Boy, another fuel and propulsion thread.

[Yrjosmiel]

How do I start this...? Say, these new propulsion systems must have another new system: Fuel.


So, how will this fuel system work? Well, it’s pretty simple (I guess?). You have this new block called “fuel storage”. You place the fuel in there and then the power reactors (I suggest renaming them to fuel reactors but oh well) will do their thing and make power (suggesting them to be renamed as “energy” but that’s no big deal). However, there will be a separate block that will refine the fuel. I don’t know what to call them, “fuel refinery” I guess?

However, chemical fuel will not be the only kind of energy source. There will also be stellar energy.


To harness stellar energy, a new block is to be added. This will be called a "stellar panel". You must be at least 8 sectors far from a star for them to work. Stellar energy does not require chemical fuel or the fuel storage. This disadvantage of this is that the farther you are from the star, assuming you are within 8 sectors, the energy you get decreases.


Lastly, nuclear energy. Nuclear energy is nearly similar to chemical fuel. You both place the blocks in the fuel storage and reactors do their thing. However, you will require nuclear reactors instead of fuel reactors. Nuclear energy has a high recharge rate but is expensive and, if the reactors are not covered with at least 2 layers of hull/armour, it will slowly damage everyone in the ship. Also, only with this kind of energy supply will you be able to use nuclear pulse propulsion


Now for the propulsion systems.

These different kinds of propulsion have advantages and disadvantages. For example, a stellar sail does not require any energy but, like the stellar panel, only works in a 8 sector radius.


Well, I don’t have introductions for this list of suggestions so here we go:


1. Stellar sails

Already explained in the previous sentences.


2. Ion thrusters

Similar to the thrusters we already have now. Any energy system may be used.


3. Nuclear pulse propulsion

You can only use this in pulses (well it’s already in the name) but will give enormous speed boost. Only nuclear energy can be used for this type of propulsion. Also the most expensive kind of propulsion when it comes to energy.


4. Rocket engines

The cheapest kind of propulsion. Does not consume energy from the fuel reactors but gets it straight from the fuel storage.

I ran out of ideas for other non-warp/jump propulsion systems. Feel free to add more.

 

[Blaza612]

I'm going to be honest, I don't like the fact that there is a limited fuel/power system suggested. One of the reason I love Starmade is because of this, you don't have to constantly worry about fuel or power, you simply plonk it on your ship, and you have it, having to worry about the two resources would over-complicate things in a bad way. However, I do like the idea of different propulsion systems, each with their own advantages/disadvantages, but those would be better when not having limited fuel/power. For example, I would have the conventional engines (rocket) take up less power, but will only work well when placed together in massive blocks. Making them almost useless for fighters, yet great for say cruisers. I would also add the Microwave Plasma Drive, uses microwaves bouncing off of virtual plasma particles to create thrust, it's a real thrust system which NASA is working on at the moment.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

to be honest i keep thinking your avatar is that old mascot for burger king.

having to worry about two resources

What's the other one?

 

[Yrjosmiel]

*bump*

 

[Valiant70]

http://starmadedock.net/threads/a-manifesto-on-fuel-balancing-and-various-play-styles.5130/
Here I have explained the impact of different kinds of fuel mechanics on faction interaction and different play styles. There's a lot to consider besides how you put a reactor together and how one ship gets its energy and fuel.

2. Ion thrusters

Similar to the thrusters we already have now. Any energy system may be used.

If they're going to be propellant-free they should be EM engines as ion engines use small amounts of propellant.

In all, I'm not sure I like having several kinds of ship fuel rather than one ubiquitous fuel because you'd have to pick the fuel to use BEFORE building a ship, which would make the ship impractical to use if circumstances made a specific energy source hard to get. Maybe there could be a type of fuel that could be produced with any power source and used in any ship. e.g. a station has chemical, nuclear, and stellar generation and uses whatever is available to produce a universal fuel (fuel gel? antimatter?) that any ship can use for fuel. In rare cases, universal fuel might be obtainable directly from the environment.

I don't think manufacturing universal fuel onboard ships or consuming universal fuel on stations would cause any problems for balancing, so that would also be a possibility. Maybe if the raw materials were easier to transport than universal fuel, it would offer an incentive to produce fuel onboard large ships, adding more design variety.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

because you'd have to pick the fuel to use BEFORE building a ship

Doesn't that suggest you to actually plan before building?

 

[Valiant70]

Doesn't that suggest you to actually plan before building?

No, it means that a specific ship is practical ONLY when a specific fuel source is plentiful. If my faction has a lot of antimatter for a few months and I build a ship that runs on antimatter, I don't want to have to refit that ship with fusion reactors when we find a ton of easy deuterium fuel and someone blows up the antimatter collectors.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

No, it means that a specific ship is practical ONLY when a specific fuel source is plentiful. If my faction has a lot of antimatter for a few months and I build a ship that runs on antimatter, I don't want to have to refit that ship with fusion reactors when we find a ton of easy deuterium fuel and someone blows up the antimatter collectors.

Then I'd suggest to make other ships which use other fuel systems.

 

[Valiant70]

Then I'd suggest to make other ships which use other fuel systems.

Do you have any idea how much extra complexity and mass it would add to put more than one power system on a ship? It would always have a disadvantage against a ship of the same mass with one type of power generation unless both of its power systems were fueled at the same time. The end result would be that you've built a ship that requires multiple types of fuel to run at peak performance, and that might be even worse. Now think about ALL of a faction's ships being that way. I don't like that idea at all.

Did I mention that multiple power systems might have power softcap exploit problems? They would't be very easy to solve either. You'd wind up with Titans containing three different reactors and consuming three kinds of fuels at once which is just... ugly gameplay-wise for lack of a better term. The only way to prevent that would be to apply a collective softcap across all types of power generation, which doesn't make a lot of sense either. You have one reactor, then when you install another one on the other end of the ship, the efficiency of the first one drops. WUT.

Gameplay-wise, I just don't like the idea of ships having to be built differently to use different fuel resources. Since it doesn't make a lot of sense to craft antimatter into deuterium or rocket fuel or vice-versa, I like the idea of being able to craft any fuel resource into one type of synthetic, univerally-usable fuel.

If ships had different kinds of reactors but they could all use universal fuel in addition to their normal fuel type, I'd be okay with that too. Universal fuel would just have a particular energy value in each type of reactor. Using a reactor's native fuel type would save time and energy processing it into universal fuel, leaving an advantage to using different fuels. However, if a faction were rich enough, they wouldn't care about the inefficiency and could reduce micro-management by just distributing universal fuel to all their ships, which would use whatever reactor type the shipwright preferred.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

I like the idea of being able to craft any fuel resource into one type of synthetic, univerally-usable fuel.

Synthetic fuel sounds nice, too.

 

[Blaza612]

What's the other one?

You stated that there would be limited fuel and power, the other one is the one that didn't come to your head immediately after me stating it in my reply.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

You stated that there would be limited fuel and power, the other one is the one that didn't come to your head immediately after me stating it in my reply.

Let me just clarify
If there's limited fuel, limited energy is sure to follow.


I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[Blaza612]

Let me just clarify
If there's limited fuel, limited energy is sure to follow.


I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Your signature picture is summing you up right now, go home, your drunk. :P

 

[Yrjosmiel]

Your signature picture is summing you up right now, go home, your drunk. :p

but i'm drunk at home

what now

 

[Blaza612]

Walk to the shops or something, then go home, because you're drunk. :P

 

[Yrjosmiel]

Walk to the shops or something, then go home, because you're drunk. :p

ok to be honest i'm still sober.

 

[Blaza612]

ok to be honest i'm still sober.

That is slightly problematic for the whole "go home you're drunk" joke.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

I love how this got buried.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

Guys?

 

[Yrjosmiel]

It's been a long time since we talked about this, you know.