Planned Uneven Resource Distribution and Density: Getting the Wheels Turning

[Admiral_Wolf]

When creating a new world, there should always be options, as there are in Minecraft. Planet size ranges, galaxy min./max radius, resource zone sizes, resource density, shop/NPC station rarity...

too true

 

[psteiner]

Perhaps we could have everyone span in more than one place rather than in the same shop (multiple spawn points which can be modified though config). Shops would be added where people would spawn automatically... What do you guys think?

 

[jayman38]

Perhaps we could have everyone span in more than one place rather than in the same shop (multiple spawn points which can be modified though config). Shops would be added where people would spawn automatically... What do you guys think?

I've always thought it would be a good idea to have different spawn areas in different places in the universe. Maybe in opposite corners of the starting galaxy, so that the spawns aren't -too- far apart. Maybe a player could pick their homeworld (or a homeworld could randomly pick new players?) and spawn on that homeworld or in a nearby station.

 

[Ithirahad]

I've always thought it would be a good idea to have different spawn areas in different places in the universe. Maybe in opposite corners of the starting galaxy, so that the spawns aren't -too- far apart. Maybe a player could pick their homeworld (or a homeworld could randomly pick new players?) and spawn on that homeworld or in a nearby station.

This would be good, actually. I certainly want starting up to be like this, at least as an option, but IDK how much other players support it.

 

[CyberTao]

I've always thought it would be a good idea to have different spawn areas in different places in the universe. Maybe in opposite corners of the starting galaxy, so that the spawns aren't -too- far apart. Maybe a player could pick their homeworld (or a homeworld could randomly pick new players?) and spawn on that homeworld or in a nearby station.

Could always have spawn be an closed sector with warpgates leading to the various starting worlds. Sounds like something meant more for servers than singleplayer.

 

[CaptainTaz]

I think 1k blocks per slot is a bit small, maybe 10-50k would be a better range. Otherwise you would have to spend lots of unnecessary time going back and forth between your storage when building.

 

[Snk]

I think 1k blocks per slot is a bit small, maybe 10-50k would be a better range. Otherwise you would have to spend lots of unnecessary time going back and forth between your storage when building.

When shipyards are implemented, couldn't we just make it so you use all of the blocks stored on the station?

 

[CyberTao]

When shipyards are implemented, couldn't we just make it so you use all of the blocks stored on the station?

I remember hearing something from a Dev about possibly being able to set up factories to build the blocks needed as well. Just load in resources and push build and it will do it's best.

Cal also mentioned something about a... preview buildmode or something? I forget the word, but it would let you build a ship without needing any blocks and save it to a blueprint to be constructed.

 

[Lecic]

This, combined with the other linked threads, is the best way to improve the economy aspect of this game. Otherwise, it'll continue to stagnate.

 

[aRottenKomquat]

This is a great idea. Only thing I would add is a few resources that are super-scarce, but can be used to create extremely valuable components. For example, a jump drive of exceptional range which allows you to cross half a galaxy in one jump, but requires an extremely rare mineral that is typically available in only a few adjacent systems per galaxy and not ever available from a shop. Or a similarly-scarce mineral which can be used to generate shield capacitors with 5x the normal storage. You get the idea. If there were 5 - 10 such resources and components/systems, players would HAVE to trade or fight to get the ones they don't have direct control over.

 

[ante185]

just for clarification, you want some resources to be more prevalent in some regions while others are in other regions, so you'd still be able to get most resources in an area but a select few would be highly common, right?

 

[Ithirahad]

just for clarification, you want some resources to be more prevalent in some regions while others are in other regions, so you'd still be able to get most resources in an area but a select few would be highly common, right?

That's the general idea. There might be an occasional exception (A system where there's Nocx and Parseen everywhere but no Zercaner or Macet to be found anywhere) but normally there should be a bit of everything somewhere. It just might take a considerable amount more hunting around than normal to find it.

 

[whooplaah]

In response to the OP,

I do like the idea and agree that resources are too plentiful, but I do not like the idea of having to cross the entire galaxy to find one I am missing. This would be particularly awful if the resource you need is the one to make a jump-drive. All resources must be available in all areas for gameplay purposes, though they don't all have to be plentiful or cheap. Having them in shops but more expensive - as was suggested - would help in this area but not if an area has many players that deplete shops.

I think that dividing the galaxy into 3x3x3 Systems of resource availability/deprivation would make it easy enough to find resources that players can play while still making them scarce enough that players would prefer to trade and specialize and build warp-gate networks. Then we'd get plenty of 'strategic locations' at the corners of each 3x3x3 System area.

 

[Valiant70]

Where's the "planned" tag!?

 

[Ithirahad]

Agreed. I'm... hoping that it's just that no dev has seen this. If it's seriously not planned (or at least something similar) then not to be whiny here but I'm gonna flip a sh... uh, table.

 

[whooplaah]

Ithirahad , Valiant70 , we should keep in mind a few things:

1. The developers are busy people. They have lives outside of Starmade, and I'm sure that after a long day of programming a game reading through comments and suggestions that amount to work they still have to do is probably not the best way to wind down and relax. I'd rather they work on the game than spend time reading through the forum, and I'm sure they'll see this thread eventually.

2. The game is in alpha. The goal of the game right now is testing. Sure we play it and design stuff and have fun, but we are doing so in a way that checks for bugs and incorporates newly released material. If resources were harder to get right now, it would make the testing aspect more difficult, less efficient. Even if this thread gets the 'Planned' tag, I'll bet that it'll be a while before game progression gets stretched and we have to really start hunting.

3. We should keep the thread on topic and productive so that it doesn't die. The more people we have commenting on ideas and offering suggestions the more likely Devs are to see it. Posting frustration doesn't help (even when other people agree with it).

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In line with that, here's another way that resources could be spread out:

Stars of different colors give an indication of the types of resources that spawn in that System. This will make remembering which areas of the galaxy map contain whatever the player is looking for. Blue stars have more blue/purple ores, red stars have more red/orange ores, white stars have white, and yellow stars have yellow and green. This could also be tied to planet atmosphere colors so that the rainbow of skittles effect we currently have either becomes less prominent or more useful.

If this is implemented, then it could give rise to more galactic features. Dwarf stars, giant stars, binary stars, star systems, systems with only 1 color of planet and 1 color of asteroid and systems with multiple.

 

[Ithirahad]

Ithirahad , Valiant70 , we should keep in mind a few things:

1. The developers are busy people. They have lives outside of Starmade, and I'm sure that after a long day of programming a game reading through comments and suggestions that amount to work they still have to do is probably not the best way to wind down and relax. I'd rather they work on the game than spend time reading through the forum, and I'm sure they'll see this thread eventually.

2. The game is in alpha. The goal of the game right now is testing. Sure we play it and design stuff and have fun, but we are doing so in a way that checks for bugs and incorporates newly released material. If resources were harder to get right now, it would make the testing aspect more difficult, less efficient. Even if this thread gets the 'Planned' tag, I'll bet that it'll be a while before game progression gets stretched and we have to really start hunting.

3. We should keep the thread on topic and productive so that it doesn't die. The more people we have commenting on ideas and offering suggestions the more likely Devs are to see it. Posting frustration doesn't help (even when other people agree with it).

Yeah, hence the whole "I'm hoping that it's just that the devs didn't see this" part to my post.

In line with that, here's another way that resources could be spread out:

Stars of different colors give an indication of the types of resources that spawn in that System. This will make remembering which areas of the galaxy map contain whatever the player is looking for. Blue stars have more blue/purple ores, red stars have more red/orange ores, white stars have white, and yellow stars have yellow and green. This could also be tied to planet atmosphere colors so that the rainbow of skittles effect we currently have either becomes less prominent or more useful.

If this is implemented, then it could give rise to more galactic features. Dwarf stars, giant stars, binary stars, star systems, systems with only 1 color of planet and 1 color of asteroid and systems with multiple.

That sounds kind of cool, but it would mean that for there to be regions of the galaxy with different distributions of resources (Rather than singly systems) areas of the galaxy would have to all have one star color, which would look really weird. However, perhaps the star colors could still mean something... Perhaps it could hint at the amount of minerals in each body in the system. Not entirely realistic, seeing as star size/heat/color isn't linked to metallicity, IIRC, and even if it is then there's no direct link between stellar metallicity and amount of terran planets. As such I doubt that it affects the mineral composition of said planets. But it works.

 

[Lecic]

In line with that, here's another way that resources could be spread out:

Stars of different colors give an indication of the types of resources that spawn in that System. This will make remembering which areas of the galaxy map contain whatever the player is looking for. Blue stars have more blue/purple ores, red stars have more red/orange ores, white stars have white, and yellow stars have yellow and green. This could also be tied to planet atmosphere colors so that the rainbow of skittles effect we currently have either becomes less prominent or more useful.

If this is implemented, then it could give rise to more galactic features. Dwarf stars, giant stars, binary stars, star systems, systems with only 1 color of planet and 1 color of asteroid and systems with multiple.

First things first, I feel the need to point this out every time I see someone suggest it. I don't blame you for not noticing because they're very rare, but... binary star systems already exist.

Ok, now that that's out of the way... this seems like a good way to do it, but you'd need to have clusters of similar star types for it to work like this, sooo... maybe it's done by the nebula color inside the star system instead? You enter a system cluster, see the nebula color, and know what kinds of ores it's most likely to have. This means people will still explore to find ores. I'd also like to see a way to scan a star system with scanners (from the galaxy map) and see what ores it has from somewhat far away (maybe 10 systems away)

 

[NeonSturm]

(note: I had no time reading the whole thread this time).

There is also really no incentive for PvP that outweighs how valuable ships are, either, turning the game into a giant (and rather boring) hugfest

Maybe mass shouldn't vanish into nowhere. I would love systems just rendered useless - far earlier than the combat is over.
There just needs to also be something that punishes the huge gains of piratery.

What I propose is that different regions of the galaxy have different amounts of different resources, and for some systems to have far higher amounts of minerals than others.

Players also have different preferences where to be: Nebulae, Biomes, ... perhaps that can also help to spread the resources.

For instance, one spiral arm might have lots of Parseen and Sapsun, needed for Shield-Rechargers, but almost none of the Rammet and Sertise needed for Shield-Capacitors. Due to this, inhabitants of that spiral arm will be forced to trade with areas that DO have Rammet and Sertise, or alternatively they'll have to conquer those areas so they can mine the resources themselves.

Such a system could naturally spawn more civilians than military forces. Or become corrupt due to the huge gain of one economy-tree compared to others.

The fix for this is simple: They offer more of resources and items available in the immediate area, and offer far, far less of items not found in the system or craftable with local resources.

Perhaps there should be more than 1 type:

1. offers what is locally produced.
2. offers what is NOT locally produced (much rarer)
3. trade hub for 1, near 2, maybe together with 2 - but not always.

Some species could hate trade hubs due to their nature to branch some money to personal accounts.
Others could serve the "greater good" and have more trade hubs next to each other for different materials.
Corrupt humans systems would probably only have 1 in some area - and smugglers from others.

 

[Ithirahad]

(note: I had no time reading the whole thread this time).

Maybe mass shouldn't vanish into nowhere. I would love systems just rendered useless - far earlier than the combat is over.

Planned; HP system.

There just needs to also be something that punishes the huge gains of piratery.

Already exists; arseholes get a bad reputation, they get declared as faction enemies, and people won't want to work with them, which can be a serious detriment in a universe like that which I described in the original post. (Where teamwork and cooperation are really important to getting anywhere in the game.)

Players also have different preferences where to be: Nebulae, Biomes, ... perhaps that can also help to spread the resources.

Yep. I didn't bother to mention that, but it should help as well. I, for instance, always go for a large desert planet under a yellow or double star as my base.

Such a system could naturally spawn more civilians than military forces. Or become corrupt due to the huge gain of one economy-tree compared to others.

Perhaps there should be more than 1 type:

1. offers what is locally produced.
2. offers what is NOT locally produced (much rarer)
3. trade hub for 1, near 2, maybe together with 2 - but not always.

Some species could hate trade hubs due to their nature to branch some money to personal accounts.
Others could serve the "greater good" and have more trade hubs next to each other for different materials.
Corrupt humans systems would probably only have 1 in some area - and smugglers from others.

...Umm, eh? I'm assuming you're talking about NPC stuff, but this topic mostly concerns modifications to the universe to encourage player interaction. Dynamic NPC mechanics are really complicated and are probably the subject for another topic entirely. One way or another, though, having different types of NPC factions and whatnot could be fit really nicely into the sort of universe I'm proposing, particularly if certain NPC hubs/sites only exist in two or three parts of a/the galaxy.