Recognized User Programmable AI, via a grid system

    alterintel

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    So I saw a suggestions regarding putting logic blocks in a computer "grid" block to decrease the size of logic circuits and it reminded me of the old Play Station game that I used to play called Carnage Heart. Basically the player designs there own hardware and software for thier mech armys. The player doesn't get direct control in combat. He can only watch is AI circuits in action. You get to control every aspect of how the AI will act and react to every situation. And it's realy simple for anybody to be able to learn the programming. This is how the Carnage Heart grid programming system works: ( you can see in the top left hand corner the mech useing the grid programming)


    Then I though wouldn't it be cool if Starmade incorporated a similar system to program the bobby AIs. A bobby AI could be replaced with an AI circuit chip. The circuit chips should be up-loadable, down-loadable, and shareable. This way players who aren't good a programming can still benefit from players who are.

    Thoughts?
     
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    So I saw a suggestions regarding putting logic blocks in a computer "grid" block to decrease the size of logic circuits and it reminded me of the old Play Station game that I used to play called Carnage Heart. Basically the player designs there own hardware and software for thier mech armys. The player doesn't get direct control in combat. He can only watch is AI circuits in action. You get to control every aspect of how the AI will act and react to every situation. And it's realy simple for anybody to be able to learn the programming. This is how the Carnage Heart grid programming system works: ( you can see in the top left hand corner the mech useing the grid programming)


    Then I though wouldn't it be cool if Starmade incorporated a similar system to program the bobby AIs.

    Thoughts?
    Finally! A reason to build drones.

    That's what's been keeping me from working with them because the Bobby AI doesn't have much to offer. I'd like a drone that can launch on command, find an prioritize targets, use it's weapons and systems effectively, and return to dock when it's done it's job.

    Programming repair drones or shield support drones would also make support ships that much better.
     
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    Well, that's a very interesting suggestion indeed. I'm familiar with this concept and remember it being used in some other games which I no longer can clearly recall. One I remeber were a snake battle, where you had to program a snake so that it would analyze it's environment and perform an action if the conditions withing that environment is met, but I was just as good at programming then as at quantum physics, so it didn't made much sense to me.

    I think it would work most definitely if proper operators would be provided. I just wonder if it would be possible to implement it in the descriptive enough manner for the majority of the player base to understand. Because, you know, some people are still cannot wrap their heads around the logic and some other mechanics. Personally I'd go all the way into it and would provide all the possible tutor for new players I could. I just wonder if it would be more practical to implement it as presented, rather than hardwire the same thing into the conventional AI behavior models and then making them interactive trough Fleet mechanics. More mature player base can obtain an extremely powerful tool which would give them a terrific advantage of having clusters of drones helping one-another to bring you down and then return to the carrier, while they can't even embrace the system enough to make any viable drone.

    Nevertheless, I'm at very least consider the given suggestion as very resourceful and thought-provoking. It definitely should be Recognized.
     
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    alterintel

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    I total agree with you this shouldn't be for all players. And for those who don't enjoy the block programming method well, you could just import it like you would a ship or something. So you could have players designing, ships, AI's, and logic servers... All up-loadable and shareable.
     
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    As I stated in another thread, their might be a problem if this was transferred to blueprints, because stored items do not copy into blueprints, rendering it inoperable and therefore useless. I believe that we must take in consideration that with current game mechanics, it really does not fit. I believe that if this could happen without having blueprint issues, this would be nice, but until then, I prefer to stick to block structures, because at the large scale, it really does not hurt the spacial situation.
     
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    Not liking a suggestion based on how the game currently functions is bad practice. There is always room for improvement and massive changes, if need be.

    I really like this suggestion. Reminds me of the Secret of Mana AI grid, but obviously a lot more powerful.



    Wasn't there an Armored Core game where you had to tweak your AC's AI and have it fight for you?
     
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    I agree with the statement of not using current mechanics as an excuse for not adding more to gameplay, but it has some problems with blueprints. I do wish for such a thing, it reminds me of a program I used in one of my classes years ago where you could use digital representations of real VLSI components to simulate a circuit. I'm up for the addition, but their must be some limitation, because otherwise it makes physical placement redundant.
     
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    I agree with the statement of not using current mechanics as an excuse for not adding more to gameplay, but it has some problems with blueprints. I do wish for such a thing, it reminds me of a program I used in one of my classes years ago where you could use digital representations of real VLSI components to simulate a circuit. I'm up for the addition, but their must be some limitation, because otherwise it makes physical placement redundant.
    Maybe, each "action circuit" takes resources to build, making large circuits that make intelligent AI very expensive?
    also, limit the actions that can be given to AI, to make it A) more simple and B) more difficult for very complex behaviors
     
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    I can see this being working like a UI that will detect logic, doors and lights on the ship in a 3D model of the ship and link stuff through that or have something that would be like a customizable logic block that is a condensed version of large circuits with multiple I/O ports. I believe the logic system current is better for what the game is, but I am open to the idea that a block would extend the current system, but not replace it, because with the current opinion, the grid system would make the physical blocks useless.
     
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    Perhaps for players who don't want to use this system, the BobbyAI could remain as it is, and a new AI block can be added, called the "ProgrammableAI" or something.
     

    alterintel

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    As I stated in another thread, their might be a problem if this was transferred to blueprints, because stored items do not copy into blueprints, rendering it inoperable and therefore useless. I believe that we must take in consideration that with current game mechanics, it really does not fit. I believe that if this could happen without having blueprint issues, this would be nice, but until then, I prefer to stick to block structures, because at the large scale, it really does not hurt the spacial situation.
    To this I like an idea that I read on a BDLS's Grid based logic computer post : http://starmadedock.net/threads/grid-based-logic-computer-system.7943/
    Instead of just a 2D grid, how about an instanced 3D space that pops up on a specialized fabricator block? Kind of like how shipyards are thought to be for building blueprints?

    Fabricator blocks make blank circuit board meta-items of varying capacity (the more of whatever resource is used for them, the larger the grid dimensions), and afterward they can be edited at the fabricator adding in logic blocks. Then those circuit boards can be accepted into a function block (maybe call it a logic controller instead because it would sound cooler?). Anything connected to or from the function block can be managed inside of the function block itself via a side menu and linked virtually.

    Would this be a suitable variant of BDLS' original idea in the OP? Logic meta items could allow for easy importing and exporting of logic systems as well. It would be cool to see competing standards between players and give a breather to the new players who can't into logic as well.
    Basically Viridis00 is describing an instanced 3D entity that can be attached to a ship or station much like a docked entity. Except the the instanced 3D entity would reside within one block on the mother ship.
     
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    Eventually I would like the AI in its own be able to interact with logic blocks and to have that programmable AI. I do think that maybe that the instanced 3D entity would be a viable solution to this, maybe saved in the way like copied objects.
     
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    Not liking a suggestion based on how the game currently functions is bad practice. There is always room for improvement and massive changes, if need be.

    I really like this suggestion. Reminds me of the Secret of Mana AI grid, but obviously a lot more powerful.

    The fact that you referenced Secret of Mana as a simple solution to AI control gets a GIANT seal of approval from me. The grid system in mana worked pretty well actually, and it seems to me it would transfer over to starmade AI without the need to make it super complicated. More and more I feel at home in this community lol. BRAVO SIR
     
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    The Carnage Heart (and Secret of Mana) AI suggestion is the greatest I have yet to see for Starmade.
    Carnage Heart was such an awesome game it definately needs a spiritual successor in the online world.
     

    StormWing0

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    This would be fun to see, just keep the default AI as a premade setup while changing from that setup would change how it functions. Though from the looks of this it'd require being able to save items to BPs. A simple solution to avoid storages with tons of items saved with this idea's items would be to make it so inventories like storages couldn't save stored items to BPs but this block could save the items it needed as long as they were where they needed to be. :) This could also be extended to NPC AIs as well. Say you wanted the NPCs to do specific tasks around a station or ship, you could do a complex command string for that as well. :)
     
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    The Carnage Heart (and Secret of Mana) AI suggestion is the greatest I have yet to see for Starmade.
    Carnage Heart was such an awesome game it definately needs a spiritual successor in the online world.
    I agree reusing good idea's is better then going with the norm.
     
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    is this like the lego mindstorms NXT programing (for those that know what that is)?
     
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    I seem to recall this being suggested a long time ago. Everyone thought it was a good idea then as well. Lets hope the devs take notice this time, because this is a killer idea.