Weapon Emitter Blocks

    Like what you see?

    • ya

    • nuh

    • weapon emitter blocks can't melt advanced armor

    • I don't swing that way, I'm a real man!


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    Ithirahad

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    Sure you can still build them but they become grossly ineffective because turrets are massive weakpoints, so why would you?
    This seems hypocritical, considering the situation for ships that wouldn't work nicely with immense guns sticking out of them.
    Other people basically said:
    Sure you can still build them, and they look great, but they become grossly ineffective because tiny turrets do nothing, so why would you?
    Furthermore, your turrets would be far less susceptible to being wiped out by a single cannon bullet than someone's tiny little EvE replica laser turrets or weird alien ship broadside rapid missile things.
     

    Raisinbat

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    This seems hypocritical, considering the situation for ships that wouldn't work nicely with immense guns sticking out of them.
    Except it's a dumb mechanic.

    Yes, yes, I know. Alterintel already talked about this, and I realize that

    does not equal
    Little gun = little damage
    Big gun = big damage

    Furthermore, your turrets would be far less susceptible to being wiped out by a single cannon bullet than someone's tiny little EvE replica laser turrets or weird alien ship broadside rapid missile things.
    This is completely irrelevant; any well designed anti-hull weapon will knock either design out in seconds; difference being that large turrets require a much higher investment in hull and structure blocks that could otherwise help the main ship survive. Blocks that are lost when shot off. From OP's post the weapon could still be used as a regular weapon with he turret shot off. It's also a MUCH larger target, and weapon blocks are pretty high on the list of blocks you don't want shot off immediately in combat, not to mention difference in repair cost.
     

    Ithirahad

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    The weapon should not be usable as a regular weapon if the turret is destroyed (if anything, the computers on the main ship used for turrets should detonate), unless you decided to go into build mode midfight and link existing weapons to some of the modules you were using for turrets...
     

    sayerulz

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    Increased material cost for weapon blocks would create more difficulty for nubbers and not impose any kind of challenge for larger factions.
    Did you not read what I said? 30% more cost + 30% more effectiveness = same cost per DPS. And the idea that a 5 block turret should be able to fire a 20k damage cannon blast is aubsurd. Big guns should need big turrets.
     

    Edymnion

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    You keep talking about making more ships possible, but these ships can't exist with your stupid block
    Oh stop being melodramatic.

    "Oh I can't build big turrets if there is an option to not have giant turrets!"

    Yes you can. Yes you totally can. You can make as big of a shell around a single emitter block as you want. You could build a little room inside your turret with a transporter in it so that you could hop into your turret to take direct control when you wanted to with the space it would free up.

    Just because *YOU* are limited to "If the game doesn't force me to do it this way, then I won't do it at all" doesn't mean its a problem for anyone else.

    You can build big turrets with the option being there for smaller ones. We can't build small ones that are worth a damn at all.

    You have options, we don't. Get over your privilege.
     

    madman Captain

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    Now I have been thinking for a while and maybe a Compromise found that make the most of you happy.

    The Weapon Emitter Block, maybe we should rename it in "Tower Resizer Block" for this idea , that simply absorb the whole blocks that would make the tower to large.
    With all the mass and energy cost, which would have a large tower.

    So it does not matter how big the tower and everyone can build what he wants, maybe with a small advantage in the durability of the large towers because they are easier to hit.

    And before anyone cries, that is an idea, not a perfect feature!

    Oh, I like big towers as well as small towers, and a powerful weapon should be in a big tower. But as long as strong towers have not an acceptable size, well-designed ships will always play like guns or rocket launchers and not like battleships that fire their mighty broadsides on each other.
     
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    But space ships are not battleships. We often design them that way, but in reality a space ship is a hybrid submarine/airplane, and thats not even a very good comparison. Wile you can mount guns in turrets, those turrets will never be as powerful as the spinal mounted weapon on the main ship, nor should they be. Where Turrets come into there own are when they are mounted on a ship so big it takes them a day and a half to turn round.
     

    madman Captain

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    1. THIS IS A GAME!! DONT TALK ABOUT REALISTIC.
    I want an authentic feeling of an Battle and not an "(pseudo) realistic" bullshit.
    (The Space Battle scenes from Star Wars III and Star Wars VI feels authentic engough for me)

    2. And Airplanes and submarins are realy a bad comparsion. An object with more than 200 meters in length does not react as an airplane, but
    rather like a rock or oil tanker.

    3. I want to enjoy the fight, but I cant do this with Micro Death Stars as an opponent.

    4. It calls Space SHIP and not Space Jet, so I want a Space SHIP
     

    Raisinbat

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    "Oh I can't build big turrets if there is an option to not have giant turrets!"

    Yes you can. Yes you totally can. You can make as big of a shell around a single emitter block as you want. You could build a little room inside your turret with a transporter in it so that you could hop into your turret to take direct control when you wanted to with the space it would free up.
    And you can make small turrets now. You totally can. You can make a core, docker bobby, cannon computer and cannon block turret and it'll be as tiny as you want.

    This is about mechanical complexity. You want your design to not affect your ships performance is what this boils down to. Why not go further and just remove all block related stats; give all ships the same weapons, thrust and shields, wow now we can do whatever we want!

    Current setup there is a reason for small turrets and a reason for big turrets. With your idea there is no reason at all for having larger turrets, that's why it's worse.

    Just because *YOU* are limited to "If the game doesn't force me to do it this way, then I won't do it at all" doesn't mean its a problem for anyone else.
    In games people pick goals and work towards them; this is how the majority of players work, not just me; why do you think people used docked reactors?

    I'm guessing you're one of these bizzare roleplaying types i don't understand at all. I think you should be able to play the game and have fun in it, but roleplaying is not a substitute for gameplay and what you're asking for is taking away mechanics and replacing them with pretend mechanics.

    You can build big turrets with the option being there for smaller ones. We can't build small ones that are worth a damn at all.
    You keep dumping this crap into "you want" and "i want". What you're suggesting means less diversity in ship design; unless you want all ships to be the same greebly cigars littered with pistol turrets, and it doesn't sound like you do, it's simply a dumb sugestion.

    Could you post one of these fabled turrets of yours, because i'm starting to think you have no idea how to design ships...

    You have options, we don't.
    We have exactly the same options; you just don't want your choice to have consequences.

    Get over your privilege.
    lol
     

    Edymnion

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    We have exactly the same options; you just don't want your choice to have consequences.
    No, we can make super low profile hidden turrets.

    It just requires us to use 10x as much space for a purely aesthetic reason.

    You like the aesthetics of big visible cannons. Not all ships look good that way.

    You talk about it like its a case of not wanting to spend the space or the blocks. A remote emitter block ends up using MORE blocks that actually matter to make the turret functional. Nobody is saying that smaller visible turrets should mean less complexity or less blocks or anything else, it just means "We don't want a big gawdy turret" and "We want a ship that still works using the same block counts".

    We CAN make them, but it means we have to sacrifice a ton of space to let it swivel around inside the hull, while you stick it all outside where it doesn't matter. We want sleek designs that still function, you want porcupines.

    Both are valid, only one is viable right now.
     

    Raisinbat

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    You like the aesthetics of big visible cannons. Not all ships look good that way.
    You're the one who wants aesthetics; I want mechanics! Big turrets are much more difficult to design a ship for; they require clearance for turning, sockets for the base limiting interior and mass enhancers to keep them moving. If you put the work into your design to get them working they're a huge asset, but why would you do this work if you can get the same outcome for free?

    You're asking for simplified ship design, plain and simple.

    You talk about it like its a case of not wanting to spend the space or the blocks. A remote emitter block ends up using MORE blocks that actually matter to make the turret functional.
    Emitters are blatantly cheaper because they don't require the space, which you're whining about, that requires more surface area and more hull. It's also, like i allready said, a much larger loss when they're shot off because the turret's mass does not contribute to the survival of the main hull.

    If you're claiming size isn't important look at overdrive effect:
    • 1/3rd the size
    • twice the energy cost
    and you want a 30x space reduction? Sure you still need the full sized weapon in the hull, but it doesn't add any extra cost there, and is protected from fire. Even if the weapon is disabled it's still more cushion for other systems, it's blatantly superior to the current turret design.

    Nobody is saying that smaller visible turrets should mean less complexity or less blocks or anything else, it just means "We don't want a big gawdy turret"
    Nobody says that because it's obvious. You can slap small turrets on a completely flat surface and they'll work just fine; obstructions are immediately obvious, they don't require any recessed slots to fit the base into. Do you seriously think AMS turrets are just as hard to make as ship to ship turrets?

    Your argument is still cosmetics above mechanics. You want smaller turrets because they look better, and you want the mechanical weakness taken away. That simultaneously removes the mechanical advantage of large turrets, which is why you wont see large turrets with this crap.

    We want a ship that still works using the same block counts
    Yeah fuck what blocks you're using and how they're placed, right? All ships with the same amount of blocks should be equal, right? Fuck your lemonade design.

    We CAN make them, but it means we have to sacrifice a ton of space to let it swivel around inside the hull, while you stick it all outside where it doesn't matter. We want sleek designs that still function, you want porcupines.
    Yes, that's the price you pay for having a large turret. You want high damage with firing arcs? Pay the toll.

    You're still ignoring the fucking reason this idea sucks: Big turrets are completely pointless with this crap; and don't say "just put more hull on it DURRRRR" it's among the dumbest shit i've ever read on this forum, and that's really impressive.

    Both are valid, only one is viable right now.
    As opposed to only one is viable with your change; not to mention the current use for small turrets is being removed since you want small turrets to do the work of small turrets AND big turrets. Small turrets = small damage, big turrets = big damage. Why is this so fucking hard to accept?

    You talk about it like its a case of not wanting to spend the space or the blocks.
    see:

    we have to sacrifice a ton of space to let it swivel around inside the hull
    So that IS what this is about.
     

    Edymnion

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    Seriously dude, you need to calm down before one of the mods does it for you. You are getting personal with your insults about all this, and we don't take too kindly to that kind of thing around here.

    Present your case, present counter arguments, but when it gets down to calling someone stupid because of their preferences, you've crossed the line.
     
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    Raisin's point is very clear. Why you guys whine about personal attacks? Quote me one please. He sure said it's stupid. And I also think it is.

    Turret mechanics are complex but allow full freedom already. I'd never want them bypassed by something as "dumb". It cannot be balanced by cost

    Edit: I also don't like very much madman's captain idea to make the turret impossible to detach (invulnerable like cores). My point is: it's also part of the design. some turrets can get lucky-shotted as soon as they're not protected by shields anymore. Some will be able to take huge damages and still fire to the last cannon block, with computers and docker buried deep in the ship. So I don't think it's a "flaw" that need to be fixed by other mechanics
     
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