to my faction and leading us on for 2-3 months. That wasn't fun.

"Going head first/all guns blazing/shoot first, dont ask questions are only viable as short term tactics. "
As I said earlier, you are either in or you are out. There is no in between. I'm not suggesting you blow anyone out of the sky on sight - I'm saying that I expect you to know who your enemy is and how unrealistic it is to assume they will show mercy instead of blowing you to smithereens.

Your example faction are what we commonly refer to as trolls.
You might be the type of person who negotiates - that's understandable to a point. Realize, however, that it's one of the least effective options and is thus unlikely to be chosen by other pilots.

 

[Aynslei]

I don't negotiate at the point of a gun. In any Starmade war, negotiation is the first option before declaring war and going after the enemy. After that, red is dead. And a pilot who does any of the things you just mentioned is not a pilot I want in my faction. I'd rather lose the ship because it can easily be replaced. And yes I do know the weight of words - I had to deal with the Imperium lying to my faction and leading us on for 2-3 months. That wasn't fun.

"Going head first/all guns blazing/shoot first, dont ask questions are only viable as short term tactics. "
As I said earlier, you are either in or you are out. There is no in between. I'm not suggesting you blow anyone out of the sky on sight - I'm saying that I expect you to know who your enemy is and how unrealistic it is to assume they will show mercy instead of blowing you to smithereens.

Your example faction are what we commonly refer to as trolls.
You might be the type of person who negotiates - that's understandable to a point. Realize, however, that it's one of the least effective options and is unlikely to be chosen by other pilots.

Here we go, derailing the original topic because he has nothing proper to say on it, pretty sure this topic should be locked at this point.

 

[Mered4]

After playing around with a few different sizes of ships I gotta say the debuff system seems to be more appropriate the bigger your ship is. On smaller ships it's not really noticeable, compared to power reactor lines breaking or your computers being destroyed, but on a ship where you have systems to spare it starts to make more sense. Without this in place bigger ships would basically feel like they go from fine to dead, missing out on the biggest benefit of the new system (namely, fights feel like slugfests now, when you go up against similar ships to yours performance wise you both start to feel it), this is because they both need to lose less systems percentage wise and, let's face it here, bigger ships just have more systems to spare, being more likely to have tons of backup weapons, tons of shields/power etc. When I tried a test battle I was taken down to about 80%ish HP, and after rebooting my ships performance was still pretty comparable to when it was good as new.

As fights go on (especially between equally scaled vessels) it should feel like there's some form of progression going on. Losing your systems and being forced to think on the fly about how to use what you have is part of the fun here now, and without a system like this in play big ships would miss out on it.

I'm not qualified to say this is false because I don't have the experience necessary. Also, I don't want to downplay your legitimate experience with the game. That said, I'd rather wait and test this out more IF we were to use your line of reasoning. I understand where you are going with this.

However, we should keep removal on the table. The more options, the better.

Here we go, derailing the original topic because he has nothing proper to say on it, pretty sure this topic should be locked at this point.

I'm still debating the point - at which area did I go off topic?

This will be the last time I reply to one of your posts. You are either trolling or have yet to understand the past 12 pages of discussion.
Thank you.

 

[Aynslei]

I'm not qualified to say this is false - because I don't have the experience necessary. Also, I don't want to downplay your legitimate experience with the game. That said, I'd rather wait and test this out more IF we were to use your line of reasoning. We should, however, keep removal on the table. The more options, the better.

I'm still debating the point - at which area did I go off topic?

This will be the last time I reply to one of your posts. You are either trolling or have yet to understand the past 12 pages of discussion.
Thank you.

Come on now, first you say I didn't answer your questions. (To which I am still waiting to know which ones)
I want you to answer one question and that is all. (You wont see any more of me here should you answer.)

I will ask you one question OP, you state that this entire disabling system is useless.(How much more on topic can I be?)
How in the hell will an AI ship know if it is dead or should still be flying around?
(We all know core drilling is a shitty mechanic so don't even try going there.)

 

[Zaphord]

The funniest thing about all this Mered4, is that both of these threads (fantastic wastes of time BTW) could've been avoided with one simple change in your server config files;

USE_STRUCTURE_HP, this enables or disables the new HP system.

There's more details in this thread.
http://starmadedock.net/threads/0-19289-release-config-changes.8172/

So instead of making an ass off yourself, blaming the devs, and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you over as petty a thing as "I don't like this feature", maybe you should just turn the bloody feature off on whatever server you play on. If you can't, then start your own server or play single player, doesn't matter to me really, just quit moaning over it.

 

[lilFishy]

I don't negotiate at the point of a gun. In any Starmade war, negotiation is the first option before declaring war and going after the enemy. After that, red is dead. And a pilot who does any of the things you just mentioned is not a pilot I want in my faction. I'd rather lose the ship because it can easily be replaced. And yes I do know the weight of words - I had to deal with the Imperium lying to my faction and leading us on for 2-3 months. That wasn't fun.

"Going head first/all guns blazing/shoot first, dont ask questions are only viable as short term tactics. "
As I said earlier, you are either in or you are out. There is no in between. I'm not suggesting you blow anyone out of the sky on sight - I'm saying that I expect you to know who your enemy is and how unrealistic it is to assume they will show mercy instead of blowing you to smithereens.

Your example faction are what we commonly refer to as trolls.
You might be the type of person who negotiates - that's understandable to a point. Realize, however, that it's one of the least effective options and is unlikely to be chosen by other pilots.

The world is not black and white. There are no purely good and bad people. Some will behave like scum for one period of time, than calm down etc... The point is, there are those who are in, out, and those who are at midpoint.

This is your PERSONAL oppinion on a game part that is not included in your thread title.
Did you point out to a bug in the system? NO.
To a hole that can be exploited? No.

You are simply bashing this update because you do not like what has to offer.
That is not an argument you can make and stand behid it, that is a oppinion.

And regarding the examples, go to EE or SS and call Odium members trolls.... you are in for a good time (Who the hell is "we" in that sentence?)

And as a regard to your OP from which you have walk away so far, you would need a telescope to see your footprints, the HP system is ok.
It might need balancing and such small things, but it brought veriety to the game.
All of a sudden, sysem placing, double or even tripple space hull, titan size problem .... all of these things are addressed in this wonderfull update which you would love to see burning on the town square just because you do not like it and have no other viable argument.

 

[Mered4]

The funniest thing about all this Mered4, is that both of these threads (fantastic wastes of time BTW) could've been avoided with one simple change in your server config files;

USE_STRUCTURE_HP, this enables or disables the new HP system.

There's more details in this thread.
http://starmadedock.net/threads/0-19289-release-config-changes.8172/

So instead of making an ass off yourself, blaming the devs, and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you over as petty a thing as "I don't like this feature", maybe you should just turn the bloody feature off on whatever server you play on. If you can't, then start your own server or play single player, doesn't matter to me really, just quit moaning over it.

As I said in the previous thread to Criss, who suggested the exact same thing:
""Go make your own game" is not a valid answer to legitimate concerns."

 

[Zaphord]

As I said in the previous thread to Criss, who suggested the exact same thing:
""Go make your own game" is not a valid answer to legitimate concerns."

Yeah, read that part, and you still didn't make any valid point that I can see. More to the point; what "legitimate concerns"? You feel a feature should be removed because you don't agree with it? Personally, I've been waiting for just such an update to be implemented so I don't have to guess at what damage my ship has sustained after my shields are down. Maybe you're just too OP to have your shields dropped in the first place, but not all of us feel the need to be invincible to enjoy the game.

Seeing as you responded to my post in a matter of minutes, it seems you fully intend keep this nonsense going. I suspect an you have more fun trolling the forums that you do playing the game. I've read a lot of your posts in other parts of the forum and one thing remains consistent; you like to disturb the peace. You rely on various logical fallacies (Ad hominem attacks, strawman agruments, and moving the goalposts crops up allot) and don't really contribute anything towards the development of the game or the community other than pouring more fuel on the fires that are your forum posts.

 

[Aynslei]

Zaphord is my hero!

I will retract all negative things I have said and make a public apology the moment these legitimate concerns are given meat and valid answers.

 

[FlyingDebris]

Mered, you successfully derailed your own thread.

Twice.

 

[lilFishy]

Derailed?! Heck, that is an understatement...
The train was derailed, all of the wagons were lying beside the railroad, a tornado swept them away to the mistical land of empty arguments and time loss.
Too bad a thread cant be lock due to popular demand xD

 

[Aynslei]

I think people have finally stopped being upset about this and are now just sorta having fun with it.
Took me a while to figure out the punchline, but its a great joke if you get it.